RCIA Liturgy

[benedictgal]

Well that makes a lot more sense. It just sounded from the original post like the poster was talking about composing things, rather than compiling them. I guess part of that is that “scripting” is not a great word to describe “compiling,” since it suggests composing, not faithfully putting things from four books into one. But that is my mistake. Of course, all of this is made even more suspicious to me by the idea of “new” terminology. And still the whole list of devotional activities seems strange to me, when it is missing any true liturgy. All those things are very lovely activities, but why is there no mass or liturgical hours involved? As people have mentioned, the Triduum services (to which I would like to add Tenebrae, since it is the Liturgical Hours for the Triduum). If the retreat is before Holy Week, perhaps a Mass of the Holy Spirit as part of the retreat? These liturgies are part of the core of the faith, whereas devotions are beautiful, but not central.

The only caveat with having a Mass of the Holy Spirit is that I believe that votive Masses are not allowed during Lent.

Something else to consider is that perhaps the Elect should be encouraged to participate in the parish Lenten activities, including the Stations of the Cross, as well as Tenebrae and the Liturgy of the Hours.

 

[FrancisB]

The only caveat with having a Mass of the Holy Spirit is that I believe that votive Masses are not allowed during Lent.

Something else to consider is that perhaps the Elect should be encouraged to participate in the parish Lenten activities, including the Stations of the Cross, as well as Tenebrae and the Liturgy of the Hours.

I was not aware that there were to be no votive masses during Lent. If that is the case, clearly that would not work. How about the daily mass for the day of the retreat then, or perhaps an EF mass, so that the catechumens could experience the old form of the mass as well as the new one.

But if the choir at your church is good, the Allegri “Miserere Mei, Deus” justifies Tenebrae on its own, let alone the rest of the service being so beautiful.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

And still the whole list of devotional activities seems strange to me, when it is missing any true liturgy. All those things are very lovely activities, but why is there no mass or liturgical hours involved?

What would be the point of planning a Mass for people who are not yet Catholic? And if we’re talking about preparation on Holy Saturday, no Mass would be allowed in any case.

In my parish we pray Lauds on Holy Saturday and the Elect who will be baptized that evening start their Saturday with that.

So for us, at least, we’ve covered the liturgical aspects of the day and any activities we plan for the Elect are outside of that.

 

[Joannm]

. I know, from experience, how exhausting the whole thing can be. After the last Mass on Easter Sunday, I would get home and simply crash.

That’s me as well. I usually meet my family at my mother in law’s and I just sleep on the sofa while they do whatever they are doing. They wake me up for dinner and then I sit and visit. At this point my family has not seen me for any significant length of time for two weeks. I also take off work on Easter Monday, but I am back at work on Tuesday.

 

[Joannm]

What would be the point of planning a Mass for people who are not yet Catholic? And if we’re talking about preparation on Holy Saturday, no Mass would be allowed in any case.

In my parish we pray Lauds on Holy Saturday and the Elect who will be baptized that evening start their Saturday with that.

So for us, at least, we’ve covered the liturgical aspects of the day and any activities we plan for the Elect are outside of that.

Right, and if they went to a Mass they would be dismissed after the homily anyway. it would be much better to do a reflection on the scriptures or pray one of the hours of the Liturgy of the Hours.

 

[benedictgal]

Right, and if they went to a Mass they would be dismissed after the homily anyway. it would be much better to do a reflection on the scriptures or pray one of the hours of the Liturgy of the Hours.

Now, the only time when they are not dismissed is at the Evening Mass of the Lord’s Supper.

 

[Joannm]

Now, the only time when they are not dismissed is at the Evening Mass of the Lord’s Supper.

We dismiss them after the washing of the feet before the intercessions. We also feel that by this time they are well used to breaking open the word so the team does not accompany them in order that they may fully participate int he Liturgy of the Eucharist. The Elect join us after Mass for prayer at the Altar of Repose.

On Godd Friday they are dismissed again on their own, before the intercessions to reflect on the readings. We found it has worked out well.

