Rcia Children

[Patso]

Is there some kind of rule about children in the RCIA program? I teach the First Penance/Communion class. Last year I had a boy in my class who wasn’t baptized but was in the RCIA program.
He was baptized, confirmed, received communion during the Easter vigil.
But, the priest allowed him be with the First Communion class when they made their first communion.

I thought this was unfair the other children of the same age who were baptized sent to instructions and will continue to attend instructions and can’t make confirmation till they are 12.

Why couldn’t this boy get baptized and continue with his class?

And interesting enough he made his first confession this year with my class.

Now, this year I have a girl with is ten and she is in the RCIA but only attends my class. Nobody else has given her instructions and she too will be come a Catholic at the Easter vigil this year. I don’t see how this is fair. I’m sure she will be involved in the First Commuion mass too.

Is this acceptable?

 

[KarenElissa]

Once I child is over the age of reason, 7ish, they are considered adults for the purpose of RCIA. They receive the Sacraments all together at Easter Vigil just like the adults who are coming into the Church.

I’m sure someone who can explain it better will come along, but that is the basic idea.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Is there some kind of rule about children in the RCIA program? I teach the First Penance/Communion class. Last year I had a boy in my class who wasn’t baptized but was in the RCIA program.
He was baptized, confirmed, received communion during the Easter vigil.
But, the priest allowed him be with the First Communion class when they made their first communion.

I thought this was unfair the other children of the same age who were baptized sent to instructions and will continue to attend instructions and can’t make confirmation till they are 12.

Why couldn’t this boy get baptized and continue with his class?

And interesting enough he made his first confession this year with my class.

Now, this year I have a girl with is ten and she is in the RCIA but only attends my class. Nobody else has given her instructions and she too will be come a Catholic at the Easter vigil this year. I don’t see how this is fair. I’m sure she will be involved in the First Commuion mass too.

Is this acceptable?

It is a bit convulted and confusing the way your pasish seems to be applying the rules.

Any person over Catechetical age or the Age of Reason, is to be Catechized in the RCIA process for one full liturgical year. Then receive the three Sacraments of Initiation, Baptism, Confirmation and Eucharist at the same time (or liturgy). First Confession can come a bit later since Reconciliation is not required prior to Baptism. Catechesis should of course take place before the reception of the Sacraments, not after.

 

[deb1]

Is there some kind of rule about children in the RCIA program? I teach the First Penance/Communion class. Last year I had a boy in my class who wasn’t baptized but was in the RCIA program.
He was baptized, confirmed, received communion during the Easter vigil.
But, the priest allowed him be with the First Communion class when they made their first communion.

I thought this was unfair the other children of the same age who were baptized sent to instructions and will continue to attend instructions and can’t make confirmation till they are 12.

Why couldn’t this boy get baptized and continue with his class?

And interesting enough he made his first confession this year with my class.

Now, this year I have a girl with is ten and she is in the RCIA but only attends my class. Nobody else has given her instructions and she too will be come a Catholic at the Easter vigil this year. I don’t see how this is fair. I’m sure she will be involved in the First Commuion mass too.

Is this acceptable?

My entire family was welcome into the Catholic Church when my daughter was seven or eight. She was baptised, recieved communion and confirmation all at once. She was not put into any class but the same ones her peers were. I don’t see that as being unfair, because she would have had the same info as other girls her age recieving communion.

The priest also allowed her to take a different first communion with her peer group, so she basically had two first communions.

Was it fair? I don’t know. None of the other kids seemed upset that she got to have two ceremonies for first communion. My daughter still calls the communion that she took with her peers her ‘first communion.’

Really it wasn’t fair that her peers had supportive families who came and took pictures of their niece or nephew getting communion but her uncle refused to come because it was a “Catholic ceremony.”

I’m an adult but I feel like my RCIA wasn’t infomative enough. Most of what I know about my faith has been self taught.

