RCIA or COnfirmation

[Dicerning]

Hello

This question is directed towards those of you who are in lead catechetical positions in your parish. (Benny gal, puzzleannie)

The lord has given me the duty to lead our confirmation class this year. I have taken graduate level catechetics for my (1/2 done ) deacon formation class. I have held my first Class this past Sunday for our youth. I must admit it went VERY well and the kids are VERY serious about this class…it was very refreshing. My parish DRE (who has some major issues with power and status) invited a nice young college sophomore to join our class at the last moment. I asked the young lady her background. She tells me that she went to Catholic School and decided that confirmation was NOT for her during those years. She is a college athlete and was VERY involved in sports throughout high school thus resulting in her not completing the confirmation process. This young gal is serious about the faith.

My concern is the fact that she is a very mature and intelligent college sophomore in class with 9th graders. In all honesty she is versed in the Catholic Faith and quite easily could teach the confirmation class herself. TO make a long story short (er) our DRE harbors great animosity towards our parish deacon in charge of RCIA. I believe the young college student hasn’t been informed that she could attend RCIA instead of confirmation.
My question is this. Should a sophomore in college be in RCIA to eventually end in confirmation or should she be with the 9th graders. My opinion is that she should be in RCIA which is most excellently taught by a wonderful deacon. Keep in mind she attends a very elite liberal arts college that only takes TOP students. I do know she is well versed in Philosophy.

Thank you
Discerning.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Ask the parish priest and let him decide. As pastor of the flock, its his decision. At the start of the school year we did the same thing where we had older kids who never had first communion joined younger kids last year. This year since they are eligible for confirmation, we wondered if we should just have them skip grades and join the grade level of their age which also is preparation for confirmation. We had our pastor make the decision, its just the right thing to do.

To throw my own two cents in, I think the parish pastor should also assess if she needs to attend classes at all. I know some parish priests are very formal and want them to go through a program, some would see that there is no spiritual advantage gained by going through a program if the person is already well catechized. If your pastor is such that he wants everyone to go through a program then have the young lady attend RCIA which is geared more to a mature audience than a grade 10/11 confirmation preparation class.

 

[Phemie]

Do you worry that she won’t get enough out of the class she’s in?

You say she’s very well versed in her faith, so does she really need any class? Won’t being in a class with people who aren’t catechized be a waste for her?

Even though most parishes shove everyone, catechized, non-catechized and catechumen together in RCIA, is that what she needs at this point?

 

[5Loaves]

Mcollege sophomore to join our class at the last moment. I asked the young lady her background. She tells me that she went to Catholic School and decided that confirmation was NOT for her during those years. … In all honesty she is versed in the Catholic Faith.

The RCIA Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults is for those who wish to convert to the Christian faith ("the term convert should be reserved strictly for those converted from unbelief to Christian belief and never used of those baptized Christians who are received into full communion of the Catholic Church), and those Christians baptized in another ecclesial community (another Christian church).

Am I right in understanding that the young woman was baptized in a Catholic Church?

Those who have been baptized in the Catholic Church (and in an Orthodox Church) do not belong in the RCIA. The term “RCIA” is often used. Typically the local ordinary (bishop) will confirm himself all adult Catholics once a year. Preparation for these adults, of which your young woman would be included, happens at a different time and place from the instruction for candidates, and the instruction for catecheumens. In some parishes they might be part of the Candidates (baptized Christians) group for a time if they wish to be, but then have their own preparation for their confirmation by the bishop. We do these classes at the Deanery level combining the 4 parishes of our Deanery since we have only one or two adult Catholics preparing to complete their sacraments in a couple of the parishes in our Deanery.

If she is the only adult Catholic in the parish seeking confirmation she can see what other local parish has preparation for adult Catholics going on.

Are you in the US? The National Statutes for the Catechumenate. Approved by the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, and Confirmed by Congregation of Divine Worship can be found here beginning on pg 363

 

[Dicerning]

The RCIA Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults is for those who wish to convert to the Christian faith ("the term convert should be reserved strictly for those converted from unbelief to Christian belief and never used of those baptized Christians who are received into full communion of the Catholic Church), and those Christians baptized in another ecclesial community (another Christian church).

