RCIA Discussion regarding Missal books

[jmcrae]

Could you quote a source on missals only being permitted for the hearing impaired, or is that purely opinion?

Where did I say “only”? Obviously if you want to read along, you can. But, is this the best way to enter into a soul-to-soul relationship with Christ? Or is it more like being in school and being taught something?

It’s up to you. I think I’ve made my opinion clear.

 

[Neofight]

Where did I say “only”? Obviously if you want to read along, you can. But, is this the best way to enter into a soul-to-soul relationship with Christ? Or is it more like being in school and being taught something?

It’s up to you. I think I’ve made my opinion clear.

Thanks. It is clear now. I wrongly understood you to be explaining hard fast church teaching a not just an opinion. The comment stirred my scrupulous tendencies I battle, because I know my knowledge of the faith is not as deep as many here.

No offense intended, my apologies!

 

[Corki]

It is physically impossible to both hear and read at the same time - what you are “hearing” is your own voice, rather than the priest’s voice or the reader’s voice. (Which is why it sounds so much clearer - it’s inside your own head.)

That’s not true - at least not from the standpoint of organiztional psychology. The mind can certainly process auditory and visual information at the same time - especially if they are congruent.

Here’s an example - today’s readings contained a place name that is hard to pronounce. The pronunciation of the reader was different than the one in my own brain. I received and processed both sets of information and the dissonance was immediately noticed. If I was not** both **hearing and reading, I would not have noticed.

 

[Honour]

Today in RCIA, we had a rather unfortunate rabbit trail discussion. I say unfortunate because it had nothing to do with our topic of Christian Freedom, and in fact, may have undermined it. In addition it ended up being a discussion among the catechists and sponsors while us poor candidates looked on.

To make a long story short, the root of the discussion was that reading the Bible along with the daily readings was in some way a distraction to others, particularly if you use an iPhone to do so.

It should be noted my parish does not have missals in the pews although a couple can be found in the entrance area.

The discussion moved on and they seemed to say that the reason they don’t have missals in the pews is because you should listen to the reading and not be reading along. That if you want to read the Word it should be done beforehand.

I am pretty sure this is way off base. I asked them if they were really saying it was wrong to read Gods word silently along with the priest or lector and they ultimately said no.

The conversation was disheartening for me as it reeked of legalism and asserting ones preference as if it was Canon law.

Does anyone have any insights on this. Surely there is no prohibition against reading the Bible during mass. Right?

These types of “discussions” and “debates” are one of the reasons I quit an RCIA program. We had this same debate, and then a rather heated “should we recieve blessings during communion” debate that resulted in one RCIA leader threatening to call the bishop on the pastor (not very conducive atmosphere for us candidates and catechumen)

Ultimately, my understanding is that its personal preference of the person attending whether or not to read along, it is personal preference of the pastor as whether to provide missals in the pew or not.

People may have very good reasons for their preferences…but should not try to impose them on others or judge them for having a different preference. Sure explain why you think it is beneficial…but some of the “arguments” on both sides are just rude and “holier than thou”.

Personally I am very highly visual and very low in auditory learning. Without a missal, I lose track of the readings, then half of the homily makes no sense. So I read along with the provided missal.

Also, the missals in the pews where very critical to my conversion journey. I was lost without them. I purchased my own using the website I got off the inside of the missal, I read the daily readings and learned the order of the mass and responses that way. Later a deacon clued me in that our church had extra copies and I could take one home with me every time it updated! It was a real blessing, I marked the pages I would need before each mass and it helped me participate and understand what was going on without feeling self-concious or anxious.

As far as the electronics go, I don’t one person should tell another what to do about that, unless that person is someone like your pastor. I don’t use mine, although I would like to, because I am too self conscious and worried about what others would think. They should not be paying attention to me anyways…but that is my preference.

 

[rayne89]

Our song book has the Mass readings at the front. Our pastor at the beginning of the Mass gives the page number of the Mass readings. I can “hear” better when I read a long, and my parents are elderly & hard of hearing. Without the missal they would not understand the readings. Our parish is very traditional (but OF). Even at the other, I would say more modern parishes, in the area they have the Mass readings. I think not to have them especially for those hard of hearing is kind of harsh.

 

[Michael57]

These debates seem fruitless.

