RCIA problem

[nameless1]

I am a 45 year old male, who, after searching deeply many years decided that the Catholic church is where my heart and spirit was really drawn to.

Three people came to visit me at my apartment. They seemed very kind and helpful.
The next week, they even brought me a beautiful handmade rosary that took my breath away, along with a few prayer books.

They gave me information on how to join the program for people who haven’t been baptized and want to join the church. I told them that I have bad anxiety problems, but don’t have problems learning. The classes started on Sept. 11th and if all goes well I should be able to be baptized after Easter?

I do not have a way to get there to the church, but made it to the first RCIA class.
It was filled with people that were Catholic, some for over 20+ years?
Only me and one other gentleman were non-Catholic.

They spent the entire time talking to two young ladies that were Catholic, but were not yet confirmed. The other non Catholic gentleman seemed as confused as I was.

Is there any way to learn how to be a Catholic without having to show up for all these classes? I will learn everything I have to, but this was not a pleasant experience.

Please do not be offended, as I am completely new to the church as well as Christianity in general.

Thanks.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

You could try Catholicism for Dummies. You can even download it free of charge. I don’t mean to be condescending, the book really does give a pretty good overview. It doesn’t go into great depth, but you aren’t going to get great depth in RCIA. Even the instructors don’t have the knowledge to go into great depth.

Good luck and God bless.

 

[Avila123]

I am so sorry that you have experienced so much human fallibility in RCIA. Please speak to your priest (or any priest that you know) and let him know your experience so that he can consider the best way to help you and the others in RCIA. Although you say that you haven’t managed to get to your parish church, I would suggest that now is the time to do so.

Maybe there needs to be a separate group for lapsed Catholics and a smaller number of practicing Catholics who are wanting to learn more about the faith.

I will pray for you and the other gentleman.

 

[Casilda]

If you feel a bit adventuresome or want to go more in-depth, here is a free, online Catechism of the Catholic Church:
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

I was stuck in such a class. They gave us looseleaf handouts with a middleschool level Catechism, albeit, the majority were young teens, there were about 20 adults of all ages. It was beyond awkward.

Call and make an appointment to talk to the priest, let him know of your intentions, of learning the faith, he may suggest reading material for you. Our priest leads the adult class, suggests books, etc and also meets with people individually.

 

[dsfgsadfgsdfg]

“I am completely new to the church as well as Christianity in general.”
First things first, Welcome! So glad you are looking into Christianity. And thank you for not giving up when put in an unpleasant circumstance. Sometimes when folks have disappointments at church, they leave the church, but it was man who disappointed you, not Christ.

I don’t know if this will help, but if you can get the phone number to the church you are interested in, give a call to the pastor/priest and just tell him that you would like to join the church. You tried to attend a class but it is difficult for you. Be honest with him and tell him about your experience.

 

[Dorothy]

“I am completely new to the church as well as Christianity in general.”
First things first, Welcome! So glad you are looking into Christianity. And thank you for not giving up when put in an unpleasant circumstance. Sometimes when folks have disappointments at church, they leave the church, but it was man who disappointed you, not Christ.

I don’t know if this will help, but if you can get the phone number to the church you are interested in, give a call to the pastor/priest and just tell him that you would like to join the church. You tried to attend a class but it is difficult for you. Be honest with him and tell him about your experience.

Great advice!

 

[CB_Catholic]

You could try Catholicism for Dummies. You can even download it free of charge. I don’t mean to be condescending, the book really does give a pretty good overview. It doesn’t go into great depth, but you aren’t going to get great depth in RCIA. Even the instructors don’t have the knowledge to go into great depth.

Good luck and God bless.

Please reconsider that last statement. Our instructors are priests and deacons who have degrees that are equal to or surpass yours and have great ability to go into great depth. But RCIA is not and has never been meant to teach the faith in great depth. It is a course in basic Christianity and Catholicism. They aren’t earning degrees in theology here.

 

[nameless1]

Thanks everyone. And I will make a call to describe my problem.

Very helpful.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Please reconsider that last statement. Our instructors are priests and deacons who have degrees that are equal to or surpass yours and have great ability to go into great depth. But RCIA is not and has never been meant to teach the faith in great depth. It is a course in basic Christianity and Catholicism. They aren’t earning degrees in theology here.

I think that’s what I said. I’ve never heard of a priest or deacon teaching RCIA.