Am I right in understanding that the young woman was baptized in a Catholic Church?

Those who have been baptized in the Catholic Church (and in an Orthodox Church) do not belong in the RCIA. The term “RCIA” is often used. Typically the local ordinary (bishop) will confirm himself all adult Catholics once a year. Preparation for these adults, of which your young woman would be included, happens at a different time and place from the instruction for candidates, and the instruction for catecheumens. In some parishes they might be part of the Candidates (baptized Christians) group for a time if they wish to be, but then have their own preparation for their confirmation by the bishop. We do these classes at the Deanery level combining the 4 parishes of our Deanery since we have only one or two adult Catholics preparing to complete their sacraments in a couple of the parishes in our Deanery.

If she is the only adult Catholic in the parish seeking confirmation she can see what other local parish has preparation for adult Catholics going on.

Are you in the US? The National Statutes for the Catechumenate. Approved by the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, and Confirmed by Congregation of Divine Worship can be found here beginning on pg 363

oh silly me. I always get a chuckle out of the “find another parish” comments. I am sure the poor girl doesn’t want to drive 60 miles round trip for the “other parish” option. I keep forgetting that many of our urban dwellers think inside the bubble of having many options…when in reality there are millions of Catholics that have only one Catholic church within their town…which is often (in your food source the heartland) miles and miles away from another parish. Also I was not being accurate with the RCIA option. My parish has the catch all for adults. THis poor girl doesn’t really need to be crammed in with the 9th graders. As for my parish priest…God bless him…he isn’t much help. he is a modernist who looks to the laity for leadership.

 

[Joannm]

She doesn’t belong in RCIA. If it is determined that she must be in the class, involve her as an assistant. Ask her to read ahead or research some issues and help with the kids. The will make it more interesting for her and perhaps will encourage her to eventually volunteer as a catechist.

 

[nickybr38]

oh silly me. I always get a chuckle out of the “find another parish” comments. I am sure the poor girl doesn’t want to drive 60 miles round trip for the “other parish” option. I keep forgetting that many of our urban dwellers think inside the bubble of having many options…when in reality there are millions of Catholics that have only one Catholic church within their town…which is often (in your food source the heartland) miles and miles away from another parish. Also I was not being accurate with the RCIA option. My parish has the catch all for adults. THis poor girl doesn’t really need to be crammed in with the 9th graders. As for my parish priest…God bless him…he isn’t much help. he is a modernist who looks to the laity for leadership.

Yikes. Sounds like you live in the same town I do. Sometimes I think parish hopping is just about as bad as Church hopping. Why not stick it out and figure out a solution instead of running the minute things get difficult?

My advice would be I don’t know which option would be right for her but whatever option she takes being stuck in a class with 9th graders or in RCIA where she’ll be reviewing things she already knows is that either option will be an opportunity for internal growth.

My RCIA class is a complete waste of mental effort BUT it has been teaching me a great deal about patience. I endure it, I don’t enjoy it, but after two months I have gone from so frustrated I was frothing to pretty calm and resigned. Haha.

I would suggest you maybe sponsor her though. Either way she’ll probably need someone to talk to. Maybe to vent, maybe to rejoice… who knows. It never hurts to be a listening ear.

Good luck!

 

[ConstantineTG]

oh silly me. I always get a chuckle out of the “find another parish” comments. I am sure the poor girl doesn’t want to drive 60 miles round trip for the “other parish” option. I keep forgetting that many of our urban dwellers think inside the bubble of having many options…when in reality there are millions of Catholics that have only one Catholic church within their town…which is often (in your food source the heartland) miles and miles away from another parish. Also I was not being accurate with the RCIA option. My parish has the catch all for adults. THis poor girl doesn’t really need to be crammed in with the 9th graders. As for my parish priest…God bless him…he isn’t much help. he is a modernist who looks to the laity for leadership.

Then who’s taking the leadership with this? That person should make a decision. If its up to you, then just talk to the girl and assess where she is at with her catechisis. If you think she’ll do fine without attending a class either in RCIA or CCD then tell her to come back one week before Easter to get ready for confirmation.

