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Pakesh
Guest
True, but what if different people do different things, all saying that “this is what Jesus did.” How do you reconcile that?
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Pythons
Guest
The Sabbath can be best understood by a direct appeal to Scripture. God created man to exist within God’s specific creation of Eden - an area that had the best of the best. Eden was a location on earth in which man could totally enjoy what God had done for him. Our 1st parents “lived in God’s rest” ( i.e. they didn’t do anything ).
Sin comes into the world and the 1st thing God does is thow Adam and Eve out of “His Rest” therefore we read how the ground has become cursed and from now on it will produce thorns, etc and that Adam will eat by the sweat of his brow ( work contrasted with rest ).
As far as a law of Judaism it is true that the Jews were commanded to observe the Sabbath as well as “all” the other commandments.
Read Deut 5 ( the whole Chapter ), it is a more detailed account of what happened when the commandments were 1st given. God starts to give commandments and makes it to 10 then the people freak out so God tells Moses to order the people back into their tents so that God can complete giving the commandments to Moses who will then teach them to the people.
Deut 5:
In the New Testament we are instructed that moral laws are pertetual therefore any laws that are in force at all times ( like not stealing, telling lies, etc ) naturally remain because they are part of Natural or Moral law. Man is not commanded to observe a Sabbath on Saturday like man ( specicially a savage or anyone not instructed in religion ) is commanded to honor their parents.
The Church determined that Sunday would be the day Christians would worship Christ as God. When I say Church it’s understood that the Apostles determined such under the direction of the Holy Spirit exactly like they determined what they did in Acts 15 ( binding and loosing power ). Hope that helps.
Sin comes into the world and the 1st thing God does is thow Adam and Eve out of “His Rest” therefore we read how the ground has become cursed and from now on it will produce thorns, etc and that Adam will eat by the sweat of his brow ( work contrasted with rest ).
As far as a law of Judaism it is true that the Jews were commanded to observe the Sabbath as well as “all” the other commandments.
Read Deut 5 ( the whole Chapter ), it is a more detailed account of what happened when the commandments were 1st given. God starts to give commandments and makes it to 10 then the people freak out so God tells Moses to order the people back into their tents so that God can complete giving the commandments to Moses who will then teach them to the people.
Deut 5:
No one previous to Moses would have even known what the Sabbath was in the same way no one prior to Moses would have known what Ligurgy was or what was needed to sacrifice for what sin. The law was ONE unit.
In the New Testament we are instructed that moral laws are pertetual therefore any laws that are in force at all times ( like not stealing, telling lies, etc ) naturally remain because they are part of Natural or Moral law. Man is not commanded to observe a Sabbath on Saturday like man ( specicially a savage or anyone not instructed in religion ) is commanded to honor their parents.
The Church determined that Sunday would be the day Christians would worship Christ as God. When I say Church it’s understood that the Apostles determined such under the direction of the Holy Spirit exactly like they determined what they did in Acts 15 ( binding and loosing power ). Hope that helps.
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steve_b
Guest
re: the Sabbath
Mk 14: 27Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
Re: Sunday 1st day of the week
Jesus rose from the dead. The most important day for man. Why do we worship on Sunday?
Heb 10:
23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful; 24 and let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see** the Day** drawing near. 26 For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27* but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. 28* A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29* How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace.
What is the sacrifice for sins, and the blood of the covenant in context with? The Eucharist, (Mt 26:26… Mk 14:22… Lk 22:15…) Jesus instituted the Eucharist the night before He died. He rose for our salvation on the 1st Day of the week…Sunday. This is the Day we meet, because that’s the Day the apostles met to celebrate the sacrifice. And as you can see from Hebrews, we are commanded to meet on Sunday. That’s the Day spoken of in Hebrews. And notice that if we DON’T meet as is the habit of some, look at the consequences. That’s why missing mass deliberately is a mortal sin.
Just a few thoughts
She is
- the woman predicted to come, Gen 3:15
- AND her Son, at complete emnity with Satan and Satan with her AND her Son
- the one who introduces the savior to the world
- the 1st to givie her consent to receive Jesus. And was pregnant with Him for 9 months
- the one who nourished Jesus
- The 1st Christian and the only perfect Christian
- the mother of God.
- the only one who gave Jesus His human body and human nature. That body would be crucified for us.
- always Jesus mother.
- to be honored, as God has honored her. And I would suggest we can’t even begin to honor her like God honors her.
Do you ask others to pray for you? I’m sure you do. You might have someone in a prayer chain praying for you that you don’t even know. Why then would you even hesitate asking the mother of God to pray for you? Recite the Hail Mary. That’s exactly what you ask of her. It’s just a more formal way to do it, by recognizing who she is.
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Pakesh
Guest
Jesus honored his Mother, and He gave Her to us to be our Mother. Our prayers and asking her to pray for us honors her.
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Cristian_B
Guest
I don’t see the even at the cross the same way you do. This to me doesn’t mean that she is my mom, but that proves Jesus’ love. If He, being on the cross, could take care of His mother, how much will He take care of me now that He has all the power in heaven, earth and below and that He said that I’m His family (mom, brother, sister)? Since He did that on the cross, I believe He can do even more to me now that He received all power and glory. This shows His love for His family, not that she is our mother.