 

[panoikei]

Some of you may be getting confused with RCIC, Rite of Christian Initiation for Children. RCIA is for adults. My oldest son went through RCIC while my wife and I went through RCIA. Our little ones were just baptized. The Pastor makes judgement calls because he has pastoral authority. I discovered later that the Bishop really sets what he wants to happen and the Pastor is basically trying to comply with the desires of the bishop, assume the priest is not a rebel.

This is not a matter of its not fair. We’re grown adults here. Some teens. But the point is that the Pastor has to make a judgement call for what’s best for the child, not just the entire group. Children that come from other faith traditions are typically a bit more prepared if they were active in the other faith. We went to basically Sunday morning and Wednesday night bible classes and Sunday morning and Sunday evenging/sometimes Wednesday brief Worship or devotional as the time would dictate. To top that off we were very active throughout the year doing other things together in the community in afternoons, etc. In many ways it was expected and low to the one who missed it. Protestants may not have the fullness of faith but they sure do exhibit a bit more dedication at times…even if it is induced by fear.

So dont’ be so hard on these converts. You may not realize that some of us have been cut off by family and this is all we have. To keep us from the sactifying grace through the sacraments would merely be cruel in some cases. My wife already knew the Catholic faith before attending even the first day of RCIA. She wouldn’t have dared walked in even the Mass without some kind of idea of what it was. My son feared we go to hell when we first walked in with all those statues and stuff. It was very wierd to them. Like I said, we make sacrifices that many cradle Catholics just would never understand. Just as someone who’s never been truly poor would never understand true poverty, or a wartime verteran or whatever analogy that works for you.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Once I child is over the age of reason, 7ish, they are considered adults for the purpose of RCIA. They receive the Sacraments all together at Easter Vigil just like the adults who are coming into the Church.

I’m sure someone who can explain it better will come along, but that is the basic idea.

That is basically it. See

Canon 852 §1. The prescripts of the canons on adult baptism are to be applied to all those who, no longer infants, have attained the use of reason.

If anyone seven or older is baptized they must be immediately confirmed and receive communion. However, considering learning ability, and subjects to be covered in preparation, they are usually prepared in age appropriate classes - pre-teens, teens and adults. However, all receive the sacraments together at the Holy Saturday Vigil Mass.

Note that the reception of First Communion before Confirmation is was a papal permission of the 20th century. If one does not receive First Communion at age seven, one must be confirmed before receiving Communion.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Some of you may be getting confused with RCIC, Rite of Christian Initiation for Children. RCIA is for adults. My oldest son went through RCIC while my wife and I went through RCIA. Our little ones were just baptized. The Pastor makes judgement calls because he has pastoral authority. I discovered later that the Bishop really sets what he wants to happen and the Pastor is basically trying to comply with the desires of the bishop, assume the priest is not a rebel.

This is not a matter of its not fair. We’re grown adults here. Some teens. But the point is that the Pastor has to make a judgement call for what’s best for the child, not just the entire group. Children that come from other faith traditions are typically a bit more prepared if they were active in the other faith. We went to basically Sunday morning and Wednesday night bible classes and Sunday morning and Sunday evenging/sometimes Wednesday brief Worship or devotional as the time would dictate. To top that off we were very active throughout the year doing other things together in the community in afternoons, etc. In many ways it was expected and low to the one who missed it. Protestants may not have the fullness of faith but they sure do exhibit a bit more dedication at times…even if it is induced by fear.

So dont’ be so hard on these converts. You may not realize that some of us have been cut off by family and this is all we have. To keep us from the sactifying grace through the sacraments would merely be cruel in some cases. My wife already knew the Catholic faith before attending even the first day of RCIA. She wouldn’t have dared walked in even the Mass without some kind of idea of what it was. My son feared we go to hell when we first walked in with all those statues and stuff. It was very wierd to them. Like I said, we make sacrifices that many cradle Catholics just would never understand. Just as someone who’s never been truly poor would never understand true poverty, or a wartime verteran or whatever analogy that works for you.

