RCIA Candidates leaving mass and not getting graces of final blessing

[ConstantineTG]

Most likely that’s the case.

But as regards the appropriateness of dismissing Candidates, I bet the lack of consensus is due - as with most other issues - to poor catechesis in the past few decades. It does seem entirely inappropriate to dismiss them, but as I said, I’d like to think that at least some parishes have a good reason for dismissing both.

As I mentioned, it isn’t inappropriate because that is the tradition. While recent practices have omitted this tradition, it doesn’t mean that it still cannot be practiced.

 

[Nine_Two]

Perhaps in the Eastern churches, but in the Latin church as far as I know it was based on the profession of faith. Remember most people did not receive the Eucharist on a regular basis so belief in the articles of the creed was the definition of the faithful.

The lack of taking the Eucharist on a regular basis is something abnormal that crept into both the Eastern and Western Churches. At the time when this was actively enforced, taking them weekly was the norm, as far as I know.

As for it being the practice in the East, it is written into the Canons, I would assume it was practiced to at least a certain extent in the West. Several Canons of the Councils specify the length of time those accused of various heresies (who have repented) will not be allowed into the Liturgy of the Faithful - unless under threat of death.

 

[Nine_Two]

Noooo, catechumens were dismissed before the Creed for reasons of operational security.

Seriously. Read the transcripts of St. Cyril of Jerusalem’s RCIA classes right before Easter and right after.

First, there’s a warning not to let people who aren’t members of the Church read this work, and to keep your big fat mouth shut about it.

Then St. Cyril warns the catechumens not to be trying to get Catholic so you can get magical witchcraft powers or whatever other rumors were going around. (This was not long after Catholicism became legal.) Then he starts to reveal the amazing secret teachings of the Church, most of which the catechumens don’t know. Like the Creed, which they are solemnly warned not to go repeating to non-Christians.

All they know is the readings, basically.

That was true very early on, and today in the Orthodox Church the prayer immediately before Communion still contains the line “I will not reveal your mystery to your enemies,” but the practice continued long after Christianity was well established and legal (there are references to the practice in the Canons of the Councils). They only seem to have stopped when the parishes ran out of new adults to accept into the church.

 

[holyghost]

If RCIA people are seriously worried about not receiving the graces of the final blessing, they can always come early and catch the end of the previous Mass, or go to Mass on Saturday or another Mass on Sunday for the uninterrupted experience.

I think this sums it all up perfectly

 

[Veronica97]

Okay, I see that leaving Mass is part of the Church’s Tradition for Catechumens/Candidate and that is important to remember. I guess mainly what I didn’t like was being singled out, brought to the front of the church, and then marching out while everyone stared! But then I am shy so… maybe it doesn’t bother most people.

 

[Journey322]

Okay, I see that leaving Mass is part of the Church’s Tradition for Catechumens/Candidate and that is important to remember. I guess mainly what I didn’t like was being singled out, brought to the front of the church, and then marching out while everyone stared! But then I am shy so… maybe it doesn’t bother most people.

You’re not alone. That would have made me uncomfortable as well. Thankfully, I don’t believe the parish I attend participates in that practice. Our parish is a small one, so most people there are aware I am not catholic. I’ve never been dismissed. I’m not sure I would have gone back if I had been.

 

[JM3]

This has not happened to me yet but when i went to the first mass with my Catholic Girlfriend at her church the rcia candiates left after the homily and didn’t say the creed. They went to do what they call “break open the word” and the session ended when mass ended i looked this up on that particular parrishes webiste and i was just wondering if they leave and aren’t present till the end they are missing the graces of the final blessing. So this leaves me with 2 questions. why would they do that and it makes me think the graces of the final blessing do not apply to non catholics ? can someone shed some light on this for me please ?
Thanks

archive.org/details/historyofmassits01obri

A history of the Mass and its ceremonies in the Eastern and Western church (1879)

Influence of the Disciptine of the Secret on Preaching, 245

THE DISCIPLINE OF THE SECRET ON THE PREACHING.

