RCIA question...the "experience" thing

[Scottgun]

I was disappointed with RCIA. The guy I sponsored was too. One of our beefs was with the rites (welcoming, acceptance, etc.) BIG DISCLAIMER: I have no complaint with the rites in and of themselves! It is the lack of explanation about it beforehand that bugs us.

The RCIA directors were not forthcoming about what the rite was or what was going to happen. The argument being that an explanation would ruin the experience. So the day of the rite rolls around and a bunch of baffled candidates and catechumens walk into the church and walk out just as baffled. Then we are asked silly questions about our experience. All one needed to say was that in the rite the sponsors would say something about us and that there would be prayers and blessings said.

I’m not the only one. I have heard several people on this forum complain about this. When a friend of mine from the East Coast said his friend had the same problem, I realized this is something on a national level.

My question: Where is this coming from? I’ve looked through the RCIA documents and don’t see anything about turning the rites into a purely experiencial thing, and certainly nothing about being aloof or coy when someone asks what it is and what is going to happen.

So it is coming from somewhere and I would like to find its source or sources and work to crush this unseemly exercise in esotericism like a bug.

Thanks and God bless.

 

[lotusblossom]

Scottgun - I am wondering the same thing. I, too, am a sponsor and we were not really explained much and ALL of us were confused as to what to do and why we were doing it. I am wondering if people who have had great RCIA experiences had thorough explinations of these rituals. They seemed to be way downplayed in our RCIA program.

 

[Scottgun]

Scottgun - I am wondering the same thing. I, too, am a sponsor and we were not really explained much and ALL of us were confused as to what to do and why we were doing it. I am wondering if people who have had great RCIA experiences had thorough explinations of these rituals. They seemed to be way downplayed in our RCIA program.

I should point out that I don’t think they necessarily need a thorough explanation. But they should have a general idea, especially when they ask for it. Most importantly of all, the director should not play dumb or be like, “you’ll see.” when asked about it. Mormons are esoteric, Catholics are exoteric. Straight answers to straight questions.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I was disappointed with RCIA. The guy I sponsored was too. One of our beefs was with the rites (welcoming, acceptance, etc.) BIG DISCLAIMER: I have no complaint with the rites in and of themselves! It is the lack of explanation about it beforehand that bugs us.

The RCIA directors were not forthcoming about what the rite was or what was going to happen. The argument being that an explanation would ruin the experience. So the day of the rite rolls around and a bunch of baffled candidates and catechumens walk into the church and walk out just as baffled. Then we are asked silly questions about our experience. All one needed to say was that in the rite the sponsors would say something about us and that there would be prayers and blessings said.

I’m not the only one. I have heard several people on this forum complain about this. When a friend of mine from the East Coast said his friend had the same problem, I realized this is something on a national level.

My question: Where is this coming from? I’ve looked through the RCIA documents and don’t see anything about turning the rites into a purely experiencial thing, and certainly nothing about being aloof or coy when someone asks what it is and what is going to happen.

So it is coming from somewhere and I would like to find its source or sources and work to crush this unseemly exercise in esotericism like a bug.

Thanks and God bless.

I always had 4 or 5 Rite books available for RCIA (Catechumens, Candidates or Sponsors) from the parish library to be checked out and returned in a week. They were always free to read the rituals for the various Rites. I never went into detail or had any rehearsal for the Rites.

 

[Scottgun]

I always had 4 or 5 Rite books available for RCIA (Catechumens, Candidates or Sponsors) from the parish library to be checked out and returned in a week. They were always free to read the rituals for the various Rites. I never went into detail or had any rehearsal for the Rites.

I assume that if you had some ask you about it, you would refer them to the rite books, or give them a brief lo-down and that you wouldn’t deliberately blow it off or evade the question. That is what I experienced, the guy I sponsored experienced, a friend from the East experienced and several people on this forum have complained about it. It’s like a prelude to an Amway pitch. Somewhere I think there is a guidebook or something like that that is encouraging directors that preserving the experience is so important that they should deflect attempts to find out about it.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I assume that if you had some ask you about it, you would refer them to the rite books, or give them a brief lo-down and that you wouldn’t deliberately blow it off or evade the question. That is what I experienced, the guy I sponsored experienced, a friend from the East experienced and several people on this forum have complained about it. It’s like a prelude to an Amway pitch. Somewhere I think there is a guidebook or something like that that is encouraging directors that preserving the experience is so important that they should deflect attempts to find out about it.

Some RCIA materials speak of the “experience” but none I have seen say to make it a secret.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

It sounds to me like this is just a poorly executed attempt to revive the ancient separation of pro-catechesis and mystagogy in which the candidates would first learn the Christian faith through the bishop’s explanation of the Scriptures and then, AFTER having been initiated they would have the rites explained to them. The reasoning for this, however, was not primarily that knowing what was happening would detract from the experience but that these things were holy and thus could only be discussed with the holy (those born again in Christ).