I think we should rename RCIA to something else if parishes are using it as a catch-all program. I know our parish did it, RCIA was not only for those entering the faith but also as adult catechisis as well for Catholics. I guess in a way it makes sense since the lessons are from the Catechism, no reason why Catholics who are not well catechized cannot come and learn. But it should be renamed to ease the confusion.

 

[Dicerning]

Then who’s taking the leadership with this? That person should make a decision. If its up to you, then just talk to the girl and assess where she is at with her catechisis. If you think she’ll do fine without attending a class either in RCIA or CCD then tell her to come back one week before Easter to get ready for confirmation.

I think we should rename RCIA to something else if parishes are using it as a catch-all program. I know our parish did it, RCIA was not only for those entering the faith but also as adult catechisis as well for Catholics. I guess in a way it makes sense since the lessons are from the Catechism, no reason why Catholics who are not well catechized cannot come and learn. But it should be renamed to ease the confusion.

THis is good advice. I belive I will talk with my parish deacon and ask this young lady if she would like to move to the catch all group. She is well versed just hasn’t revceived that sacrament. Perhaps we will taylor her training to suit her needs. she will be a wonderful Catholic. I am sure I will catch some heat from our fanatical DRE but I don’t care. This girl dos NOT belong with 9th graders she is a top scholar who is has a desire to teach philosphy some day at the graduate level.

 

[1ke]

My parish DRE (who has some major issues with power and status) invited a nice young college sophomore to join our class at the last moment.

Your parish DRE is completely out of it if she believes this is (a) necessary or (b) the best way to prepare this young lady for confirmation.

An adult who is catechized and spiritually prepared for Confirmation need only meet with the pastor and discuss the details-- will they wait for the Bishop’s regularly scheduled teen or adult confirmation or will/can the pastor seek permission to do the confirmation, etc.

There is no reason to put an adult in a class with teens.

TO make a long story short (er) our DRE harbors great animosity towards our parish deacon in charge of RCIA. I believe the young college student hasn’t been informed that she could attend RCIA instead of confirmation.

RCIA is also not the right place for an adult, catechized Catholic seeking to complete their sacraments.

Proximate preparation need be only a couple of meetings (not a year long course) with someone such as yourself or the pastor followed by confirmation with the bishop at the appropriate time or the pastor if the bishop will delegate the faculty.

My question is this. Should a sophomore in college be in RCIA to eventually end in confirmation or should she be with the 9th graders.

**
Neither.**
She should be in either a short, 6 week or less, adult confirmation program OR have a couple of meetings with the priest to assess readiness and then she should be recommended to the Bishop for confirmation.

 

[1ke]

oh silly me. I always get a chuckle out of the “find another parish” comments. I am sure the poor girl doesn’t want to drive 60 miles round trip for the “other parish” option. I keep forgetting that many of our urban dwellers think inside the bubble of having many options…when in reality there are millions of Catholics that have only one Catholic church within their town…which is often (in your food source the heartland) miles and miles away from another parish. Also I was not being accurate with the RCIA option. My parish has the catch all for adults. THis poor girl doesn’t really need to be crammed in with the 9th graders.

A small parish should be even easier. Meet with her privately a couple of times. Find a good book on the Sacrament of Confirmation itself.

As for my parish priest…God bless him…he isn’t much help. he is a modernist who looks to the laity for leadership.

Well, then lead. Tell the pastor she is ready for Confirmation and declare her catechesis complete.

 

[puzzleannie]

My question is this. Should a sophomore in college be in RCIA to eventually end in confirmation or should she be with the 9th graders. .

philosophy being beside the point, is the young lady CAtholic? it sounds as if the answer is yes. no she does not belong in RCIA which is for the unbaptized or for baptized non-CAtholics seeking full communion with the Church.

No she does not belong in a class with 9th graders for Confirmation, either. I can’t see her sanity lasting more than a couple of weeks in that milieu, although I do offer that as an option for people whose work presents schedule problems, In those cases, the adult functions as an aide to the catechist, and learns the content with the candidates, but has the benefit of the additional catechist meetings and trainings.

