RCIA problem

[Lily_Bernans]

Actually, I’m working in his office today, helping him catch up on paperwork.

I didn’t misunderstand him, however, he did clarify that he meant the diaconate was not used much in modern times *prior *to the shortage of priests. I never saw a deacon before I went to Europe to live in the 90s, and there were sure no deacons there (maybe in England, but I’m talking about continental Europe). When I came back, deacons were at almost every parish. But I do agree with you. The duties of deacons were clearly defined long ago. Deacons can be traced back to the early Church, then they were not seen much, now they are again. I like the diaconate, but people should never confuse them with a priest.

Actually, there are very few deacons in the diocese where I live because there is an abundance of priests (I don’t know why; it’s no different from any other diocese in any other respect).

All just say that all the Jesuits I have known have been “super-priests” who were highly educated in theology.

Here is a thread about how long it takes to become a priest:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=157446

Our back-and-forth is going to mix poor nameless1 up more than before! And he’s trying to so hard!

 

[Lily_Bernans]

While I don’t like to correct members of the clergy, I also cannot let inaccuracies stand. Talk of restoration of the permanent diaconate has happened since the late 19th century. Many relate a sincere push to priests in Nazi concentration camps. They saw that the clergy had become too seperated from the laity and pondered if deacons in the greater community might have kept the events leading up to world war ii from happening. Even Pius XII spoke favorably about restoring the diaconate in 1957. At that time he said the time was not yet ripe.

The restoration of the diaconate to a permanent and stable order has never been because of a decline in priests. For most of church history priests were relatively rare. It was only the early to mid 20th century that we saw a huge number of priests. Yes, deacons handle things that associate priest might have done in the past, but that is because priests are also ordained with the diaconal character. In other words priests often share the same ministerial functions of deacons because they both have a diaconal character. The difference between a deacon and priest in that ministry is that deacons’ primary ministry is outside the Church walls. Deacons have the ability to bring the Gospel to places that a priest might not be welcomed. As the head of diaconal formation said to us recently, “as deacons you will be able to go places I cannot”. This is precisely what the priests during world war ii were talking about.

It’s important to remember that deacons are not mini-priests or suffer some type of deficiency. They don’t just fill-in when a priest isn’t available. Deacons, priests, and bishops each have a distinct role. No one considers priests to be deficient to a bishop since they can’t confer the sacrament of Holy Orders, so the same logic should not be applied to the diaconate.

That’s what I said. A deacon isn’t a fill-in for a priest. There are things a priest can do that a deacon cannot do, like consecrate bread and wine. And there are things a bishop does that a priest ordinarily does not do, like confirm or confer Holy Orders. All have their distinct jobs.

Still, with Christ as our High Priest and our bishops the successors of the apostles, I do still think of deacons as “one rung” below a priest since a priest has the opportunity to become a bishop and a deacon, to my knowledge, does not, unless he becomes a priest. In NO WAY do I mean to diminish the diaconate. It’s a wonderful vocation and a much needed one. Most deacons, however, have families so cannot devote their lives to the Church they way a priest can. And that does not diminish a deacon, either. His role is a different one from a priest. Deacons have my total respect, for their vocation, their education, their job. My thinking that way is probably a problem of mine that I have to correct. Perhaps it came about because I never laid eyes on a deacon until a few years ago. But I can assure you, I do not think deacons are deficient in any way. I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head when you said a deacon’s job is primarily outside the Church walls, whereas a priest’s in inside.

I am really not used to the diaconate at all. I do not, however, find them deficient in any way or see them as mini-priests. Like I said, I am quite unfamiliar with them, and therein stems my problem. I don’t want to insult anyone! My unfamiliarity with deacons is my problem, not the deacons! I grew up with nuns (literally, I lived in a cloister) and I was educated by nuns and priests. The concept of a deacon was pretty foreign to me until about two years ago.

 

[Catholic_farmer]

I’ve only been Catholic for a year and half, but I have been studying hard and now teach catechism. I do my best, but I also know when I’m in too deep. Thankfully, I am from a big enough parish that I can always get the answer to a question. At our parish, the kids in RCIA are taught separately from adults. That is important because adults usually have different questions and typically need to hear the Church’s messages of love and mercy more than the kids.

I’m sorry your start was so awkward. I hope I can help you find a parish that can meet your needs better. I live in North Florida, but I know folks in Central and South Florida that can recommend a good parish. If you want, you can PM me what city you’re in and I can ask around for a parish recommendation. You do not have to go to the closest parish.

God bless and welcome!

 

[Gorgias]

I didn’t misunderstand him, however, he did clarify that he meant the diaconate was not used much in modern times *prior *to the shortage of priests.

