RCIA director, canon law and my 7yo

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Dummy me! I didn’t post the link from DCF, and it was a GOOD argument to explain this!!! Wasn’t being crumudgeonly. 🙂 🙂
Uh, so, are you going to post the link now? Please don’t unleash your full mudgie wrath on me for asking, okay?
 
I will post these later today.
From The Catechumenate and the Law - By “John Huels

“The NCCB Statutes state:
Since children who have reached the use of reason are considered, for purposes of Christian Initiation, to be adults (canon 852, #1), their formation should follow the general pattern of the ordinary Catechumenate as far as possible, with the appropriate adaptations permitted in the ritual. The should receive the sacraments of baptism, confirmation and Eucharist at the Easter Vigil, together with the older catechumens. (18)” Pg 27

“Canon 842 #2, of the Code of Canon Law says that the sacraments of baptism, confirmation and the most Holy Eucharist are so interrelated that they are required for full Christian initiation… The law of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops is fully in accord with these provisions of universal law:

In order to signify clearly the interrelation of coalescence of the three sacraments which are required for full Christian initiation, adult candidates, including children of catechetical age, are to receive baptism, confirmation, and Eucharist in a single Eucharistic celebration, whether at the Easter Vigil, or, if necessary at some other time. (NCCB statutes, 14)
The celebration of the three sacraments of initiation in the same celebration is normative; it is the way it should be done. The delay of confirmation and/or Eucharist after baptism is the exception…” Pg 29

“Because confirmation and Eucharist are so closely related to baptism, and because they complete Christian initiation, confirmation and first communion should never be delayed except after infant baptism, unless there is a grave reason (cf. RCIA, 24, 215). Without confirmation and Eucharist, Christian initiation is incomplete, and the rite of initiation is truncated. Likewise, those who are Baptized as adults or children of catechetical age without receiving confirmation or Eucharist are denied sacraments to which they are entitled by law and are also denied the graces and benefits of the sacraments… Therefore, confirmation and Eucharist can be delayed only in the case of infant baptism, or in the case of an adult baptism, for serious reasons. This also applies to children of catechetical age (NCCB Statutes, 14). ” Pg 31

“The standard age for the reception of confirmation in the Latin Church is about the age of discretion, that is, about seven years of age (canon 891). Even in places where the competent ecclesiastical authority permits confirmation at a later age, this exception to canon law does not apply in the case of children who are baptized when they are seven or older and have the use of reason. They must be confirmed immediately after baptism irrespective of the age that other children in the parish are confirmed.” Pg 33

There is a firm legal obligation binding the minister to confirm adults and children of catechetical age who are baptized, or received into the Church, even though they may be below the age that children baptized in infancy normally are confirmed at that local. Canon 855 #2” Pg 33

This is discussed over 10 pages (25-35) I recommend those interested purchase the book.
 
I will post these later today.
From The Catechumenate answer Book by Paul Turner:

" The Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults foresees the need for a childrens catechumenate (252-330). an unbaptized child who is no longer an infant should enter a catechumenate and prepaer for the sacraments of initiation, normally at the Easter Vigil… The shape of the catechumenate for children resembles that of adults. for example, they may celebrate the rites of acceptance, election, and scrutiny. Most important, they celebrate all three sacraments at their initiation: baptism, confirmation, and Eucharist. Their condition as catechumens should not be confused with baptized children, nor should they receive the sacraments of initiation in any sequence other than that determined in the ritual of christian Initiation. (NS 19) Pg 25

"What is Catechetical Age?

A simple guideline is this: If an unbaptized child is old enough to be prepared for firsy communion, he or she should enter the catechumenate for formation." Pg 26
 
I really need help drafting this
JMJ + OBT​

Please consider tomorrow contacting by telephone or e-mail …

The St. Joseph Foundation

They will be able to help you or will put you in contact with a canon lawyer whom you can employ to help you.

You could instead directly contact the office of the following Catholic canon lawyer:

Mr. Philip C. L. Gray, JCL
Professional Canonical Services


Mr. Gray is a reputable canon lawyer committed to doctrinal orthodoxy and application of the Church’s law in full conformity with all of her teachings; and his fee schedule (see his website) is quite reasonable.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA
 
before drafting a letter to the bishop, I suggest my original advice, politely ask the DRE or RCIA director to show you the policy from the Diocese in writing, and if she cannot do this, ask for an appointment with the pastor. Explain your question to him, in the context of asking for enlightenment on the whole RCIA process. Tell him where you got your information, tell him why you are confused, and ask for clarification.

so far all you have is the word of one lay person in one parish that this is indeed diocesan law. No point in writing the bishop until you find out one way or the other.
 