Some of us have hearing loss, just ask my wife. Some of us try our best to hear the reader (me again), and even when we are having a good day, the pronunciation is off and the whole thing becomes, “what did they just say?” and the reading goes out the window. Then we have the recent change in wording of the liturgy (and that’s fine with me, really, it is)…and the old words can still be heard on occasion from certain parishioners (yep, me again)…

We have missalettes, sometimes I can get by when I am sitting close to the front, and when the reader is clear in speech. When our the deacon is there, there is never a problem, but he is shared among four parishes. He chants the Gospel. Clear as a bell.

Maybe next year or the year after, I’ll get a hearing aid, but even when I have a good day, I still like to read along to make sure that I am actually hearing what they are actually saying, and not what I think they are saying through the tinnitus, and a hearing aid doesn’t help that for those that do not suffer hearing loss (yet).

If we didn’t have the missalettes, I would buy one and bring it with me. Others do. I see no harm in it, only help. Perhaps if I were 30 or 40 years younger, I wouldn’t think it’s a big deal, but I am not, and it is.

But to have it come up as an argument in a RCIA class is really a bird of a different feather. And with instructors and sponsors?

Wow.

What are they thinking?

It’s a quibble! :doh2:

No one goes to Gehenna over a missalette. Well, maybe in the OP’s example…

 

[bcuster]

I have heard the “no missal in pew” reason before. It goes like this. In the first centuries of the church there was not missal for the laity. The Word was proclaimed for the people to hear and respond. I get that. Most people are literate these days. We have access to the written Word. Yes, we should listen. Yes, we should have read it before. I have a touch of ADD. I like to read it as well because I get easily distracted. I use it to focus me.

 

[gh4]

If there are no pew missals and you need/want one, then buy a subscription to one of the monthly ones or invest in a regular missal that has all the readings for all the years in it, daily or Sunday ones are available.

I used a missal because many of our lectors have heavy accents. All of our priests have been foreign born and educated and have heavy accents. Hard to understand what they are saying, easier to read and, in my eyes, it was better to read along than to get nothing out of it. Bad enough that many times the homily is not understood, at least with a missal one could understand the readings and the Gospel.

 

[elizaveta01]

The Mass is a prayer. Prayer is a conversation with someone you love - God.

Would you use printed materials to “follow along” with a conversation with your mother? There are standard responses that you use in conversations with your mother - “How are you dear?” “I am well, how are you doing?” “May I take your coat?” “Yes, please.” “What would you like to drink?” etc.

Wouldn’t it be odd if people brought “cheat sheets” along with them to Sunday dinner, with the dinner conversation parts printed for everyone to follow along?

Remember that when you come to Mass, you are coming to Sunday dinner with God. Even thought the conversation is “scripted,” it’s important to make an effort to speak them and hear them with the heart, and as far as possible, avoid using printed materials to follow along, in order to enter into a more real experience of conversation with God.

I’m not critiziing the deaf, the learning disabled, and those who can’t understand the Reader’s accent, and who really do need to follow along in the Missal - but I’m throwing this out there as food for thought, for those who are able to do so, and would benefit from a deeper relationship with Jesus through the Mass.

Sorry, but I don’t agree. By your logic the LOTH would not be a real conversation with God because it is in written form.

The Church both allows, and encourages, people to publish missals and Churches to buy them. But it’s wrong to use them???

 

[rfournier103]

I love my Missal. It helps me follow, and keeps my mind from wandering. And… truth be told, it’s fun to follow along.

Mine even has some prayers in the back that I read aloud (but quietly so only God and I may hear them) after partaking in the Holy Eucharist.

You want one? Get one. I did. My Sunday Mass experience is far better off for it. I think it’s exellent for learning the Mass (and the faith)!

 

[jmcrae]

Sorry, but I don’t agree. By your logic the LOTH would not be a real conversation with God because it is in written form.

The LOTH is sung in two choirs with a Cantor- and yes, you follow along with the words on the page.

The Church both allows, and encourages, people to publish missals and Churches to buy them. But it’s wrong to use them???

Not “wrong to use them” - where did I say that?

I said, use it to read ahead when preparing for Mass. Study it before Mass, and study it after Mass - that’s why it’s not printed in sequential order, but rather, in sections of similar things - you’re not meant to be paging along. During Mass, though, pray; don’t read.

LOTH on the other hand is printed in sequential order with each choir part marked, and the parts for the Cantor marked, so you can page along and keep up with your particular sections.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Thank you everyone for the responses. I better understand both sides of the argument now. I will probably still be using my missal as I go to mass with the mindset to worship and serve God. Reading along with the readings is my way if giving 100% to the endeavor.

