RCIA: Former Church Won't Help Me "Apostasize" by Verifying Baptism

  • Thread starter Thread starter de_Tocqueville
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

de_Tocqueville

Guest
So I was raised Baptist and have been on the journey for some time now. It has not been easy. I’ve had some issues with isolation and loneliness. It’s been a trying time for me, but I’ve learned that it’s through fire that steel is forged. I also take heart from the saints, St. Thomas More especially, who I believe wrote that, “Tribulation is a gift from God; one that he especially gives His special friends.”
One of the struggles has been ensuring that my baptism was acceptable. I was baptized at 11 years old in a small traditional Calvinist Reformed Baptist Church. There were no baptismal certificates or anything like that. (I had a thought that it would be nice if they made certificates in case anyone ever wanted to convert. This made me laugh. :rotfl:) Fortunately, I at least know the date and have a picture of myself with the pastor taken minutes after the baptism.
But I wrote to the church to tell them I am becoming Catholic and ask that they verify the details of my baptism, primarily that I was baptized in the trinitarian formula required by the Church. This is an inherently anti-Catholic church, so I realize I may have been putting them in a tough spot by asking such a request.
The response I got I think would shock many Catholics who aren’t all that familiar with fundamentalist Calvinist Protestantism. I wasn’t too surprised though.
I was written back with an argument that Catholicism is not Biblical, historically Christian, and a false religion. I was told the church leaders were very upset and see what I’m doing as “a departure from the faith and therefore feel your previous baptism is being nullified. We also have no wish to aid you in joining what we see is an apostate church…We assume that you want a formal letter with this information so that they will accept your baptism and you won’t have to be baptized again. But by joiing them we feel your baptism was false and we do not want it to be used to help you join the Catholic Church.”
I understand they do believe they’re doing this for my own good, but I’m not quite sure how to take this.
I guess I don’t really have any reason to believe my baptism was invalid, but I’m pretty obsessive compulsive and anxiety-ridden in general :frighten: so a letter would have been nice! The ironic thing is, the letter he sent me is on church letterhead and implicitly acknowledges that I was indeed baptized. So maybe this letter bashing the Catholic Church will go into my file in place of a baptismal certificate! But do they have any ability to say, “No we don’t want to let your baptism count, so it doesn’t.”?
I’ve already given the letter to my priest. He seems a bit niave about the type of anti-Catholic environment I came from. I’m sure he’ll be quite amused after he’s read this letter, and we’ll see where to go from here.
But as I prepare for Lent and Confirmation, I’d really rather not be stressing over this…
 
Could you possibly get any family members or anyone else who was present at your baptism to make a written statement that it occurred and that the Trinitarian formula was used? If you could do so that would be sufficient evidence even without a baptismal certificate.
 
de_Tocqueville said:
So I was raised Baptist and have been on the journey for some time now. It has not been easy. I’ve had some issues with isolation and loneliness. It’s been a trying time for me, but I’ve learned that it’s through fire that steel is forged. I also take heart from the saints, St. Thomas More especially, who I believe wrote that, “Tribulation is a gift from God; one that he especially gives His special friends.”
One of the struggles has been ensuring that my baptism was acceptable. I was baptized at 11 years old in a small traditional Calvinist Reformed Baptist Church. There were no baptismal certificates or anything like that. (I had a thought that it would be nice if they made certificates in case anyone ever wanted to convert. This made me laugh. :rotfl:) Fortunately, I at least know the date and have a picture of myself with the pastor taken minutes after the baptism.
But I wrote to the church to tell them I am becoming Catholic and ask that they verify the details of my baptism, primarily that I was baptized in the trinitarian formula required by the Church. This is an inherently anti-Catholic church, so I realize I may have been putting them in a tough spot by asking such a request.
The response I got I think would shock many Catholics who aren’t all that familiar with fundamentalist Calvinist Protestantism. I wasn’t too surprised though.
I was written back with an argument that Catholicism is not Biblical, historically Christian, and a false religion. I was told the church leaders were very upset and see what I’m doing as “a departure from the faith and therefore feel your previous baptism is being nullified. We also have no wish to aid you in joining what we see is an apostate church…We assume that you want a formal letter with this information so that they will accept your baptism and you won’t have to be baptized again. But by joiing them we feel your baptism was false and we do not want it to be used to help you join the Catholic Church.”
I understand they do believe they’re doing this for my own good, but I’m not quite sure how to take this.
I guess I don’t really have any reason to believe my baptism was invalid, but I’m pretty obsessive compulsive and anxiety-ridden in general :frighten: so a letter would have been nice! The ironic thing is, the letter he sent me is on church letterhead and implicitly acknowledges that I was indeed baptized. So maybe this letter bashing the Catholic Church will go into my file in place of a baptismal certificate! But do they have any ability to say, “No we don’t want to let your baptism count, so it doesn’t.”?
I’ve already given the letter to my priest. He seems a bit niave about the type of anti-Catholic environment I came from. I’m sure he’ll be quite amused after he’s read this letter, and we’ll see where to go from here.
But as I prepare for Lent and Confirmation, I’d really rather not be stressing over this…
Click to expand...
First, I would imitate Christ as He did on the cross, He asked for the forgiveness of those who crucified Him…ask for the forgiveness of your former pastor.

