RCIA Discussion regarding Missal books

[Jon_S_1]

What on earth for? If everyone is reading along because they can’t hear the proclamation of the Word, then there is little point in having any proclamation of the Word - we should just have a five minute silence while all read to themselves.

I rescind my opinion that people should listen and hear - throw out those expensive microphones, and don’t bother the volunteers - just have the congregation read the Missal; so few people know how to listen anymore, anyway.

To be honest, this type of debate simply fuels and perhaps justifies the protestant complaint that “reading the Bible is banned in Catholic Churches” .

 

[jmcrae]

To be honest, this type of debate simply fuels and perhaps justifies the protestant complaint that “reading the Bible is banned in Catholic Churches” .

The fact that we use Missals, whether we’re reading along in them or not, is what makes Protestants think we don’t use the Bible at Mass. Reading along won’t change their opinion of that.

 

[Jon_S_1]

The fact that we use Missals, whether we’re reading along in them or not, is what makes Protestants think we don’t use the Bible at Mass. Reading along won’t change their opinion of that.

Surely you could see though, a protestant looking at this thread and saying, “man they really don’t want people to read the word of God for themselves!”

 

[jmcrae]

Surely you could see though, a protestant looking at this thread and saying, “man they really don’t want people to read the word of God for themselves!”

What’s important is not what Protestants think (Mass is not Bible Study, anyway - Protestants can observe Catholics reading the Bible at Bible Study), but that we remember that we are praying the Mass; not reading the Scriptures, and that we are at worship; not at Sunday School.

 

[Jon_S_1]

What’s important is not what Protestants think (Mass is not Bible Study, anyway - Protestants can observe Catholics reading the Bible at Bible Study), but that we remember that we are praying the Mass; not reading the Scriptures, and that we are at worship; not at Sunday School.

I will remember that the next time I pray the liturgy of the hours. Perhaps I should also throw away my new book of catholic prayers, after all if you can’t read a prayer…

 

[jmcrae]

I will remember that the next time I pray the liturgy of the hours. Perhaps I should also throw away my new book of catholic prayers, after all if you can’t read a prayer…

Tell me this: do you read along with the group recitation of the Rosary? No?! Why not? (Because you are praying together; not reading together.)

The Mass is more like the Rosary (a group recitation of prayer) than like holy reading.

 

[maryjk]

Tell me this: do you read along with the group recitation of the Rosary? No?! Why not? (Because you are praying together; not reading together.)

The Mass is more like the Rosary (a group recitation of prayer) than like holy reading.

YES!!

Because I don’t know all of the prayers they pray.

So I guess it is fine for me to read along, since I don’t know all of the readings.

 

[Corki]

YES!!

Because I don’t know all of the prayers they pray.

So I guess it is fine for me to read along, since I don’t know all of the readings.

And when we pray the Liturgy of the Hours, we read along too since no one has that memorized. (at least no one I know)

 

[Elizium23]

My parish prays a Novena to Our Mother of Perpetual Help every Tuesday night. For this purpose we distribute laminated cards to everyone in the assembly so that they may - what - pray along with us. I happen to have memorized all the prayers. Does this mean I am superior to people who have not memorized, and must read along?

Our parish still provides translation cards to aid those who have not yet learned the new English translation of the Missal. Are people who read from these cards somehow less than those who memorized everything? I have not memorized the Nicene Creed. Is my prayer less efficacious because I still rely on the card?

Our priest at Mass is very reverent and believes in saying the black and doing the red. He accomplishes this by using the Missal meticulously in every part of the Mass. He reads everything from the Introduction to the Dismissal with the help of an altar server. Especially he reads the entire Eucharistic Prayer while the Missal stands on the altar nearby. Does this make the Eucharist invalid, because the priest is not “praying” but merely “reading along”?

 

[Jon_S_1]

Tell me this: do you read along with the group recitation of the Rosary? No?! Why not? (Because you are praying together; not reading together.)

The Mass is more like the Rosary (a group recitation of prayer) than like holy reading.

Well if the rosary was different everyday and only repeated itself once every three years I sure would read along !!

 

[Jon_S_1]

My parish prays a Novena to Our Mother of Perpetual Help every Tuesday night. For this purpose we distribute laminated cards to everyone in the assembly so that they may - what - pray along with us. I happen to have memorized all the prayers. Does this mean I am superior to people who have not memorized, and must read along?

Our parish still provides translation cards to aid those who have not yet learned the new English translation of the Missal. Are people who read from these cards somehow less than those who memorized everything? I have not memorized the Nicene Creed. Is my prayer less efficacious because I still rely on the card?

Our priest at Mass is very reverent and believes in saying the black and doing the red. He accomplishes this by using the Missal meticulously in every part of the Mass. He reads everything from the Introduction to the Dismissal with the help of an altar server. Especially he reads the entire Eucharistic Prayer while the Missal stands on the altar nearby. Does this make the Eucharist invalid, because the priest is not “praying” but merely “reading along”?

This is a good point, the priest does a lot of reading himself at mass

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Tell me this: do you read along with the group recitation of the Rosary? No?! Why not? (Because you are praying together; not reading together.)

The Mass is more like the Rosary (a group recitation of prayer) than like holy reading.