Oh… so, ya’ll are extrapolating from personal experience, then? That’s not always helpful…

I never saw a deacon before I went to Europe to live in the 90s

I’ll call your anecdote, and raise you mine: in my diocese, our first class of permanent deacons was ordained in 1974. They’ve been around – and highly visible – from then up through the present day; we have over 100 deacons (almost half the number of active priests in the diocese). Although we’re now experiencing a decrease in the number of active priests (the result of large numbers of priests retiring (with few being ordained)), in the 70’s we still had a large number of multi-priest parishes. So, while I appreciate you telling your story of what life in your diocese is like, please realize that your experience isn’t representative for the Church universal or even the Church in the United States!

Our back-and-forth is going to mix poor nameless1 up more than before! And he’s trying to so hard!

Better ‘mixed up’ than ‘walking away with inaccurate information’! :sad_yes:

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

I think that’s what I said. I’ve never heard of a priest or deacon teaching RCIA.

Our Parish Deacon helps Teach RCIA at our parish. We have a 5 person team, including Deacon. Though he says that he is really not in charge of RCIA, he basically is with a elderly lady as his second in command, so to speak. I am one of the 4 laypeople on the team. Even his wife has said “You say that you are not in charge every year. Accept the fact that you basically are” LOL

 

[Horton]

You could try Catholicism for Dummies

. You can even download it free of charge. I don’t mean to be condescending, the book really does give a pretty good overview. It doesn’t go into great depth, but you aren’t going to get great depth in RCIA. Even the instructors don’t have the knowledge to go into great depth.

Good luck and God bless.

I’m glad then I went through RCIA in the parish I did. The instructors did go into great depth and were quite knowledgeable
Lily Bernans;13303208:

I think that’s what I said. I’ve never heard of a priest or deacon teaching RCIA.

I was speaking of RCIA instructors only, not priests and deacons. The priests I know all have a Master’s at minimum, many have more. The deacons I know all have a BA, many an MA. Some priests I know have studied more philosophy or psychology than theology, it depends on the seminary, however. If one happens to have a priest who is a Jesuit, he will have all the education available. All of the RCIA instructors I know have only a certificate.

When I went through RCIA the director of RCIA was a permanent Deacon. In addition to that, I believe he had a PhD in an engineering field. In my current parish RCIA is led by the laity and the instructors are chosen for their particular knowledge of the subject matter.

To the OP - RCIA differs from parish to parish. I’m sorry you did not get off to a great start but keep with it. While one on one instruction is great you may miss out on the sense of community one gets when experiencing the program for several months.

Welcome home and God bless!

 

[DCNBILL]

I think that’s what I said. I’ve never heard of a priest or deacon teaching RCIA.

I was speaking of RCIA instructors only, not priests and deacons. The priests I know all have a Master’s at minimum, many have more. The deacons I know all have a BA, many an MA. Some priests I know have studied more philosophy or psychology than theology, it depends on the seminary, however. If one happens to have a priest who is a Jesuit, he will have all the education available. All of the RCIA instructors I know have only a certificate.

The deacons and priests do the primary instructions in our RCIA classes. The coordinator is a Sister with a Doctorate in Systematic Theology.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

I’m glad to read so many deacons are teaching RCIA. They are well qualified to do so. Good for them!

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Oh… so, ya’ll are extrapolating from personal experience, then? That’s not always helpful…

I’ll call your anecdote, and raise you mine: in my diocese, our first class of permanent deacons was ordained in 1974. They’ve been around – and highly visible – from then up through the present day; we have over 100 deacons (almost half the number of active priests in the diocese). Although we’re now experiencing a decrease in the number of active priests (the result of large numbers of priests retiring (with few being ordained)), in the 70’s we still had a large number of multi-priest parishes. So, while I appreciate you telling your story of what life in your diocese is like, please realize that your experience isn’t representative for the Church universal or even the Church in the United States!

Better ‘mixed up’ than ‘walking away with inaccurate information’! :sad_yes:

Well, I was just being born in the late-70s, so I can’t speak from experience. Only from what the bishop tells me, and he was a priest in the 70s.

 

[Lorelael]

I’m currently in the RCIA classes at our church. I like to supplement my studies with some books from USCCB (United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.) Here is a link to the home study courses. They are wonderful reading, and typically have a test at the end as well. I’ve done 3 different ones so far.

amm.org/chss/chss.asp

 

[Lily_Bernans]

I’m currently in the RCIA classes at our church. I like to supplement my studies with some books from USCCB (United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.) Here is a link to the home study courses. They are wonderful reading, and typically have a test at the end as well. I’ve done 3 different ones so far.

amm.org/chss/chss.asp

Those look REALLY good for RCIA. Thank you for posting the link and sharing!