The idea was that you don’t throw pearls before swine, and this was consistently carried out in all liturgical practice. Certain rites, such as the liturgy of the Eucharist, were for Christian eyes and ears only. Our current revival of RCIA, whatever its merits may be, is in this sense poorly executed because it has sought to return this norm to the catechumenate - having to leave Mass before the consecration and, apparently, only explaining rites after they have been experienced - but allows everyone else to see, hear, and know these things. An atheist or even a satanist gets to witness more of the Mass than a catechumen, and even the catechumen has probably seen his fair share of Masses (Eucharist included) before formally starting the process. That aspect is just silly.

 

[St_John]

Andreas,
You make a good point. Probably in those ancient days, the Mass was not a public event open to Joe Schmoe down the street. Probably you couldn’t attend unless you were accepted into the community. Therefore, the mystery of the Eucharist was a more secretive affair. You’re right, it just doesn’t make sense to try to simulate that in this day and age. I’ve always thought that whole thing was awkward.

 

[kage_ar]

When I read these things, I figure I must’ve gone through RCIA on Pluto We did not have a dress rehearsal before any of the Rites, but, there was an overview presented of each. My sponsor was an old hand at sponsorship (I was her 3rd or 4th), so, she was familiar with the Rites. I never recall any secret we-can’t-tell-you-about-it response.

 

[JoyfulOne]

The Rite of Welcome in our church is this Sunday; tonight was RCIA. I am happy to report that we had a “dress rehearsal” and that everything that will happen was explained.

We have one catechumen–he was instructed apart from everyone else, The other candidates were walked through what would happen next.

(My husband and I are waiting to hear from the Tribunal, so we will go through the Rite privately with the class when we get word.)

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

The Rite of Welcome in our church is this Sunday; tonight was RCIA. I am happy to report that we had a “dress rehearsal” and that everything that will happen was explained.

We have one catechumen–he was instructed apart from everyone else, The other candidates were walked through what would happen next.

(My husband and I are waiting to hear from the Tribunal, so we will go through the Rite privately with the class when we get word.)

I don’t quite understand the last line?

The Rite of Welcome is a public Rite with the parish community, it should not be celebrated in any private way.

If this is the Rite of Welcome the Catechumen, if they are already a Catechumen, they have already gone through the Rite of Acceptance, which is for un-Baptized Inquirers who want to become Catechumens. They would not have anything to do with the Rite of Welcome, which is only for Baptized Inquirers who wish to become Candidates.

 

[Damascus]

I have to say this, to this very day I never have heard of anyone at my parish getting any heads up on any aspect of RCIA anything.
It was time to eat doughnuts say a prayer listen to happy talk, learn zippo about anything, get to know all the people there and most were there because one was getting married in the Church.
If I dared to ask any questions about the Catholic faith, it was as if I came from the moon. No one asked any questions and watched the clock. Our instruction was basically that all religions are great! Religion is a good thing!
I am so glad I will still have religion in becoming a Catholic!
Lets get chocolate doughnuts next week!
The woman leading it interrupted the Priests when they popped in anytime they wanted to teach anything. She did not like instruction!
So I just sorta smiled and counted the time down doughnut after doughnut and tried to get some instruction on the side by the Priest that had his head on straight and was not a relativism pusher. No one told us what to expect on the big day, what would happen, how long it would be, only where it would be and what time. That was it.
Now its run by a Priest who is a bit liberal with his theology and makes statements that are totally contrary to any Catholic teaching.
he also laughs at me when I confess sins saying: you dont “buy into that do you”?
I dont know how much longer that parish is going to be able to get away with this.
So that was my “experience” be happy you are not in my old shoes.
It could be worse.

 

[Prague]

I am a teacher in RCIA. We always go through the ceremony with those that will be going through the Rite.
We have all kinds of “dry runs” you might say. We practice receiving the Eucharist, and the blood.
We even do a sacrament of Reconciliation where one of the male teachers is the priest and another is going to confession.
I was the one going to confession and you could hear a pin drop while we were doing this. Everyone appreciated the experience.
It really makes me sad to read of the not so great experiences those in RCIA have had, and are now having.
I have discussed some of the things I have read in these forums with the other teachers.
God Bless You
Prague

 

[JoyfulOne]

Hi, Bro. Rich

Let me try this again, as I botched it the first time round.

The Rite of Acceptance is for the one catachumen (who is technically a precatchumen right now, I guess). The candidates will have the Rite of Welcome. But both will take place at the same Service.

As for the “publicness” of a separate Rite of Welcome–we cannot in good conscience move from inquirers until the Tribunal’s decision comes through, and this is how the priest said we would handle it. Works for me. It is either that or wait till next year.:crying:

But that was not the point of the post–the point was that nothing was left as a surprise, and everything was explained and walked through. Some folks were complaining that it wasn’t being done, and I just wanted to spread some happy news that some parishes don’t leave it to “experience.”