In reading the comments, lets just all remember its not forbidden in anyway, so try to withhold judgement from the guy down the pew who is reading along !

 

[jmcrae]

Thank you everyone for the responses. I better understand both sides of the argument now. I will probably still be using my missal as I go to mass with the mindset to worship and serve God. Reading along with the readings is my way if giving 100% to the endeavor.

In reading the comments, lets just all remember its not forbidden in anyway, so try to withhold judgement from the guy down the pew who is reading along !

Keep in mind that you can pray without “knowing the words” as well - God hears a sincere heart, always, even when you aren’t saying the words perfectly.

 

[DJSexton]

I just saw this and felt the urge to chime in, even though you might have had a plethora of good (name removed by moderator)ut. I hope you don’t mind.

I came through RCIA almost two years ago after being baptised 44 years ago as a Catholic baby! While most of my family is what I refer to as old school Catholics, I feel that my walk is my own and I asked the good Lord to enter my life as late as I did. A little off point but basically, I have a modern Catholic-loving outlook, rather than most of my family, which maintains a more stern, “this is the way it’s done” outlook. As soon as I came out of RCIA, I felt the call to a ministry and I chose (well, I more felt the call) to pursue Lector.

I feel blessed in this current role and I have used the iMissal iPhone app in preparation for listening to the mass, and or preparing during the week of my Sunday reading. While I kind of feel a little off reading in the pew, I feel most people would understand the influence of technology today. I can say though, as I read scripture more an more, I’ve observed more of the parishioners seem to focus on my speaking, rather than reading along. Perhaps, this is because I prepare a week in advance and my inflections are appropriately inviting and not mundane (Well, I could hope, right?)

So, you have a thumbs up from me on the iPhone iMissal!!

 

[Joan_M]

You cannot both hear and read at the same time, since the brain uses the same area for both functions. But the Word is meant to be heard - so it is less desirable to read along.

**This is totally incorrect! Of course people can hear the reader and follow the reading in the missal at the same time. If they cannot, there is something wrong.

Reading and listening to the Word makes it easier to internalize. It is being heard and seen at the same time.
**

 

[markomalley]

Today in RCIA, we had a rather unfortunate rabbit trail discussion. I say unfortunate because it had nothing to do with our topic of Christian Freedom, and in fact, may have undermined it. In addition it ended up being a discussion among the catechists and sponsors while us poor candidates looked on.

To make a long story short, the root of the discussion was that reading the Bible along with the daily readings was in some way a distraction to others, particularly if you use an iPhone to do so.

It should be noted my parish does not have missals in the pews although a couple can be found in the entrance area.

The discussion moved on and they seemed to say that the reason they don’t have missals in the pews is because you should listen to the reading and not be reading along. That if you want to read the Word it should be done beforehand.

I am pretty sure this is way off base. I asked them if they were really saying it was wrong to read Gods word silently along with the priest or lector and they ultimately said no.

The conversation was disheartening for me as it reeked of legalism and asserting ones preference as if it was Canon law.

Does anyone have any insights on this. Surely there is no prohibition against reading the Bible during mass. Right?

I, for one, use the iBreviary (Android/iPhone/Blackberry/Web) app on my phone throughout the Mass. This app has not only the readings but the antiphons proper to the Mass (which, sadly, are omitted by our parish). It also allows me to follow along quickly with the celebrant when he prays the collect (which, incidentally, is an essential part of the Liturgy of the Word, as it frames the readings).

I also have some traditional prayers appropriate for before Mass, before Communion, and after Communion. (it helps block out the banal noise during the Communion Rite). I keep those prayers on my Google Drive and pull them up during the appropriate times.

I also keep the Leonine Prayers for after the Mass on my Google Drive (though, honestly, I have them memorized). Again, having the words there helps me focus on prayer rather than on the social hour that begins immediately after Mass.

I see no problem with this practice and neither should you.

(And, by the way, as one who has been a reader for more than a decade, I really don’t allow myself to be distracted by what people in the congregation do or don’t do when I am reading from the ambo. I can only imagine inexperienced readers allowing themselves to be distracted by the turn of pages, imho)

ON EDIT: I also use iBreviary (rather than carrying around my book Breviary) when praying Lauds or Vespers…it works even if I am praying in community, as I do every now and again.