Good luck with your studies and God bless!

 

[nameless1]

I want to thank Lily for all her help.

Now I want to tell everyone who has posted, that this is an amazing forum, where you can be anywhere, and be helped. Ya’ll are amazing people, and I love you in a spiritual way.

I posted about the problems that I encountered with my poor sweet and kind sponsor, that I guess got understood wrong, and my girlfriend, the one who was supposed to be the one who introduced the Catholic people to me, was more than likely the problem. She is a cradle Catholic that does not deserve the kindness they give her. I’m sorry, but it’s the truth.

I made a very long post about it. For some reason it got deleted. Probably for the better.

I do NOT get my points across well over this new digital world. Do not get me wrong. I am a repentant soul, but get misunderstood often.

I can not re post what I said. I am not some one that is scared of you, or crowds in a child like way. Trying to explain this over the internet is impossible.

I said I suffer from anxiety. This gets misunderstood. I get misunderstood.

I am different than I used to be. That is all that needs to be said, because explaining does not help.

Once I can find out the problem that has actually happened, I have decided my toxic
girlfriend has finished our relationship, whether I become a Catholic or not.

I am too angry to finish this in a proper way.

I will get back to you kind people when I have spoken to the parish priest, which I am to understand will be soon, and I will clear up any problems that I am sure my EX girlfriend caused.

If nothing else, this has changed my life for the better. Thanks for your patience, and I hope to have some new friends in the future.

Sorry for the anger that I hope will pass.

Again, at least this is a great forum, with great people, and I hope I can get over this.

God bless all of you, and I will post if the situation gets corrected.

 

[jimsnew]

I think that’s what I said. I’ve never heard of a priest or deacon teaching RCIA.

I was speaking of RCIA instructors only, not priests and deacons. The priests I know all have a Master’s at minimum, many have more. The deacons I know all have a BA, many an MA. Some priests I know have studied more philosophy or psychology than theology, it depends on the seminary, however. If one happens to have a priest who is a Jesuit, he will have all the education available. All of the RCIA instructors I know have only a certificate.

I am in RCIA classes now, and some of the class is taught by a priest. Apparently it varies somewhat. There are some longtime Catholics in the class, but most are there as support for a family member, future son in law, daughter in law etc.

 

[ServusHumilis]

Hopefully they are already using it but if not you can read the Baltimore Catechism here. Welcome home!

 

[Lily_Bernans]

I am in RCIA classes now, and some of the class is taught by a priest. Apparently it varies somewhat. There are some longtime Catholics in the class, but most are there as support for a family member, future son in law, daughter in law etc.

I’m really encouraged to hear that in so many parishes priests and deacons are teaching RCIA!

 

[Lily_Bernans]

I want to thank Lily for all her help.

Now I want to tell everyone who has posted, that this is an amazing forum, where you can be anywhere, and be helped. Ya’ll are amazing people, and I love you in a spiritual way.

I posted about the problems that I encountered with my poor sweet and kind sponsor, that I guess got understood wrong, and my girlfriend, the one who was supposed to be the one who introduced the Catholic people to me, was more than likely the problem. She is a cradle Catholic that does not deserve the kindness they give her. I’m sorry, but it’s the truth.

I made a very long post about it. For some reason it got deleted. Probably for the better.

I do NOT get my points across well over this new digital world. Do not get me wrong. I am a repentant soul, but get misunderstood often.

I can not re post what I said. I am not some one that is scared of you, or crowds in a child like way. Trying to explain this over the internet is impossible.

I said I suffer from anxiety. This gets misunderstood. I get misunderstood.

I am different than I used to be. That is all that needs to be said, because explaining does not help.

Once I can find out the problem that has actually happened, I have decided my toxic
girlfriend has finished our relationship, whether I become a Catholic or not.

I am too angry to finish this in a proper way.

I will get back to you kind people when I have spoken to the parish priest, which I am to understand will be soon, and I will clear up any problems that I am sure my EX girlfriend caused.

If nothing else, this has changed my life for the better. Thanks for your patience, and I hope to have some new friends in the future.

Sorry for the anger that I hope will pass.

Again, at least this is a great forum, with great people, and I hope I can get over this.

God bless all of you, and I will post if the situation gets corrected.

You’re welcome. I will be praying that all is resolved for you very soon. I’m sorry you have to endure this.

I do not mean to minimize your problem one bit, but many of us have trouble getting our point across on the Internet at times. I really do. I’ve said some really dumb things at times and I teach theology, to adults! I really am better in the classroom than on a discussion board.

I will miss your posts and hope you return soon. In the meantime, I will be praying for you.

God bless.