We wish here to call the particular attention of the reader to a fact which is too often lost sight of in treating of the customs of the early Church. We refer to the Disciplina Arcani, as it was called, or the Discipline of the Secret, in virtue of which the principal mysteries of our holy faith and the nature of many of the public prayers of the Church were carefully concealed from all who were not considered as belonging to the household of faith, and this with a view to follow out to the letter that sacred admonition of our Divine Lord himself, viz. : not to “cast pearls before swine or give what was holy to dogs.” “The mysteries,” says St. Athanasius, “ought not to be publicly exhibited to the uninitiated, lest the Gentiles, who understand them not, scoff at them, and the catechumens, becoming curious, be scandalized” (Apol. contra Arimi., p. 105).
The caution which was to be observed during the prevalence of this discipline—which, as we have said in another place, lasted during the first five centuries—influenced the preachers of those days very considerably, from the fact that their audiences were often made up of Jews, Gentiles, pagans, and others who were wholly ignorant of the nature of our belief, and who would, had they but understood it in all its bearings, have made it a pretext for inciting fresh persecution.

…

We have designedly dwelt upon this subject for the reason that Protestants are fond of saying that the early Fathers say little or nothing about the Real Presence of our Lord in the Holy Eucharist. Let them but remember that until the sixth century it was strictly forbidden to teach this doctrine openly, in virtue of the Discipline of the Secret, and they will cease to be surprised at this prudent silence.

 

[Phemie]

Okay, I see that leaving Mass is part of the Church’s Tradition for Catechumens/Candidate and that is important to remember. I guess mainly what I didn’t like was being singled out, brought to the front of the church, and then marching out while everyone stared! But then I am shy so… maybe it doesn’t bother most people.

The Rite is clear that the baptized and the unbaptized (candidates and catechumens) should not be treated the same. In fact, the Rite (#391 in Canada) says “During the period of preparation the candidate may share in worship in conformity with the provisions of the Ecumenical Directory. Anything that would equate candidates for reception with those who are catechumens is to be absolutely avoided.” So dismissal should not be for everyone. Unfortunately, expediency often replaces fairness and appropriateness.

 

[1ke]

As I mentioned, it isn’t inappropriate because that is the tradition. While recent practices have omitted this tradition, it doesn’t mean that it still cannot be practiced.

I can’t speak for the East, but I can speak for the West. In the West it is not appropriate and moreover the Rite book instructs NOT to dismiss candidates. If we are to adhere to the actual instructions of the Rite, then candidates are not dismissed.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

So this leaves me with 2 questions. why would they do that and it makes me think the graces of the final blessing do not apply to non catholics ? can someone shed some light on this for me please ?
Thanks

I think you’ve gotten answers about why catechumens are dismissed. Please note that they are dismissed with a blessing, so they are being blessed before they leave.

 

[taylormcbee]

What you witnessed was probably the ancient practice of “dismissal” during the scrutinies. Your question though is a good one which would be better answered by an apologetic…I think once you get an answer from someone more articulate than me and the first two posters may find out they are being hasty in their assessment and may understand the ritual.

The scrutines are the 3rd 4th and 5th sunday of lent i witnessed this durring september so not part of the scrutines

 

[1ke]

The scrutines are the 3rd 4th and 5th sunday of lent i witnessed this durring september so not part of the scrutines

Dismissal of catechumens is not only during the scrutinies.

 

[taylormcbee]

Dismissal of catechumens is not only during the scrutinies.

I know if it was cathechumens it was candidates as well and a poster had suggested it was becuase of the scuritnes and i was saying it wasn’t

 

[MSSheBear]

When I was in the RCIA we had a dismissal at a specific Mass between the end of October until the Easter Vigil. The dismissed included any person in RCIA who could not take Communion and this included people who had been baptized as Catholics.

We went up to the front of the church for the dismissal and then left for our Breaking the Word session. It was nerve-wracking and I ended up improving my wardrobe considerably. The benefits included not having to deal with not being able to go up for Communion and being able to ask silly questions during the session.