 

[KathieB]

Thanks to all who wrote me back, you have given me lots of info to digest. :thankyou:

Our parish has a relatively small team and we have had a need to spell out all of the responsibilities of team because multiple tasks would have to be organized by one member. Our group (with direction from published resources) has determined that the liturgist will be responsible for deciding how the rites are handled, e.g., which door will the candidates & catechumens enter, which rows of the church will they occupy, which side of the sanctuary will they stand, etc. Since our focus is on community we want the entire church body to be able to see what is going on during the rites.

I did mean that I was transcribing the rites to include the particular names, directions for the celebrant, etc. I in no way intended to rewrite the rite that our church has ascribed to for so many years. It worked this long, what could I possibly do better?

Our day of reflection is not held on Holy Saturday, but has been held the Saturday prior to Holy Week. Very definitely we make sure that we impress upon all of our participants, including sponsors and godparents to join in the Triduum events and for the most part they have and have been very moved by them. Traditionally, our RCIA candidates and catechumens have been included on the washing of feet. I think it might also be a great idea to think about having it right before Lent begins since we do want to work on spiritual growth as well.

I agree that the catechumens would not participate in Reconciliation, but we have always offered that they can use it as sort of a “practice run” and our priests have obliged.

A valid point on the works of mercy being included in preparation for baptism, however, I was coming at it from another standpoint. We are bringing these candidates and catechumens into full communion with our church and in particular my parish, so we want to include ministries that our church has that would depict the works of mercy.

Since we do have Stations each Friday during Lent perhaps that is also something that can be eliminated. Including morning prayer is also a good idea.

We do not plan on rehearsing our elect and recognized. We will rehearse the sponsors and godparents and they will lead their people. We do not stifle the Holy Spirit in our group by any means! We trust that with the Holy Spirit’s guidance all will go well.

Once again, thanks to all. You have made me realize that I have much to learn and I came to the right place to do just that.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

A bit of drift:

We used to rehearse the Vigil on Holy Saturday morning. I felt the need to have some prayer at that point; so suggested we do Morning Prayer from LOH. Monseigneur thought it a great idea but asked me to do it Thursday and Friday also. Now, three pastors later, we do the rehearsal a week earlier, but guess who is still assigned to organize Morning Prayer. To paraphrase Clare Booth Luce, " No good idea goes unpunished."

 

[puzzleannie]

Easter Sunday I sleep and I take the whole week off after Easter, one nap is not enough

What I do make for lent is a binder (well I already have it) with the Spanish and English on facing pages for the lenten rites, sending, election, scrutinies etc, and for the actual conferral of the sacraments, and I have one for each of the catechists, because during lent we have the entire group together–children, adults, English, Spanish. This helps me so I don’t have to juggle books.

I just put the same color coded tabs on Fathers ritual book that I have, so he remembers which options we have agreed on (which still does not prevent him from changing his mind in the actual event, but I try.) He generally will not permit “binders” or other compilations, but use of the actual books (except for the readings, which are copied from the missalette for the lectors, as we are not buying a Spanish lectionary until the new one is approved).

But I can certainly see the value of the director or liturgy guru having a binder with everything. But I would probably leave it in church anyhow in the confusion. If we tried to give a binder to everyone involved it would be a waste of time, because nobody reads even a simple one-page sign in big letters.

 

[FrDavid96]

You mean you compile a binder from the pre-approved texts, right? And you the rubrics (“directions”) from the same sources, right? Because last I checked only the pope had the power to change these things or create new prayers, etc., except at the Prayer of the Faithful. I understand that you might need to compile them and put in the people’s names and such, but there shouldn’t be any composing involved, just writing in the physical sense (or, more likely, typing). I’m sure the binder is beautiful and helpful, but it begs the question–why aren’t the liturgical books composed in a way that is conducive to being able to use them as they are meant to be used–at mass. And the age of RCIA is really not relevant. The liturgies–both those of the mass and the hours–are ancient. Baptism and confirmation are ancient rites. There shouldn’t be anything to script–unless by script you meant compile from other sources.