T
Topaz1128
Guest
I can totally relate to you about the Marian dogmas. I am now in RCIA, and it is something that I’ve finally overcome. Remember, you don’t HAVE to pray to Mary and the saints.
What helped me was to learn that the Hail Mary prayer is based on Scripture. Coming from an evangelical background, this was comforting to me.
I would like to recommend the book Hail, Holy Queen by Scott Hahn. His writing style is so warm and refreshing – he reminds me of a Catholic Max Lucado! Anyway, this book helped me a lot to see Mary as my spiritual Mother (and not a “goddess”).
I also asked God to help me accept ALL of the Catholic dogmas 100% or else lead me away from the Catholic Church forever. It was a bold prayer, but I was desperate and so hungry for the truth. Needless to say, He has helped me accept everything and I’m still in RCIA! So pray, pray, pray.
What helped me was to learn that the Hail Mary prayer is based on Scripture. Coming from an evangelical background, this was comforting to me.
I would like to recommend the book Hail, Holy Queen by Scott Hahn. His writing style is so warm and refreshing – he reminds me of a Catholic Max Lucado! Anyway, this book helped me a lot to see Mary as my spiritual Mother (and not a “goddess”).
I also asked God to help me accept ALL of the Catholic dogmas 100% or else lead me away from the Catholic Church forever. It was a bold prayer, but I was desperate and so hungry for the truth. Needless to say, He has helped me accept everything and I’m still in RCIA! So pray, pray, pray.
M
Michael_Francis
Guest
***This thread has been pruned to get it back on topic.
Other posts may be split off to a thread of their own.
Other posts may be split off to a thread of their own.
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Debra_C
Guest
praying to Mary and the Saints is not so difficult… especially the Hail Mary.
Let me explain–
The first half is quote straight from scripture. In the open two chapters of Luke, the story of Gabriel’s appearance to Mary to announce she has been chosen to bear the Christ child is told. He greets her with “Hail Mary, full of grace! The Lord is with you.” Understand, this is a particular translation (the Douay-Rheims if I am not mistaken) and other English translations do not express it in precisely the same words. It came from the Latin Vulgate translation which was “Ave Maria, gratia plena. Dominus tecum.” The second part is “Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.” These are the words of Elizabeth when she was filled with the Holy Spirit (who is God and cannot lie) at the sound of Mary’s greeting. The other half is simply an appeal for her intercession.
Even Protestant Christians see no problem with asking their friends and family for prayers when something in their own lives or a loved one’s life is amiss, or if they are seeking guidance. When we pray for others, we call this intercessory prayer. Now we believe that the Saints that have gone before us now stand at the foot of the throne of God Himself in heaven. How much better is it to have these friends praying for us, too? We are not asking Mary directly for the miracle… we are asking for her to intercede for us with God.
As for the Sabbath… it’s a little less direct, but if you read the Acts of the Apostles and the letters of Paul you will see it unfold. Initially, the early Church was comprised of Jews who believed Jesus was both Messiah and Son of God. They kept the Sabbath according to Jewish custom. then on Sunday, the day of the Lord’s resurrection, they celebrated the Eucharistic meal (the breaking of bread). These were the first Masses. This is why we now celebrate on Sunday, also known as the Lord’s day. As more and more gentiles converted, there was some consideration and debate over whether they must become Jews as well as believe in and celebrate Christ. It was eventually concluded by Peter that this was not necessary. Now these Gentiles were not bound by Jewish law, and so had no need to keep both traditions. And so the Sunday Eucharistic celebration came to replace the Jewish Sabbath tradition.
Let me explain–
The first half is quote straight from scripture. In the open two chapters of Luke, the story of Gabriel’s appearance to Mary to announce she has been chosen to bear the Christ child is told. He greets her with “Hail Mary, full of grace! The Lord is with you.” Understand, this is a particular translation (the Douay-Rheims if I am not mistaken) and other English translations do not express it in precisely the same words. It came from the Latin Vulgate translation which was “Ave Maria, gratia plena. Dominus tecum.” The second part is “Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.” These are the words of Elizabeth when she was filled with the Holy Spirit (who is God and cannot lie) at the sound of Mary’s greeting. The other half is simply an appeal for her intercession.
Even Protestant Christians see no problem with asking their friends and family for prayers when something in their own lives or a loved one’s life is amiss, or if they are seeking guidance. When we pray for others, we call this intercessory prayer. Now we believe that the Saints that have gone before us now stand at the foot of the throne of God Himself in heaven. How much better is it to have these friends praying for us, too? We are not asking Mary directly for the miracle… we are asking for her to intercede for us with God.
As for the Sabbath… it’s a little less direct, but if you read the Acts of the Apostles and the letters of Paul you will see it unfold. Initially, the early Church was comprised of Jews who believed Jesus was both Messiah and Son of God. They kept the Sabbath according to Jewish custom. then on Sunday, the day of the Lord’s resurrection, they celebrated the Eucharistic meal (the breaking of bread). These were the first Masses. This is why we now celebrate on Sunday, also known as the Lord’s day. As more and more gentiles converted, there was some consideration and debate over whether they must become Jews as well as believe in and celebrate Christ. It was eventually concluded by Peter that this was not necessary. Now these Gentiles were not bound by Jewish law, and so had no need to keep both traditions. And so the Sunday Eucharistic celebration came to replace the Jewish Sabbath tradition.
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