There is not such thing as RCIC, it is an innovation of some parishes and does not exist officially in the Catholic Church.

There are two possibilities. Infant Baptism up to or about age 7 and RCIA for those over 7. RCIA is specifically laid out as a liturgical Rite with certain steps and processes to be completed in a specific order.

The Catechesis methods and content should be adapted to certain age and learning abilities. But the overall Rite and steps are to remain unaltered. Except as specified in the Rite for certain specific situations like sudden serious illness or injury of a Catechumen or Candidate. Priests are not generally given the ability to licitly Confirm any except those Adults (over 7) Baptized by them. The Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Communion are not to be re-arranged or separated.

A priest who wishes to Receive a Candidate by celebrating Confirmation and Holy Communion must ask for and receive permission from the Bishop for each individual. The Bishop grants his permission to celebrate the Sacraments of Initiation at the Easter Vigil for those whose names are in the Book of the Elect, when he signs his name under theirs on the page. Usually a list of names for Candidates in RCIA or RCIA like process is given to the Bishop at the Rite of Continuing Conversion or sent at another time. The Bishop then signs the list and return it granting the pastor permission to Confirm them.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

. . . A priest who wishes to Receive a Candidate by celebrating Confirmation and Holy Communion must ask for and receive permission from the Bishop for each individual. . . …

I think that this may vary by diocese.

Our bishop has given pastors blanket permission to confirm those baptized elsewhere when they make a Profession of Faith in the Catholic Church. However, specific permission must be obtained to confirm one who was baptized Catholic - This is for such cases as when the spouse of an Elect or Candidate has been baptized Catholic and wishes to be Confirmed.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I think that this may vary by diocese.

Our bishop has given pastors blanket permission to confirm those baptized elsewhere when they make a Profession of Faith in the Catholic Church. However, specific permission must be obtained to confirm one who was baptized Catholic - This is for such cases as when the spouse of an Elect or Candidate has been baptized Catholic and wishes to be Confirmed.

Canon Law says that the Bishop is the Ordinary minister of Confirmation in his diocese. So he should be aware of who is receiving this Sacrament.

 

[panoikei]

Sounds like you know more than the average bear. God bless you.

 

[puzzleannie]

Is there some kind of rule about children in the RCIA program? I teach the First Penance/Communion class. Last year I had a boy in my class who wasn’t baptized but was in the RCIA program.
He was baptized, confirmed, received communion during the Easter vigil.
But, the priest allowed him be with the First Communion class when they made their first communion.
?

this boy was initiated as the Church prescribes.

please get some education on the RCIA and the process. the child was in your class probably because he was learning about the same things as the others his age, but should also have had some specific instruction, with his parents and godparents, related to the RCIA itself, preparation and meaning of the various rites etc.
Yes it was pastorally sensitive to also allow him to attend with his class, even though they were receiving first communion, and he had already done it.

it is not an issue of “fairness” it is an issue of law.

 

[puzzleannie]

Some of you may be getting confused with RCIC, Rite of Christian Initiation for Children. RCIA is for adults. My oldest son went through RCIC while my wife and I went through RCIA. Our little ones were just baptized.

there is no such thing as RCIC except as a convenient acronym. There is only the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults, which is the way in which unbaptized adults (those over age 7) are brought into the Catholic Church through baptism, confirmation and Eucharist at the Easter Vigil (unless another time is pastorally established). the RCIA is adapted for children to meet their needs in preparation and formation, called the Children’s Catechumenate, but the rites, preparation, and order of sacramental initiation are the same.

When non-Catholic adults are brought into full communion with the Church, their children are initiated at the same time (if adults over age 7) and infants (under age 7) are baptized at this time if they have never been baptized.