I was speaking of RCIA instructors only, not priests and deacons. The priests I know all have a Master’s at minimum, many have more. The deacons I know all have a BA, many an MA. Some priests I know have studied more philosophy or psychology than theology, it depends on the seminary, however. If one happens to have a priest who is a Jesuit, he will have all the education available. All of the RCIA instructors I know have only a certificate.

 

[Angel_Bradford]

Please reconsider that last statement. Our instructors are priests and deacons who have degrees that are equal to or surpass yours and have great ability to go into great depth. But RCIA is not and has never been meant to teach the faith in great depth. It is a course in basic Christianity and Catholicism. They aren’t earning degrees in theology here.

 

[Angel_Bradford]

I think that’s what I said. I’ve never heard of a priest or deacon teaching RCIA.

I was speaking of RCIA instructors only, not priests and deacons. The priests I know all have a Master’s at minimum, many have more. The deacons I know all have a BA, many an MA. Some priests I know have studied more philosophy or psychology than theology, it depends on the seminary, however. If one happens to have a priest who is a Jesuit, he will have all the education available. All of the RCIA instructors I know have only a certificate.

Two of our priests and one of our deacons teach the RCIA in my parish. I also help and I have an MA in Theology.

 

[1ke]

I am a 45 year old male, who, after searching deeply many years decided that the Catholic church is where my heart and spirit was really drawn to.

Three people came to visit me at my apartment. They seemed very kind and helpful.
The next week, they even brought me a beautiful handmade rosary that took my breath away, along with a few prayer books.

They gave me information on how to join the program for people who haven’t been baptized and want to join the church. I told them that I have bad anxiety problems, but don’t have problems learning. The classes started on Sept. 11th and if all goes well I should be able to be baptized after Easter?

I do not have a way to get there to the church, but made it to the first RCIA class.
It was filled with people that were Catholic, some for over 20+ years?
Only me and one other gentleman were non-Catholic.

They spent the entire time talking to two young ladies that were Catholic, but were not yet confirmed. The other non Catholic gentleman seemed as confused as I was.

Is there any way to learn how to be a Catholic without having to show up for all these classes? I will learn everything I have to, but this was not a pleasant experience.

Please do not be offended, as I am completely new to the church as well as Christianity in general.

Thanks.

Make an appointment with the pastor (not anyone else) for a one on one meeting. Tell him what you’ve told us, and ask for his help.

 

[nameless1]

Ok, I have an update on the situation. The Priest? over the RCIA program informed me that the usual teacher of the program had left, and they scrambled to find volunteers to fill in at the last moment.

He said he did not have the time himself to help one-on-one with the program, but would call around to other local parishes and find me the help I need.

I live in Florida, and finding a Catholic Church is not a problem. Unlike NC, where I used to live. Baptist church every block. Only slightly joking.

Anyway, he was quite nice and helpful. I think everything is going to work out.

Pray for me anyway, as I sometimes put the cart before the horse.

The reason I put a question mark behind Priest, is because I’m still working out Priest, Deacon, Pastor etc.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

The pastor is the “head priest” at a church. A priest is anyone who has been ordained a priest, i.e. received the sacrament of Holy Orders. A pastor is a priest, of course, but not all priests, by far, are pastors. Priests cannot marry (or date or engage in romantic entanglements). Priests attend a seminary where they study theology, philosophy, psychology and related subjects. The mix depends on the seminary and the program of study So does the length of time of study. A diocesan priest may study only four years, whereas a Jesuit can study for twelve. Priests-to-be are assigned to a seminary by their bishop. Catholic “areas” are divided into dioceses. A diocese is just a geographical division. Each diocese or archdiocese is overseen by a bishop or an archbishop. A priest at a church is usually a diocesan priest, which means upon graduation he will be assigned to one of the churches in his diocese. However, priests, like nuns, can belong to various orders. In this case, they are not diocesan priests, but Franciscans, Dominicans, Jesuits, etc. The bishop presides over the entire diocese, however the church at which he presides is the “Mother Church” for that diocese.

A deacon is below a priest. A deacon studies theology, pastoral ministry, etc. A deacon can baptize and witness marriages, etc., but there are certain things a deacon cannot do. A deacon cannot consecrate the bread and wine. You will often see a deacon giving the homily and doing various other functions, but an ordained priest will have to consecrate the bread and wine. When there was an abundance of priests, the diaconate fell out of favor, however, now the diaconate has been revived. A married man is permitted to become a deacon as is a single man. However, if a man becomes a deacon while single, he is prohibited from marrying (or dating). Deacons wives are often very active in the parish, like the wives of Protestant ministers.