Then I would not fret or worry over this, I would pray for guidance and put my trust in the Lord’s wisdom and divine providence, that all will be ok. I would suggest to talk immediately with your parish priest, so that he is aware, and ask for his guidance. I am sure the parish priest will know what to do. If he says, to be sure, you need to be baptized, I would abide by it, remembering that Christ gave our priest the power to bind and lose.

Just keep your focus on Lent and your coming confirmation and your receiving the Eucharist for the first time. This is so much more important than anything else.

Find your strength in the Lord and remain steadfast.
 
LilyM said:
Could you possibly get any family members or anyone else who was present at your baptism to make a written statement that it occurred and that the Trinitarian formula was used? If you could do so that would be sufficient evidence even without a baptismal certificate.
Click to expand...
To the OP: First, pray for them, as they need it. Second, you may have a “conditional Baptism”, which will be administered since the original cannot (will not) be verified.
 
^ That’s what I was going to suggest. A conditional baptism might be the best solution if your previous baptism cannot be verified. That way the Catholic Church knows for certain that you have been baptized correctly.
 
No fretting, no worries, Your priest will know how to handle this all…
And most of all…Welcome Home. May our Lord bless you overabundantly on your journey.
 
de_Tocqueville said:
So I so a letter would have been nice! The ironic thing is, the letter he sent me is on church letterhead and implicitly acknowledges that I was indeed baptized. So maybe this letter bashing the Catholic Church will go into my file in place of a baptismal certificate! But do they have any ability to say, “No we don’t want to let your baptism count, so it doesn’t.”?
I’ve already given the letter to my priest. He seems a bit niave about the type of anti-Catholic environment I came from. I’m sure he’ll be quite amused after he’s read this letter, and we’ll see where to go from here.
But as I prepare for Lent and Confirmation, I’d really rather not be stressing over this…
Click to expand...
yes the letter did what you asked, affirmed the fact of you baptism, you can also have witnesses who were present sign an affidavit as to the date etc. I am sure your priest is not naive but only trying to be charitable. If you were of age (at least school age) your own testimony suffices.

Welcome home
 
=de Tocqueville;7619006]So I was raised Baptist and have been on the journey for some time now. It has not been easy. I’ve had some issues with isolation and loneliness. It’s been a trying time for me, but I’ve learned that it’s through fire that steel is forged. I also take heart from the saints, St. Thomas More especially, who I believe wrote that, “Tribulation is a gift from God; one that he especially gives His special friends.”
One of the struggles has been ensuring that my baptism was acceptable. I was baptized at 11 years old in a small traditional Calvinist Reformed Baptist Church. There were no baptismal certificates or anything like that. (I had a thought that it would be nice if they made certificates in case anyone ever wanted to convert. This made me laugh. :rotfl:) Fortunately, I at least know the date and have a picture of myself with the pastor taken minutes after the baptism.
But I wrote to the church to tell them I am becoming Catholic and ask that they verify the details of my baptism, primarily that I was baptized in the trinitarian formula required by the Church. This is an inherently anti-Catholic church, so I realize I may have been putting them in a tough spot by asking such a request.
The response I got I think would shock many Catholics who aren’t all that familiar with fundamentalist Calvinist Protestantism. I wasn’t too surprised though.
I was written back with an argument that Catholicism is not Biblical, historically Christian, and a false religion. I was told the church leaders were very upset and see what I’m doing as “a departure from the faith and therefore feel your previous baptism is being nullified. We also have no wish to aid you in joining what we see is an apostate church…We assume that you want a formal letter with this information so that they will accept your baptism and you won’t have to be baptized again. But by joiing them we feel your baptism was false and we do not want it to be used to help you join the Catholic Church.”
I understand they do believe they’re doing this for my own good, but I’m not quite sure how to take this.
I guess I don’t really have any reason to believe my baptism was invalid, but I’m pretty obsessive compulsive and anxiety-ridden in general :frighten: so a letter would have been nice! The ironic thing is, the letter he sent me is on church letterhead and implicitly acknowledges that I was indeed baptized. So maybe this letter bashing the Catholic Church will go into my file in place of a baptismal certificate! But do they have any ability to say, “No we don’t want to let your baptism count, so it doesn’t.”?
I’ve already given the letter to my priest. He seems a bit niave about the type of anti-Catholic environment I came from. I’m sure he’ll be quite amused after he’s read this letter, and we’ll see where to go from here.
But as I prepare for Lent and Confirmation, I’d really rather not be stressing over this…
Click to expand...
Wecome HOME friend!