From the point of view of one who presides at the Easter Vigil, I can say that the official books are not very helpful in the way that the texts are arranged. I need the following books: Sacramentary, Lectionary (or at least a missallette to keep up with the readings), the Rite of Initiation (various official sources suffice here). The Sacramentary itself only refers to the rite of initiation, it doesn’t contain the actual complete text.

The other distracting thing for priests is that there are often several options presented: “either do A or do B” and I need to “flip ahead” once I’ve done A to find the end of B to see where I should begin again. It can be very confusing.

Add to that the fact that the ritual books present different scenarios: all the converts are previously baptised, all the converts are not-baptised, there is a mix of the two, there might even be an infant being baptised (and therefore not confirmed). Which option do I follow? Having some kind of “homemade” book does make things easier.

The first time I presided at the Easter Vigill was a disaster (from my point-of-view, as I think I did a decent job of recovering so that no one noticed). I prepared for it by reading the Sacramentary in the office. When I actually did the Mass, I learned too late that the previous pastor had gone through the Sacramentary that was left near the chair in the church. He had highlighted nearly every word of the Vigil (and in different colors no less). Some rubrics were highlighted, some texts were highlighted, and I could no longer tell the difference between the red and the black without squinting. Add to that the fact that he penciled-in names in the book (from who-knows-how-long-ago). He added his own rubrics in pencil and pen (no changes, but things like “get ready to stand up”), and some of the texts had been crossed-out (if he liked A, he not only highlighted A but he went through and crossed-out every line of B). I was a stressful time indeed.

Locally made books can be helpful, but I agree wholeheartedly with your caution that they must contain only the ritual and the words prescribed by the Church.

 

[FrDavid96]

I was not aware that there were to be no votive masses during Lent. If that is the case, clearly that would not work. How about the daily mass for the day of the retreat then, or perhaps an EF mass, so that the catechumens could experience the old form of the mass as well as the new one.

But if the choir at your church is good, the Allegri “Miserere Mei, Deus” justifies Tenebrae on its own, let alone the rest of the service being so beautiful.

I would caution against having a Mass for the Catechumens at the end of Lent. Remember that the Mass is something in which they are not yet able to fully participate. I see some conflict there. They have their own way of participating in the Mass on Sundays (until the dismissal, which is part of this participation), but we need to keep in mind that there is an element of the gathered-parish welcoming them on Sundays, and that element could not be there in a votive Mass (or perhaps I should say the Mass of the day, since votives can’t be used during Lent) celebrated only for them and their sponsors and catechists. It also brings up the question of what would be done at the time of the dismissal of the catechumens? Sure, we would follow the rubrics, but wouldn’t that be impractical since the catechists usually accompany the Elect? We would have a Liturgy of the Word, but once the Eucharistic Liturgy begins, most of those present would be gone.

This is just an opinion, but personally, I would be very hesitant to do so.

 

[KathieB]

From the point of view of one who presides at the Easter Vigil, I can say that the official books are not very helpful in the way that the texts are arranged. I need the following books: Sacramentary, Lectionary (or at least a missallette to keep up with the readings), the Rite of Initiation (various official sources suffice here). The Sacramentary itself only refers to the rite of initiation, it doesn’t contain the actual complete text.

The other distracting thing for priests is that there are often several options presented: “either do A or do B” and I need to “flip ahead” once I’ve done A to find the end of B to see where I should begin again. It can be very confusing.

Add to that the fact that the ritual books present different scenarios: all the converts are previously baptised, all the converts are not-baptised, there is a mix of the two, there might even be an infant being baptised (and therefore not confirmed). Which option do I follow? Having some kind of “homemade” book does make things easier.

The first time I presided at the Easter Vigill was a disaster (from my point-of-view, as I think I did a decent job of recovering so that no one noticed). I prepared for it by reading the Sacramentary in the office. When I actually did the Mass, I learned too late that the previous pastor had gone through the Sacramentary that was left near the chair in the church. He had highlighted nearly every word of the Vigil (and in different colors no less). Some rubrics were highlighted, some texts were highlighted, and I could no longer tell the difference between the red and the black without squinting. Add to that the fact that he penciled-in names in the book (from who-knows-how-long-ago). He added his own rubrics in pencil and pen (no changes, but things like “get ready to stand up”), and some of the texts had been crossed-out (if he liked A, he not only highlighted A but he went through and crossed-out every line of B). I was a stressful time indeed.