A monk is a member of a religious order that usually is dedicated to prayer and contemplation. A monk is not a priest, however certain monks become priests.

Within your parish, and you are free to join any parish you wish even if it is not within your geographical boundaries, you will find that many lay parishioners take on special duties, e.g., RCIA instructors, Bible study facilitators, EMHC ministers (Extraordinary Ministers of the Holy Eucharist), music ministers, ushers, etc. There is usually something for everyone to do. You just have to find your niche, and you eventually will. Just give it time. Some churches are more active and social than others.

Don’t be shy about asking questions. Catholics usually love to answer questions.

I’m glad you got the whole RCIA question resolved. I highly doubt that anyone would ignore you or give you less attention than any other person. No doubt they are overjoyed to have you. God bless.

 

[nameless1]

Thank you Lily. Wow, now I know why I need these classes.

You have enormous knowledge. Then I saw your qualifications.

I am sure the classes will cover some of this, but I am writing it in my notebook anyway.

Thank you and I know more now than ever.

I am going to read this website a lot more.

 

[Gorgias]

For the love of all that’s holy, Lily! Puh-leeze!!! :nope:

Priests attend a seminary where they study theology, philosophy, psychology and related subjects. The mix depends on the seminary and the program of study So does the length of time of study. A diocesan priest may study only four years, whereas a Jesuit can study for twelve.

A diocesan priest typically studies for six to eight years: two to four of them include a program of study of philosophy, and four include a program of study of theology.

Jesuits (and others) who study longer are typically spending their time studying other disciplines (although they might include courses of study in various branches of theology). They aren’t “super-priests”, as your statement seems to imply.

A deacon is below a priest.

No. No, NO, NO!

Deacons are ordained, just as priests and bishops are. They are not ‘below’ priests, or ‘less qualified’ than them, or in any way ‘deficient’ compared to them! Their ministry differs, but they aren’t in any way inferior to those who have been ordained priests or bishops!

When there was an abundance of priests, the diaconate fell out of favor, however, now the diaconate has been revived.

The diaconate was not restored because of a decline of the number of priests! It was restored because deacons assume real ministry in the Church and their role is important!

OK… I’m getting off my soapbox now…

 

[Lily_Bernans]

I was assuming the priest already had a college degree when entering the seminary. I shouldn’t assume. Okay, if a priest enters the seminary straight from high school, it can take six to eight years. If he already has a college degree, it can be done in as little as four. Most Jesuits I know are “super-priests” who are highly educated. I know one who was in the seminary for twelve years, studying theology the entire time. I’ve studied theology for six years now, will probably end up studying eight or ten, and I’m a woman, so not a member of the priesthood and never will be.

I don’t mean to belittle the diaconate, it is a wonderful calling, but there are several things a priest can do that a deacon cannot, that is why I used the word “below,” which probably wasn’t the best word choice. A deacon is not a member of the priesthood, he cannot consecrate the bread and the wine. He can give the homily, baptize, teach, etc., but he is not a priest and cannot consecrate the bread and wine. But yes, I agree, a deacon is ordained and has specific duties. They are very valuable members and ministers of the Church. Here is some information about deacons. Some go on to become priests.

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/vocations/diaconate/faqs.cfm

According to my bishop, the diaconate was restored because of the shortage of priests. Back in the 70s and 80s when every church had a pastor and four or more associates, the bishop tells me, the diaconate was no where in sight. Now that some parishes don’t even have a permanent pastor, the diaconate was restored. Previously, there wouldn’t have been much for a deacon to do. The associates did it all. Now, they are desperately needed because priests are quite overworked. I’m not going to argue with my bishop! But I do agree that the diaconate is a wonderful vocation and one that’s needed.

Everyone in the Church can have a job to do if he or she wants it. Bible study, RCIA, catechism for children, music ministry, ushers, etc. I think, though, in the Catholic Church, one has to be more pro-active than in the various Protestant denominations. If you want to do something in the Catholic Church, make your wishes known. Don’t be shy. In my opinion only, Catholics don’t ask as much as Protestants do, and that, I think, is one of their failings. It can make people feel unwanted when they are very much wanted and liked.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Thank you Lily. Wow, now I know why I need these classes.

You have enormous knowledge. Then I saw your qualifications.

I am sure the classes will cover some of this, but I am writing it in my notebook anyway.

Thank you and I know more now than ever.

I am going to read this website a lot more.