Baptized individuals make first confession before first communion whether they are Catholic or not, child or adult. Those who are baptized at Easter prepare for and make first confession sometime after, during the mystagogy period.

for a child, the mystagogy instruction consists in RE class with his peers throughout the school years, since RCIA, for adults and youth, presents only the basics, and they still need thorough faith formation and education in the doctrine and practice of the Church.

 

[panoikei]

Please don’t be offended, I don’t mean to, but I do mean to point out the spec in your eye while my log is very difficult to remove. LOL
Check this out:

fwdioc.org/search1.aspx?cx=013531429871836409210%3Av-yft9nljla&q=RCIC&cof=FORID%3A11#952

There are so many terms used in the Church that it can be quite uncharitable to constantly bash people on the head with “I KNOW BETTER THAN YOU” actions. Okay, got that out. But this is one website that I googled in an diocese. Take the time to write things a bit more charitable sounding. I’m pretty wrasp and am not ruffled that easily. The point is that scientificially: a 7 year old that has not been baptized is considerable different than a 25 year old that has not been baptized. It seems that even the Church authority recognizes this and have made moves to provide programs that follow along this line.

I know that our parish provides different programs that different children fall under because of their history. I won’t detail them to bore you to death, but I think I’m being clear - let me know. My son was validly baptized and technically could have been prepared to receive is first communion by normal means. However, he needed to learn Catholic teaching… Well from my experience most Catholics ned to learn Catholic teaching. And based on the fact that a parish priest can deny baptizing a child because he does not believe the parents or guardian will actually teach and practice the faith, which in essence is also teaching by example.

I don’t think RCIA is a “catholic teaching” but rather a program created for non-Catholics that are considering becoming Catholic or just to learn about the faith. It is also good for existing Catholics that want to learn or review, but rarely done. Most of the RCIA program volunteers I’ve seen are converts and some reverts. An existing Catholic that has have received baptism, confessin and communion are typically directed to attend RCIA. I’m a sponsor. I sponsored my wife, thus I’m involved in catichesis now along with my convert wife that teaches now. NO, I dont’ have all the answers. But it is rather uncharitable to constantly act like you’re conrrecting me on something that is not necessary.

I’ve been through it and did a lot of research on the subject for my family’s sake. Many of you on this forum are reverts from what I’ve read. Many of us obviously need to learn more. Maybe its not me, but maybe its the presentation that moves me in such an uncomfortable way. That’s one good reason pastors are in control in the parish, not us, so that the people that think they know everything don’t have full reign. Who knows how many other religions would pop up as a result. SSPX? ring a bell. Or really even worse, those that believe we do not have a valid pope. What about the United States Catholic Church?

Example 1
RCIC is a program that is created under the RCIA program as an easy way to separate the younger children from the adults or older teens. So you might say that RCIC = RCIA.

Example 2
You are wrong. RCIC is NOT a program. ONLY RCIA. IT IS JUST A CONVENIENT WAY to…etc. etc…

I think you get my drift.

My wife told me something interesting just now. She said that gripe are typically are trying to get their “fix”. They get their fix by finding things to gripe about… I asked her to get me a link so I can post it the next time I run in to the legalists.

Peace be with you.

 

[panoikei]

One last thing. The local ordinary, that is the bishop, can require me to fast on Wednesdays if he chooses. He may also require other things as well. But that may not be the same for you. But as long as I am under his authority, I must obey him. Many Catholics don’t know that. If you want to test that. A Pastor can refuse the help from a deacon. A Bishop/pastor or a priest/pastor can refuse deacons or even female altar servers. That’s just a simple example. Intinction comes to mind as well. So why not RCIC?