This can be easily over-come by providing a witness to your baptism. If you have not already done so, dicuss it with your priest; who ought not be surprised at all about the positions of other “faiths”. 🙂

God Continued Blessings,
Pat
 
Sadly, the people that wrote that letter are themselves in a state of sin, and denying their own Baptism.

I suspect that the pastor of your Church will be able to accept this document to prove that you were in fact baptized. If not, then you will most likely receive a “Conditional Baptism”, which is the same in all respects, except that the church states that since it can not be determined if you received a baptism in the proper form, this baptism is conditional on the idea that you did not.

In other words, you undergo baptism, as if you had never been baptized. If you were validly baptized before, your “new baptism” has no actual effect. If you were NOT validly baptized before, then you will receive all of the graces of a valid baptism.
 
Whatever they say or however they feel about your becoming Catholic, makes not one jot of difference to the validity of the Baptism. If it was perfomed validly in the name of the Holy Trinity, then it is valid forever. Someone should tell them that they cannot take back your Baptism because they don’t agree with what you are doing. Don’t they know about the indelible character placed on your soul through Baptism? They will have to answer for their arrogance. Pray for them.
 
Hello and welcome home! Yet another former Baptist making the Tiber swim club, I seem to be in good company in my coming confirmation!

I agree with others who have said that no one can “nullify” a valid baptism. Also it seems to me the letter does prove you were in fact baptized. I believe pretty much all Calvinist reformed and Baptist churches only baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, so you should probably not need a new conditional baptism.

I think your mistake was telling them why you needed it! I just called the church office of the church I was baptized in, asked for a letter or certificate, and they mailed it out, no questions asked, but I suppose if they wanted to know why you wanted it things could get tricky. Not to worry though, and God’s grace be with you in your journey home to Rome!
 
Welcome home - it is a testimony to God’s everlasting Grace that you can come from that to the Catholic Church through His love. I think the letter will suffice as it proves you had your baptism. God bless.
 
Try to get a few notarized statements from any family/friends/witnesses. That may be helpful.

Also, it’s very important to know exactly which “Baptist” traditon you were baptized in.

If it was a Southern Baptist church that is a part of the recognized Southern Baptist Union, then you were most likely baptized in the “correct form” (Trinitarian).

You start running into problems with any baptism where it was not done according to the Trinitarian form ( In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit). There are some protestant denominations out there who do indeed baptize, however use a totally different form which denies the Trinity.

Your priest should be aware of which protestant denominations use an “incorrect form”, and will be able to direct you.
 
Everybody else beat me to it 🙂 but let me join everybody else in a hearty WELCOME HOME to the Church founded by Christ and protected by the Holy Spirit!

I am a fellow convert (two years ago), although from the United Methodist Church which is a bit more cooperative. Luckily my parents had my Baptismal Certificate so I didn’t even need to ask the church, but I’m sure they would have provided it.

I have many Baptist friends though (since I lived many years in southern Virginia, which is strong Baptist country), so I sympathize with your difficulty. Some of my friends did not take my conversion well :rolleyes:.

I can’t add anything to what everybody else already said. It’s not uncommon for RCIA candidates to have difficulty producing Baptismal Certificates. Your RCIA director and Priest(s) should know how to handle it.

The good news is that this will not be an impediment to your Confirmation! If your Priest is reasonably certain that you had a valid Baptism (he may need statements from people who witnessed it), then you’re good-to-go. Even if he isn’t, you can have a conditional Baptism. This is a Baptism where we basically say, “If the last one is good, ignore this one. If the last one was no-good, this one counts.”

I’m oversimplifying a bit, but you get the idea 🙂

Again, WELCOME! If you ever want to chat with a fellow convert, feel free to contact me.
 
Thank you all. I guess it’s not going to be an issue. My priest says we have enough information and the necessary details, despite the lack of cooperation from my old church. Thank you!
 
de_Tocqueville said:
Thank you all. I guess it’s not going to be an issue. My priest says we have enough information and the necessary details, despite the lack of cooperation from my old church. Thank you!
Click to expand...
Wonderful! Glad to hear it. If you have any further questions, don’t hesitate to ask here in the forums.

God bless you!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top