Every parish with the luxury of a full time DRE and a deacon who is running adult classes should have a class for adult confirmation of baptized Catholics. The difficulty there is differentiating between those who are otherwise well catechized (as she probably is) and those who are essentially uncatechised. It is for the benefit of the latter group, as well as a practical matter of resources and logistics, that all adults end up lumped in a group called “RCIA” and are only sorted out when time for the various rites rolls around.

1ke’s answers, as usual, is spot on.

another option if the pastor and DRE insist she attend class for an entire year, is to ask her to function as a de facto sponsor for others in RCIA without the benefit of her background. a personal introduction to the deacon would be in order here.

 

[Barbkw]

"The RCIA Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults is for those who wish to convert to the Christian faith (“the term convert should be reserved strictly for those converted from unbelief to Christian belief and never used of those baptized Christians who are received into full communion of the Catholic Church), and those Christians baptized in another ecclesial community (another Christian church).”

I’m an RCIA sponsor.

We have multiple numbers of baptized Catholics who are in RCIA for first Eucharist / Confirmation (or) only for Confirmation.

 

[1ke]

"The RCIA Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults is for those who wish to convert to the Christian faith (“the term convert should be reserved strictly for those converted from unbelief to Christian belief and never used of those baptized Christians who are received into full communion of the Catholic Church), and those Christians baptized in another ecclesial community (another Christian church).”

I’m an RCIA sponsor.

We have multiple numbers of baptized Catholics who are in RCIA for first Eucharist / Confirmation (or) only for Confirmation.

The fact that your parish improperly places baptized Catholics into RCIA does not change the fact that RCIA is not for baptized Catholics.

 

[anp1215]

Yikes. Sounds like you live in the same town I do. Sometimes I think parish hopping is just about as bad as Church hopping. Why not stick it out and figure out a solution instead of running the minute things get difficult?

My advice would be I don’t know which option would be right for her but whatever option she takes being stuck in a class with 9th graders or in RCIA where she’ll be reviewing things she already knows is that either option will be an opportunity for internal growth.

My RCIA class is a complete waste of mental effort BUT it has been teaching me a great deal about patience. I endure it, I don’t enjoy it, but after two months I have gone from so frustrated I was frothing to pretty calm and resigned. Haha.

I would suggest you maybe sponsor her though. Either way she’ll probably need someone to talk to. Maybe to vent, maybe to rejoice… who knows. It never hurts to be a listening ear.

Good luck!

I feel sometimes like my RCIA classes are a waste too
We have had a few well-taught classes, but several more that were poorly taught. It is so frustrating that I have felt like leaving, but instead my sponsors and I are having a meeting with our pastor about it.

 

[jmcrae]

The fact that your parish improperly places baptized Catholics into RCIA does not change the fact that RCIA is not for baptized Catholics.

There is actually a process in the RCIA for uncatechized Catholics, to prepare them for First Reconciliation, Confirmation, and First Holy Communion, just as there is for non-Catholic Christians.

It is a myth that the RCIA is only for the unbaptized - there are actually three streams of RCIA - one for the unbaptized, one for baptized non-Catholics, and one for baptized, uncatechized Catholics.

Read through every page of the whole Rite rather than just taking someone’s word for it; you will see these three different processes for yourself.

In the case of this woman, it seems as if she is Catholic, and reasonably well-catechized. If it were me, I would recommend that she receive her Sacraments at the earliest possible opportunity.

 

[ConstantineTG]

There is actually a process in the RCIA for uncatechized Catholics, to prepare them for First Reconciliation, Confirmation, and First Holy Communion, just as there is for non-Catholic Christians.

It is a myth that the RCIA is only for the unbaptized - there are actually three streams of RCIA - one for the unbaptized, one for baptized non-Catholics, and one for baptized, uncatechized Catholics.

Read through every page of the whole Rite rather than just taking someone’s word for it; you will see these three different processes for yourself.

In the case of this woman, it seems as if she is Catholic, and reasonably well-catechized. If it were me, I would recommend that she receive her Sacraments at the earliest possible opportunity.

I guess this makes sense. Thanks!