 

[puzzleannie]

I am very aware of the procedures for RCIA in the Fort Worth and other Texas dioceses through our professional associations, and because of participation in and throrough reading of particular law of the various TX diocese in committee reviewing and preparing documents for our own Diocese

FW does follow the RCIA as adapted by the US bishops, with regard to the Children’s Catechumenate as well as for adults. What individual parishes do, I cannot say. You will not find the term RCIC in the ritual book.

the diocese, or nearby dioceses like Dallas or San Angelo, also host nearly every year a Beginnings Institute by the North American Forum on the Catechumenate, or a Beginnings for Children’s Catechumenate. I highly recommend it for anyone involved in this field, or with sacramental catechesis for children in general. Since it is NAFC it is also helpful for what NOT to do in this area.

we are also working to bring a training seminar on RCIA from ACM to Texas in the near future, so watch out for that.

 

[panoikei]

Thanks. I would like to look that up. BTW: Fort Worth was only one of the many choices that popped up on my google. I found many others like in my home diocese.

I’ll look all this us because both my spouse and I are looking into teaching full-time.

 

[mom2three]

RITES FOR PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCES (-- The Rites of the Catholic Church, Volume I, p. 170-172.)

God loved the world so much, he gave us his only Son, that all who believe in him might have eternal life.

1. CHRISTIAN INITIATION OF CHILDREN WHO HAVE REACHED CATECHETICAL AGE

Do not keep the children from me.

1. This form of the rite of Christian initiation is intended for children, not baptized as infants, who have attained the use of reason and are of catechetical age. They seek Christian initiation either at the direction of their parents or guardians or, with parental permission, on their own initiative. Such children are capable of receiving and nurturing a personal faith and of recognizing an obligation in conscience. But they cannot yet be treated as adults because, at this stage of their lives, they are dependent on their parents or guardians and are still strongly influenced by their companions and their social surroundings.
2. The Christian initiation of these children requires both a conversion that is personal and somewhat developed, in proportion to their age, and the assistance of the education they need. The process of initiation thus must be adapted both to their spiritual progress, that is, to the children’s growth in faith, and to the catechetical instruction they receive. Accordingly, as with adults, their initiation is to be extended over several years, if need be, before they receive the sacraments. Also as with adults, their initiation is marked by several steps: the liturgical rites of acceptance into the order of catechumens (nos. 260-276), the optional rite of election (nos. 277-290), penitential rites or scrutinies (nos. 291-303), and the celebration of the sacraments of initiation (nos. 304-329); corresponding to the periods of adult initiation are the periods of the children’s catechetical formation that lead up to and follow the steps of their initiation.
3. The children’s progress in the formation they receive depends on the help and example of their companions and on the influence of their parents. Both these factors should therefore be taken into account.
4. Since the children to be initiated often belong to a group of children of the same age who are already baptized and are preparing for confirmation and Eucharist, their initiation progresses gradually and within the supportive setting of this group of companions.
5. It is to be hoped that the children will also receive as much help and example as possible from the parents, whose permission is required for the children to be initiated and to live the Christian life. The period of initiation will also provide a good opportunity for the family to have contact with priests and catechists.
6. For the celebrations proper to this form of Christian initiation, it is advantageous, as circumstances allow, to form a group of several children who are in this same situation, in order that by example they may help one another in their progress as catechumens.
7. In regard to the time for the celebration of the steps of initiation, it is preferable that, if possible, the final period of preparation, begun by the second step, the penitential rites (or by the optional rite of election), coincide with Lent and that the final step, celebration of the sacraments of initiation, take place at the Easter Vigil (see no 8 ). Nevertheless before the children are admitted to the sacraments at Easter, it should be established that they are ready for the sacraments. Celebration at this time must also be consistent with the program of catechetical instruction they are receiving, since the candidates should, if possible, come to the sacraments of initiation at the time that their baptized companions are to receive confirmation or Eucharist.
8. For children of this age, at the rites during the process of initiation, it is generally preferable not to have the whole parish community present, but simply represented. Thus these rites should be celebrated with the active participation of a congregation that consists of a suitable number of the faithful, the parents, family, members of the catechetical group, and a few adult friends.
9. Each conference of bishops may adapt and add to the form of the rite given here, in order that the rite will more effectively satisfy local needs, conditions, and pastoral requirements. [The National Conference of Catholic Bishops has done this by providing an optional “Rite of Election” before “Second Step: Penitential Rites (Scrutinies).”] The rites for the presentation of the Creed (nos. 157-162) and the Lord’s Prayer (nos. 178-183), adapted to the age of the children, may be incorporated. When the form of the rite of initiation for children is translated, the instructions and prayers should be adapted to their understanding. Furthermore, in addition to any liturgical text translated from the Latin editio typica, the conference of bishops may also approve an original, alternative text that says the same thing in a way more suited to children (see Christian Initiation, General Introduction, no. 32).
10. In following this form of the rite of Christian initiation the celebrant should make full and wise use of the options mentioned in Christian Initiation, General Introduction (nos. 34-35), in the Rite of Baptism for Children, Introduction (no. 31), and in the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults, Introduction (no. 35).