Locally made books can be helpful, but I agree wholeheartedly with your caution that they must contain only the ritual and the words prescribed by the Church.

Thank you, Fr David, you have said all of that much better than I did. We are simply trying to help the celebrant with the flow of the rite without holding things up so he can find the next thing he’s supposed to be doing. At the beginning of our rite, we have traditionally (usually it’s been the RCIA leader) to give a short statement to the congregation to let them know what is about to happen. Is that a permissible thing to include before the Rite actually begins?

As far as having a retreat day, we will have it the Saturday before Holy Week as we’ve always had it, I’m most certain of that. As it is now, we might be going to the diocese and participate in their activity, but I think it so important to have our people get to know their parish better and that was to be the focus of my day of prayer.

 

[benedictgal]

Thank you, Fr David, you have said all of that much better than I did. We are simply trying to help the celebrant with the flow of the rite without holding things up so he can find the next thing he’s supposed to be doing. At the beginning of our rite, we have traditionally (usually it’s been the RCIA leader) to give a short statement to the congregation to let them know what is about to happen. Is that a permissible thing to include before the Rite actually begins?

As far as having a retreat day, we will have it the Saturday before Holy Week as we’ve always had it, I’m most certain of that. As it is now, we might be going to the diocese and participate in their activity, but I think it so important to have our people get to know their parish better and that was to be the focus of my day of prayer.

If you have worship aids for the Easter Vigil, I would include an explanation about what is happening. However, the seasonal misalettes already have a pretty good explanation. Also, you could explain the Rites in bulletin annuoncements leading up to Holy Week and encourage your parish to pray for the Elect and the Candidates as they reach the culmination of their journey into the Church. This, to me, sounds better than someone commenting on the Rites during the Mass. Let the beauty of the Rites speak for themselves.

 

[FrDavid96]

Thank you, Fr David, you have said all of that much better than I did. We are simply trying to help the celebrant with the flow of the rite without holding things up so he can find the next thing he’s supposed to be doing. At the beginning of our rite, we have traditionally (usually it’s been the RCIA leader) to give a short statement to the congregation to let them know what is about to happen. Is that a permissible thing to include before the Rite actually begins?

As far as having a retreat day, we will have it the Saturday before Holy Week as we’ve always had it, I’m most certain of that. As it is now, we might be going to the diocese and participate in their activity, but I think it so important to have our people get to know their parish better and that was to be the focus of my day of prayer.

As for the introduction, that realy should not be done. The Liturgy is something which should be experienced. Too much explanation detracts from that experience. Sometimes it might be necessary. But the Easter Vigil is the single most sacred moment in the Church’s year. This is a time for solemnity not explanation.

There are some brief explanations in the rite itself, but the words for these are provided by the Church. They are to-the-point and they say all that needs to be said. The words can be changed slightly, but something entirely different cannot be done.

Remember that the congregation already knows what is about to happen at the rites of initiation (even those who only come to Mass on Christmas and Easter will remember last Easter). Were they not there all through Lent to experience the scrutinies, etc? Why disturb the solemnity of the moment by telling people what they already know? Most of them are following along in the missallettes anyway, and can see for themselves that the rites of initiation are about to begin. Any introduction is merely a distraction and does more harm to the integrity of the ritual than it does anything beneficial.

And if the Elect do not know exactly what is about to happen…all the better. That’s part of their experience of initiation, and explanations only cheat them of that sense of mystery and awe. I’m not saying they should be entirely ignorant (as they were in Apostolic times), but neither should they know every detail ahead of time.

I say let the liturgy flow. Let the liturgy itself speak to people, and let their experience of what’s happening speak to them. By the time we are in the midst of the Vigil Mass itself, the time for explanations has long since passed.