The 2 times I have done a group recitation I have read along. One time was during this past RCIA and the second time was right after Eater Vigil at CRHP. I still read the mysteries and I have to read Hail, Holy Queen at the end. I still have to read the Act of Contrition during confession. Am I less Catholic because I am new and didn’t learn these things growing up?

 

[jmcrae]

Apparently I am the only person on earth who can learn by hearing.

I am also a convert. I didn’t even know there was such a thing as the Missal until I had been attending Mass for three months, and by then, I had the regular prayers memorized.

I also learned the Rosary by hearing it recited; it took me two weeks of coming to Rosary and hearing it recited.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Apparently I am the only person on earth who can learn by hearing.

I am also a convert. I didn’t even know there was such a thing as the Missal until I had been attending Mass for three months, and by then, I had the regular prayers memorized.

I also learned the Rosary by hearing it recited; it took me two weeks of coming to Rosary and hearing it recited.

People learn differently. My brother can watch a movie once and have it basically memorized.

Good for you that memorizing is quick for you. Not everyone is like that. I don’t think you should assume that everyone learns like you. There is nothing wrong with it taking a bit longer to learn things.

 

[maryjk]

Apparently I am the only person on earth who can learn by hearing.

I am also a convert. I didn’t even know there was such a thing as the Missal until I had been attending Mass for three months, and by then, I had the regular prayers memorized.

I also learned the Rosary by hearing it recited; it took me two weeks of coming to Rosary and hearing it recited.

Congratulations !!

By the way, you may not know the rosary as well as you think.

Every time I go somewhere new, they add a prayer or two. I never know if they are going to pray the Fatima prayer or the second Fatima prayer or Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary or the “O God whose only begotten Son has purchased for us the rewards of eternal life” or the Memorare of St. Bernard. Sorry, I am a life long Catholic and since I don’t pray those prayers, I haven’t memorized them .

 

[jmcrae]

Congratulations !!

By the way, you may not know the rosary as well as you think.

Every time I go somewhere new, they add a prayer or two. I never know if they are going to pray the Fatima prayer or the second Fatima prayer or Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary or the “O God whose only begotten Son has purchased for us the rewards of eternal life” or the Memorare of St. Bernard. Sorry, I am a life long Catholic and since I don’t pray those prayers, I haven’t memorized them .

I am well aware that different parishes use different prayers at the beginning and at the end - if they pray something unfamiliar, I pray along with it in my heart while listening to it; I don’t worry that it’s not one that I know, yet.

Honestly, I would find it way more challenging to fiddle around and flip through a book looking for the prayers to follow along with (and bother my neighbor, excuse me, which Fatima prayer is this one?), than simply to listen and hear, and learn it for next time.

 

[Filii_Dei]

What on earth for? If everyone is reading along because they can’t hear the proclamation of the Word, then there is little point in having any proclamation of the Word - we should just have a five minute silence while all read to themselves.

I rescind my opinion that people should listen and hear - throw out those expensive microphones, and don’t bother the volunteers - just have the congregation read the Missal; so few people know how to listen anymore, anyway.

Please calm down. Nobody is making such an assertion. Your slippery slopes are flawed and do not contribute to the argument.

It is useful to be aware that proclaiming while prohibiting reading is suboptimal for those who thrive on reading while listening; but reading without proclamation is haphazard, unguided, and certainly does not belong to the public worship of the Church. This is why it makes absolutely no sense to assert that we should throw out proclamation. Additionally, proclaiming the readings has always been part of a tradition of the Church, which has no place in being removed. I initially mentioned this as part of my previous post but I took this out because I did not expect anybody to make such an absurd conclusion that we should read without proclamation.

Apparently I am the only person on earth who can learn by hearing.

I am also a convert. I didn’t even know there was such a thing as the Missal until I had been attending Mass for three months, and by then, I had the regular prayers memorized.

I also learned the Rosary by hearing it recited; it took me two weeks of coming to Rosary and hearing it recited.

I am well aware that different parishes use different prayers at the beginning and at the end - if they pray something unfamiliar, I pray along with it in my heart while listening to it; I don’t worry that it’s not one that I know, yet.

Honestly, I would find it way more challenging to fiddle around and flip through a book looking for the prayers to follow along with (and bother my neighbor, excuse me, which Fatima prayer is this one?), than simply to listen and hear, and learn it for next time.

That’s great for you, but I would like to stress that not everyone is like you. Please do keep that in mind. Your ability to pick up words quickly from simply listening is most laudable. However, not everybody has the gift that you have. You are free not to read, but do not impose your own standards on others when it has absolutely nothing to do with traditions nor faith. This is simply a matter of personal preference, and we are simply splitting hairs here.

Again, as I have mentioned before, missals (for those who can read them) are very much part of the tradition of the Church, and there is no good reason to remove them. Further to that, I would again point out that there is no Church teaching that supports your claim that one cannot read while listening. No Church father, doctor or saint says such a thing, and I have never encountered this before. Even basic psychology notes that an individual reinforces their cognizance if there are multiple sensory (name removed by moderator)uts and there is cognitive/affective concordance between them. Whilst this does not mean everybody is compelled to listen and read if listening is already good enough, it does show that people who do listen and read at the same time are not actually interfering with their ability to listen or understand what is being proclaimed, but rather reinforcing it.

I hope this helps.