Have the same problem in our parish with the DRE/FFD. She relishes in her self ordained authority. Sadly she has not recieved very good catechesis herself and has latched on to McBrein/curran and the likes as far as theology goes. She is quite intimidated by some of us who, in her words ,“are really into the old Catholicism stuff”. Anyway, since it sounds like your dre/ffd is a twin of mine…I suggest you find a new parish if you do not get sufficient help.

I am going to have my children recieve confirmation as young as possible. Why? Because a Sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace. I believe in this grace and want my children to recieve it as soon as possible. It can only help.
 
Your mixing

Rules
Authority
Personalities
Operation of the Parish

Rules-Believe me the rules should be left to Canonical Lawyers and Bishops, it is unlikely we need to correct them.

Authority - It is with the Bishop and you were correctly advised of such.

Personalities- in the postings there is a self evident theme of not trusting the DRE, why I do not know. Frankly the Priest does not personally perform ever administrative function in the Parish, so use that knowledge. Ask a deacon, former DRE, catechist, office admin., most of these people have sufficient experiences about the Parish practices. If your Parish is tiny and lacking services call a diocese Admin office and talk to the staff. If you have no answer then, or an answer you can not accept, call the office and schedule and appointment with the Priest. Only after that appointment should you consider requesting a formal appointment in the Diocese Administration Office with either an assistant to the Bishop or a Cannon Lawyer.

Personalities - My guess is the DRE is helping you more than you understand. Occasional the DRE is frustrated Catholic with an ax to grind but odds are against it.

Operation of the Parish - this seems missing in the post. Why send a kid to ccd, and confirmation class? That is 2-5 yrs with lots of parent involvement and the kid will be 16-17 when complete. So just wait until age 7-8 and send them to RCIA. Maybe the Bishop, Priest, and DRE think the RCIA is for people who would have difficulty or simply can not attend the ccd/cca classes? Maybe they think such thought is to partially subvert the proper order?

I also read the same as WenckebachCath, and I have no idea how the "cradle catholic’ is different from any other catholic
 
Personalities- in the postings there is a self evident theme of not trusting the DRE, why I do not know.
Because of the aloofness of her responses to legitimate concerns and the absurd notion of not bothering the priest which puts her as an artificial gateway to the priest. The poster’s description indicates she feels she is getting the run around, and since her description of events and responses fits the pattern of other RCIA director problems testified to here, she has a case for concern and getting clarification. Since there is absolutey, positively and metaphysically nothing wrong with speaking to the priest directly (about anything by the way) along with the fact that such a conversation would probably answer everybody’s concerns and lay them to rest, such a course of action should be uncontroversial.

I mentioned it before: Most RCIA directors are fantastic and a great help and one ought to follow their lead in good faith. When a director tries to steer you away from talking to the priest however, red flags should go up.
 
Because of the aloofness of her responses to legitimate concerns and the absurd notion of not bothering the priest which puts her as an artificial gateway to the priest. The poster’s description indicates she feels she is getting the run around, and since her description of events and responses fits the pattern of other RCIA director problems testified to here, she has a case for concern and getting clarification. Since there is absolutey, positively and metaphysically nothing wrong with speaking to the priest directly (about anything by the way) along with the fact that such a conversation would probably answer everybody’s concerns and lay them to rest, such a course of action should be uncontroversial.

I mentioned it before: Most RCIA directors are fantastic and a great help and one ought to follow their lead in good faith. When a director tries to steer you away from talking to the priest however, red flags should go up.
Scott
I appreciate your post and do not see actual error in the post. However, I would recommend handling this differently for several reasons. If she follows your advice the Priest will probably attempt to explain this issue, only to realize she has limited Catholic training. You may want to reread post #20 with attention to detail. How can the Priest explain the details of authority on this issue to her under those circumstances? I suspect he will send her back to RCIA with no resolution what so ever. I suspect the Priest and DRE have handled other candidates, ccd, cca, and catechumens in the past.

By the way (btw) what did you read directly from the DRE ?
 
Scott
You may want to reread post #20 with attention to detail.
Ack! How did I miss that one?! Yes, this changes things. My apologies for continuing in one-note mode. 🙂 I would point out that it changes things only in this situation. Just like I said most RCIA directors are unproblematic, so most priests are more than happy to hear from concerned laity, so I think my advice still stands in general. What do do with a coy RCIA director and a less-than-entusiastic priest? Not sure. I’d have to think on it.
 
also want to point out to anyone interested that the sacramental guidelines of the diocese and very likely other information of interest on RCIA, RE etc. is probably availabe on your diocesan website, worth a check.
 
No, no, I only meant “wrath” to go with being a curmudgeon, just a joke! Thanks for the link. Cameron Lansing is always helpful.
That’s OK, I have enough mudgieness on my own.😉
 
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