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Hi, Bro. Rich

Let me try this again, as I botched it the first time round.

The Rite of Acceptance is for the one catachumen (who is technically a precatchumen right now, I guess). The candidates will have the Rite of Welcome. But both will take place at the same Service.

As for the “publicness” of a separate Rite of Welcome–we cannot in good conscience move from inquirers until the Tribunal’s decision comes through, and this is how the priest said we would handle it. Works for me. It is either that or wait till next year.:crying:

But that was not the point of the post–the point was that nothing was left as a surprise, and everything was explained and walked through. Some folks were complaining that it wasn’t being done, and I just wanted to spread some happy news that some parishes don’t leave it to “experience.”

Please don’t be offended. I just feel it is sooo important to get terms correct for everyones benefit.

Everyone is an Inquirer until the Rite of Acceptance or Welcome.

I agree that you could/should wait until the decision is final. But at that time you should celebrate the Rite of Welcome at a Sunday Mass, even if it just for the two of you. The Rite of Acceptance and Welcome can be celebrated several times a year in a parish since RCIA is supposed to be a year round process.

It is also important for the RCIA team to be available either right after a Rite or say the Sacrament of Reconciliation if it’s at an evening parish Reconciliation service for any one who wants to talk or ask a question. At least some additional time should be set aside during the next RCIA session allowing people to express their feelings and experience.

 

[JoyfulOne]

Please don’t be offended. I just feel it is sooo important to get terms correct for everyones benefit.

Oh, I’m not offended --I’m embarrassed for making a dopey mistake. (I don’t offend easily.)

And there *is *the possibility that I misunderstood about doing the Rite of Welcome apart from a Sunday Mass. (Personally, I would prefer the 5:30 Saturday Mass, as that is the one we like best and will probably go to most often.)

But I am so sorry for those who are having bad RCIA experiences. Ours is nothing like that. We have wonderful discussion about the Church and doctrine, and no one is made to feel badly if they ask questions–in fact, it is encouraged.

And I am about to need a new expansion file for all the Catholic Updates that get handed out on the nights’ topics. I like those a lot.

 

[puzzleannie]

I got the same complaint from some of the parents and sponsors, that they did not get enough preparation on what they were supposed to do and say. These of course were the parents and sponsors who missed the two meeting set up for them to explain the rites, and the parents who have not been attending the class with their children when they are required. The other participants were fine with it, and the kids knew exactly what to do, why it was done, and were able to explain it to the parents and sponsors. I also got some hurt feelings from the two adults who turned up late for Mass and missed the whole thing and don’t understand why Father did not interrupt the rest of the Mass and take care of them immediately.

what we do, on advice from a more experienced RCIA director, is get together right after the rite (after Mass, that is) and talk about the experience, do a teaching on what just happened any why, reflect, ask for feedback. We do it again at the next week’s class, when candidates have had a chance to reflect on it some more.

 

[scylla]

So that was my “experience” be happy you are not in my old shoes.
It could be worse.

Yes you could be in my parish.

I had to sit through RCIA with the Nun complaining why she couldn’t be a Priest and espousing all sorts of nonsense that “women are oppressed” in the Catholic Church.
I raised up the point that she was the parish coordinator and therefore in charge of this particular church. And she just kept complaining, it was horrible and the girl I was sponsoring never came back.
Hmm I wonder why she didn’t come back?

One man mentioned how a Eucharistic miracle has brought him to investigate the Catholic Church and they brushed him off as it wasn’t a miracle but a trick or something else.

Be glad that Catholicism still exists in other parishes, that is why I am will get more involved as truth does matter, no matter how many people deny it.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[Elzee]

My parish does this to almost the same extent - the sponsors are told what’s going to happen during the Rite of Welcome, and rehearse with the priest, but the candidates and catechumens are told nothing except what they are to say (their name, and respond 'Faith" when asked what they are asking from the Church (I think that’s the question).

My problem is this: The catechumens are answering a question by saying “Faith” without any explanation on what that question really means and why they are responding with the answer of “Faith”. In essence, they are being told to publicly answer a question that has never been explained to them. And, at least in our parish, it is NEVER explained unless someone asks - which I have never heard anyone do - but I have heard them talking among themselves wondering what ‘all that meant’, but they are too shy or embarassed to ask.

 

[Scottgun]

So that was my “experience” be happy you are not in my old shoes.
It could be worse.

Actually I had much of the same experience unfortunately. It is the tip of the iceberg as it were. BUT because I am encountering this particular thing from people from all walks and places, I thought I could nail it down where it was coming from and adress it. Eating the elephant one bite at a time in a manner of speaking.