There is a lot they don’t teach us in college about theology, too. I was saying on another thread that I didn’t even know missing Mass on a Holy Day of Obligation was a mortal sin! I guess that’s why they call it an “obligation.”

You will learn a lot, but if you have questions, and you trust me, you can always send me a PM and ask me. I’ll be glad to help you with anything I can.

And I promise to word my responses carefully.

 

[Gorgias]

I was assuming the priest already had a college degree when entering the seminary. I shouldn’t assume. Okay, if a priest enters the seminary straight from high school, it can take six to eight years. If he already has a college degree, it can be done in as little as four.

Well, to nit-pick, the criterion isn’t just “straight out of high school”, it’s “if a man enters the seminary without a college degree, it will take eight years.” In the past, if a man had a degree in philosophy, it might have taken somewhat less than six years; however, with the current Program for Priestly Formation, that’s shouldn’t be the case any longer. Nowadays, the norm for a man who enters seminary with a bachelor’s degree is two years of minor seminary followed by four years of major seminary. More to the point, though, seminary formation isn’t only about formal post-secondary education; that’s only one of the four pillars of formation. Therefore, even the most highly educated man might have to spend two years in formation prior to entering major seminary and beginning his four years of formation there.

Most Jesuits I know are “super-priests” who are highly educated.

One who is ‘highly educated’ is not thusly a ‘super-priest’.

According to my bishop, the diaconate was restored because of the shortage of priests. Back in the 70s and 80s when every church had a pastor and four or more associates, the bishop tells me, the diaconate was no where in sight. Now that some parishes don’t even have a permanent pastor, the diaconate was restored.

Perhaps you misunderstood him. The permanent diaconate was restored by Pope Paul VI in 1967, in his motu proprio Sacrum diaconatus ordinem. As you might notice, that date is prior even to the “70s and 80s”, during which you claim there was no ‘need’ for deacons. The diaconate was not restored in order to create a cadre of “Priest Lite” clergy.

Previously, there wouldn’t have been much for a deacon to do. The associates did it all.

Some of the duties of deacons (as outlined in the document I’ve cited) are, in fact, to be performed “in the absence of a priest.” However, as I’ve mentioned, they were defined prior to any ‘priest shortage’ in Europe or America.

Now, they are desperately needed because priests are quite overworked.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc, eh? :nope:

I’m not going to argue with my bishop!

Perhaps he meant that the shortage of priests in his diocese is the reason that he began a program of formation for the permanent diaconate in his diocese; however, that’s not the reason that the Church restored the diaconate in the '60s.

And I promise to word my responses carefully.

LOL…

 

[Usige]

According to my bishop, the diaconate was restored because of the shortage of priests. Back in the 70s and 80s when every church had a pastor and four or more associates, the bishop tells me, the diaconate was no where in sight. Now that some parishes don’t even have a permanent pastor, the diaconate was restored. Previously, there wouldn’t have been much for a deacon to do. The associates did it all. Now, they are desperately needed because priests are quite overworked. I’m not going to argue with my bishop! But I do agree that the diaconate is a wonderful vocation and one that’s needed.

While I don’t like to correct members of the clergy, I also cannot let inaccuracies stand. Talk of restoration of the permanent diaconate has happened since the late 19th century. Many relate a sincere push to priests in Nazi concentration camps. They saw that the clergy had become too seperated from the laity and pondered if deacons in the greater community might have kept the events leading up to world war ii from happening. Even Pius XII spoke favorably about restoring the diaconate in 1957. At that time he said the time was not yet ripe.

The restoration of the diaconate to a permanent and stable order has never been because of a decline in priests. For most of church history priests were relatively rare. It was only the early to mid 20th century that we saw a huge number of priests. Yes, deacons handle things that associate priest might have done in the past, but that is because priests are also ordained with the diaconal character. In other words priests often share the same ministerial functions of deacons because they both have a diaconal character. The difference between a deacon and priest in that ministry is that deacons’ primary ministry is outside the Church walls. Deacons have the ability to bring the Gospel to places that a priest might not be welcomed. As the head of diaconal formation said to us recently, “as deacons you will be able to go places I cannot”. This is precisely what the priests during world war ii were talking about.

It’s important to remember that deacons are not mini-priests or suffer some type of deficiency. They don’t just fill-in when a priest isn’t available. Deacons, priests, and bishops each have a distinct role. No one considers priests to be deficient to a bishop since they can’t confer the sacrament of Holy Orders, so the same logic should not be applied to the diaconate.