In our society we do not place enough value on the ritual itself. However, we place entirely too much value on “recognizing” people. We give too much value to having someone stand up and say a few remarks, say their own words of welcome, offer thanks, or recognize those who are catechumens and catechists. These remarks belong in their proper context–perhaps a reception in the parish hall after the Mass. We need to restore the value of solemnity and dignity to the Mass, and once again allow the Church’s Liturgy to speak to us.

 

[KathieB]

As for the introduction, that realy should not be done. The Liturgy is something which should be experienced. Too much explanation detracts from that experience. Sometimes it might be necessary. But the Easter Vigil is the single most sacred moment in the Church’s year. This is a time for solemnity not explanation.

There are some brief explanations in the rite itself, but the words for these are provided by the Church. They are to-the-point and they say all that needs to be said. The words can be changed slightly, but something entirely different cannot be done.

Remember that the congregation already knows what is about to happen at the rites of initiation (even those who only come to Mass on Christmas and Easter will remember last Easter). Were they not there all through Lent to experience the scrutinies, etc? Why disturb the solemnity of the moment by telling people what they already know? Most of them are following along in the missallettes anyway, and can see for themselves that the rites of initiation are about to begin. Any introduction is merely a distraction and does more harm to the integrity of the ritual than it does anything beneficial.

And if the Elect do not know exactly what is about to happen…all the better. That’s part of their experience of initiation, and explanations only cheat them of that sense of mystery and awe. I’m not saying they should be entirely ignorant (as they were in Apostolic times), but neither should they know every detail ahead of time.

I say let the liturgy flow. Let the liturgy itself speak to people, and let their experience of what’s happening speak to them. By the time we are in the midst of the Vigil Mass itself, the time for explanations has long since passed.

In our society we do not place enough value on the ritual itself. However, we place entirely too much value on “recognizing” people. We give too much value to having someone stand up and say a few remarks, say their own words of welcome, offer thanks, or recognize those who are catechumens and catechists. These remarks belong in their proper context–perhaps a reception in the parish hall after the Mass. We need to restore the value of solemnity and dignity to the Mass, and once again allow the Church’s Liturgy to speak to us.

Once again, I apologize for not being more detailed in my statements. So much happens that it is important to make sure I ask the right questions for the right rite! In particular, I speak at this point of the Rite of Welcoming the Candidates. Basically, it is just a few paragraphs speaking of their journey and this is their beginning of it toward full communion with our parish. It sounds to me like you would just eliminate all of that and just get into the Greeting of the rite and go from there.

I definitely concur that the Easter Vigil needs no explanation and the liturgy should and will speak fo ritself.

Thank you for your words of wisdom, Father, I really appreciate them!

 

[FrDavid96]

Once again, I apologize for not being more detailed in my statements. So much happens that it is important to make sure I ask the right questions for the right rite! In particular, I speak at this point of the Rite of Welcoming the Candidates. Basically, it is just a few paragraphs speaking of their journey and this is their beginning of it toward full communion with our parish. It sounds to me like you would just eliminate all of that and just get into the Greeting of the rite and go from there.

I definitely concur that the Easter Vigil needs no explanation and the liturgy should and will speak fo ritself.

Thank you for your words of wisdom, Father, I really appreciate them!

I just went through the RCIA book (no, I didn’t read every page!) and I can’t find a “Rite of Welcoming.” What is that? Give me a reference point and I’ll check to see what the ritual says, then get back to you. Thanks.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I just went through the RCIA book (no, I didn’t read every page!) and I can’t find a “Rite of Welcoming.” What is that? Give me a reference point and I’ll check to see what the ritual says, then get back to you. Thanks.

In the Study Edition of the Rite it’s part 4a starting with paragraph 411.

 

[FrDavid96]

In the Study Edition of the Rite it’s part 4a starting with paragraph 411.

Sure enough, I didn’t see it. Since it only applies if everyone is an already-baptised, uncathecised adult, I missed it (I didn’t look closely enough at that section).

KathieB: is this what you’re asking about???

 

[KathieB]

Sure enough, I didn’t see it. Since it only applies if everyone is an already-baptised, uncathecised adult, I missed it (I didn’t look closely enough at that section).

KathieB: is this what you’re asking about???

Yes, Fr David, that is exactly the section I’m referring to. Thank you