 

[Filii_Dei]

I have never heard of a prohibition on reading the same readings that is being proclaimed simply because it would interfere with us listening to the readings. That sounds like very bad theology (and psychology) to me. The whole point of reading the missal is to ensure that we listen to the readings more attentively and be more aware of what is being spoken. There is no dichotomy or conflict.

Perhaps it is just my own flawed sense of hearing, but I feel that I understand the words of scripture far better if I have the text in front of me, and I can follow the flow of what is being proclaimed. Without the missal, I find that I spend more time trying to piece together what is being said, rather than contemplating on the lesson. I may also miss out details, which leads to me only remembering certain parts (fortunately, usually the important ones) of the readings, and my understanding of the lesson becomes very narrow and primitive. However, with the missal, I do not need to concentrate on trying to assemble the spoken word into coherent sentences, but I can truly appreciate what is being spoken, as it is being spoken, in all its magisterial authority. Again, your mileage may vary, but this is how it works for me.

Of course, we must remember that being able to read is an optional bonus, but an audible proclamation is fundamentally necessary. If there are no missals, a Mass must still go on, but no Mass (unless private) should be celebrated without a proclamation of the readings, whether in the vernacular or Latin, for everyone (except the deaf) is able to hear and listen, but only the literate are fortunate enough to read as well. However, it is patently wrong to say that is impermissible or even undesirable to read the readings. There is no such assertion in the teachings of the Church by any doctor or document. If missals are available and people do not wish to use them, they are free to keep it closed, but there is no reason why others need to be deprived of it.

Missals have been such an integral tradition of the Church for so long, even if they have been the reserve of the literate. So why is it that now - when most people finally have the good fortune of literacy - do we suddenly decide that being able to read is bad? It would be good to remember that even though many priests can probably celebrate the Mass with their eyes closed, they always keep altar cards and a missal on the altar. Yes, it is required by the rubrics, but why do the rubrics require it? While there are many other good reasons as well, the intention is also the same - it is to spend less time trying to compose the words themselves but to contemplate and fill our hearts with their mystical significance.

 

[maryjk]

The Mass is a prayer. Prayer is a conversation with someone you love - God.

Would you use printed materials to “follow along” with a conversation with your mother? There are standard responses that you use in conversations with your mother - “How are you dear?” “I am well, how are you doing?” “May I take your coat?” “Yes, please.” “What would you like to drink?” etc.

Which means any time you pray, you shouldn’t use printed material to follow along, right?

Wouldn’t it be odd if people brought “cheat sheets” along with them to Sunday dinner, with the dinner conversation parts printed for everyone to follow along?

Yes, it would. But I was never expected to learn something from the stories my mother told. She generally told them for fun.

Remember that when you come to Mass, you are coming to Sunday dinner with God. Even thought the conversation is “scripted,” it’s important to make an effort to speak them and hear them with the heart, and as far as possible, avoid using printed materials to follow along, in order to enter into a more real experience of conversation with God.

Gee wiz, if it is like Sunday dinner with Mom, I wish people would stop commenting on what others wear. Because my mom, she wouldn’t have cared what people wore.

I’m not critiziing the deaf, the learning disabled, and those who can’t understand the Reader’s accent, and who really do need to follow along in the Missal - but I’m throwing this out there as food for thought, for those who are able to do so, and would benefit from a deeper relationship with Jesus through the Mass.

If I stopped following along, and just listened? I would get LESS out of Mass, not more.

 

[jmcrae]

Of course, we must remember that being able to read is an optional bonus, but an audible proclamation is fundamentally necessary.

What on earth for? If everyone is reading along because they can’t hear the proclamation of the Word, then there is little point in having any proclamation of the Word - we should just have a five minute silence while all read to themselves.

I rescind my opinion that people should listen and hear - throw out those expensive microphones, and don’t bother the volunteers - just have the congregation read the Missal; so few people know how to listen anymore, anyway.

 

[Jon_S_1]

What on earth for? If everyone is reading along because they can’t hear the proclamation of the Word, then there is little point in having any proclamation of the Word - we should just have a five minute silence while all read to themselves.

I rescind my opinion that people should listen and hear - throw out those expensive microphones, and don’t bother the volunteers - just have the congregation read the Missal; so few people know how to listen anymore, anyway.

Come on now,

you know that this is improper. There is a very strong difference between someone saying “Time for silent reading time” of which 90% of the people will pick their nose and twiddle their thumbs, or check their emails, and someone silently reading along with the reader who is proclaiming the word.

Perhaps, the lector should not read the word, but memorize it and proclaim it under punishment of death for misplacing the wording!