 

[Barbkw]

“*The fact that your parish improperly places baptized Catholics into RCIA does not change the fact that RCIA is not for baptized Catholics. *”

Why do you say this?

How many DREs, priests, and sponsors do you believe are available for a group of 25 individuals with various needs?

Our RCIA teaches from a great book with multiple handouts. This is my second year as a sponsor and I continue to learn more and more about the rites of initiation, the Sacraments and the Early Church.

RCIA is a wonderful program for all Catholics, particularly for Catholic reverts with children. The information they learn there, they are discussing with their children.

Last year I sponsored a Catholic mother of two who was returning to the Church for Confirmation. She loved RCIA even though she’s a single Mom with two children who works two jobs, and had to travel 24 mile round trip from her city to attend.

Catholics who attend RCIA are more willing participants in the Church after having attended and recieved the public rites.

 

[dconklin]

I am the Asst DRE at a large parish. Confirmation is not directly under my purview (I am responsible for preK to 7th grade) but I am a Confirmation Catechist. Situations like this are handled differently in many parishes. Not knowing all the details, it seems like she is fully catechized and just meeting the requirements the parish/diocese has set forth. If she is not a hindrance to the class, she is comfortable and the younger kids are comfortable, let it ride. You did not mention having a co or assistant catechist. She could also help out. Not by leading discussions on doctrine, but perhaps helping out by taking attendance, reading scripture and so forth. All catechism classes must have two adults.

 

[5Loaves]

oh silly me. I always get a chuckle out of the “find another parish” comments. I am sure the poor girl doesn’t want to drive 60 miles round trip for the “other parish” option. I keep forgetting that many of our urban dwellers think inside the bubble of having many options…when in reality there are millions of Catholics that have only one Catholic church within their town…which is often (in your food source the heartland) miles and miles away from another parish. Also I was not being accurate with the RCIA option. My parish has the catch all for adults. THis poor girl doesn’t really need to be crammed in with the 9th graders. As for my parish priest…God bless him…he isn’t much help. he is a modernist who looks to the laity for leadership.

I see I hit a nerve. I lived for a number of years in IN for callege and then grad school and am very grateful for the heartland (CA is also a farm state… but vineyards and strip mall are increasingly gobbling up our farmlands).

I won’t repeat what 1ke already said which I obviously concur with.

Your clarification of the kind of parish location you are in brings up another point which may seem off topic but I’ll mention anyway. The term “RCIA” is used loosely to cover many things, often times not following the The National Statutes for the Catechumenate. Approved by the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, and Confirmed by Congregation of Divine Worship. We are all doing our best to cover the individuals who come to us as not baptized, as Christians validly baptized, as Catholics who never completed their sacraments.

If you are in a fairly isolated area it might be nice if the parish could sponsor your DRE and others on the team such as yourself to attend some of the workshops offered by The North American Forum on the Catechumenate for example. They work directly from the Rites Books and the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults/Study Edition. The training our Diocese offers also uses these texts. We’ve benefited a lot from their workshops. Sometimes that means doing things differently from the way “we’ve always done it”. One of the first things that we “got” from our training was the deeper understanding of the reason why it is preferred that the Easter Vigil be reserved for Baptism, Confirmation and First Eucharist of the unbaptized, and the importance of fully honoring as we say we do, the baptism of all validly baptized Christians, confirming that baptism in fact sets them apart as members of the body of Christ in a way quite distinct from the non-baptized. (Yes there is the option of the combined Rite for the Easter Vigil that includes also Candidates seeking full communion with the Church.)

Anyway… it might be nice to support your parish DRE by making it possible for him/her to go to one of these national/regional trainings and have the fellowship of faithful catechists from other areas.

The FORUM now offers Webinars as well, although there is nothing like spending a couple of days fully immersed in studying and living the Rites.

The young woman you have brought up is not required to delay her Confirmation. As 1ke said in another post her needs should be easily and without unnecessary delay be handled in a small parish.

If she wishes to join in catechetical sessions offered under the “RCIA” umbrella of the parish that is another matter. Hopefully there are opportunities for adult formation of Catholics in the parish she can be encouraged to join.

Thank you for your work in the confirmation class for the younger Catholics in your parish!