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

There seems to be a disconnect between the first paragraph and what is contained in paragraphs 252-259. I do not find in reading through (not studying) 252-259 anything that specifically supports or suggests separating the Sacraments of Initiation in opposition to Canon 852:1.

The specific National Statutes approved by the NCCB say this:

#18 Since children who have reached the use of reason are considered, for purposes of Christian initiation, to be adults (canon 852:1), their formation should follow the general pattern of the ordinary catechumenate as far as possible, with appropriate adaptations permitted by the ritual. they should receive the Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Eucharist at the Easter Vigil, together the the older catechumens.

It goes on in #19 to say

…Their condition and status as catechumens , however, should not be compromised or confused, nor should they receive the Sacraments of Initiation in any sequence other than that determined in the ritual of Christian Initiation.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

There seems to be a disconnect between the first paragraph and what is contained in paragraphs 252-259. I do not find in reading through (not studying) 252-259 anything that specifically supports or suggests separating the Sacraments of Initiation in opposition to Canon 852:1.

The specific National Statutes approved by the NCCB say this:

#18 Since children who have reached the use of reason are considered, for purposes of Christian initiation, to be adults (canon 852:1), their formation should follow the general pattern of the ordinary catechumenate as far as possible, with appropriate adaptations permitted by the ritual. they should receive the Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Eucharist at the Easter Vigil, together the the older catechumens.

It goes on in #19 to say

…Their condition and status as catechumens , however, should not be compromised or confused, nor should they receive the Sacraments of Initiation in any sequence other than that determined in the ritual of Christian Initiation.

Isn’t it naive to expect the Bishops to be consistent in thier directions?

 

[panoikei]

Well if you want to nitpick then consider this.

I read that Candidates are to be clearly brought into the church at a separate time than catacumens. This is kind of scandalous for those that are baptized already and practicing Christians. To be lumped in with unbaptized persons kind of slaps them in the face. My wife initially felt funny with it. The validly baptized persons already have a foundation that should be recognized. However, “for convenient sake” many parishes prepare them together.

Don’t mean to change the subject, but the correlation is that not everything is perfect. I cringe at a priest saying mass holding up the bread and wine at the same time and saying “blessed are you Lord of all creation. Through your mercy we have this bread and wine to offer. It will become our spiritual food and drink”. I’ve been told it’s valid but illicit. The age of the priest fits too in my opinion. I’ve seen much worse. It’s a simple thing to do, but why do people insist on doing something so illicit? Drives me nuts, so I just hand it over to God. I feel lucky to have a priest available, why chase what little we have left off?

To me it’s rather simple, the bishops are doing the best they know how to do things. And their territories are very large. Maybe that sounds smug, but its charitable from where I come from. I love our current bishop. He’s already straightened out some previous problems in the mass.

Our former DRE was very well educated and he was humble enough to submit to the parish priest/Pastor. He did not even presume to know better, even though he was “in the know”. He has moved on to bigger and better things to help improve things.