The disadvantage was that I missed part of the Mass and lost familiarity with it until I started going to Daily Mass a couple times of week. So I don’t see dismissal as bad but advantageous.

That was my experience in RCIA but I have no profound theological comment.

 

[tafan]

I consider the dismissal a very bad idea, for both catechumens and candidates. Part of the Church’s tradition? Don’t you have to go back a long ways to show that? And the early church did lots of stuff we would not find suitable now. It smacks of ancientism. Heck, if that is the argument, why don’t we do away with private confesssions?

My experience is the Breaking Open of the Word is poorly done, lead by lay people who are not educated well enough to lead a Catholic bible study, and often times encourages personal interpretation of the Bible along the lines of protestantism.

Where is this argument coming from that the only thing to be gained by attending mass for the RCIA members is the final blessing? Come now, do we all think we don’t receive any graces from the mass if we don’t go to communion?
The whole dismissal thing makes it seem like the mass is not important if we don’t go to communion. Certainly doesn’t instill the habit of going to mass even when we can’t go to communion in the future.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Its useless to attend Mass if they leave in the middle of it. Mass is the highest form of worship.

The Early Church disagrees with this viewpoint. And I will take what they have to say about it over anyone else today.

Also regarding the thread title, when Catechumens are dismissed they are also given a blessing. So they don’t miss on any blessing at the end of Mass.

 

[Joannm]

I

My experience is the Breaking Open of the Word is poorly done, lead by lay people who are not educated well enough to lead a Catholic bible study, and often times encourages personal interpretation of the Bible along the lines of protestantism.

.

Breaking open the word is not bible study. An while it may appear to be personal interpretation what breaking open the word does is to help the catechumens to apply the readings to their own life. They come to discover their relationship with Jesus through the scriptures. If we don’t appropriate the scriptures to our own lives then it is just an academic endeavor. I have studied scripture and can repeat what the CHurch teaches about a passage, but if I can’t apply it to my life and my personal situations then what good does it do me? The Word is alive and speaks to each of us in different ways. That’s not personal interpretation, it’s making it alive in my life.

Listen to two different priests homilies. They could be as different as night and day, with each picking up on different aspects of the text and how it relates to the lives of the assembly or even to his own life.

In all my years doing RCIA I have found that it is during the Breaking Open the Word that the real conversion takes place. It is there that they discover Jesus working in their lives.

 

[Newbie2]

IMHO, the notion of the RCIA candidates somehow “missing something” i.e. a measure of grace, borders on being very close to the notion of “cheap grace”. Just because they may not be present for that final blessing does not mean they are missing something.

Quite to the contrary, they receive a measure of grace simply through their participation in the RCIA process. It’s not as though who receives what measure of what kind of grace is particularly important; grace is not a measurable or quantifiable “substance”.

 

[tafan]

IMHO, the notion of the RCIA candidates somehow “missing something” i.e. a measure of grace, borders on being very close to the notion of “cheap grace”. Just because they may not be present for that final blessing does not mean they are missing something.

Quite to the contrary, they receive a measure of grace simply through their participation in the RCIA process. It’s not as though who receives what measure of what kind of grace is particularly important; grace is not a measurable or quantifiable “substance”.

I could not disagree more. One obtains graces by attending mass, and not just by receiving communion or the final blessing.
Mass is important. We are required to go even when we cannot receive communion. If it is that important to us, why just kick people out who are already there? It is really dumb IMO.

 

[ConstantineTG]

IMHO, the notion of the RCIA candidates somehow “missing something” i.e. a measure of grace, borders on being very close to the notion of “cheap grace”. Just because they may not be present for that final blessing does not mean they are missing something.

Quite to the contrary, they receive a measure of grace simply through their participation in the RCIA process. It’s not as though who receives what measure of what kind of grace is particularly important; grace is not a measurable or quantifiable “substance”.

Also, as I mentioned, the dismissal should have its own rite of blessing. So really, they don’t miss out on anything no matter how you look at it.