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excaliber
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Hello
What SHOULD a traditional RCIA be like. Or dose everyone get together and do whatever they want?
What SHOULD a traditional RCIA be like. Or dose everyone get together and do whatever they want?
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
You are to learn what the Catholic Church Teaches and to prepare to receive the sacraments.
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RUINATION_IPA
Guest
RCIA is a Novus Ordo novelty - you won’t find it in traditional circles.
My wife went through RCIA about 8 years ago. We had dinner with our FSSP Priest the other night and I asked pretty much the same question you asked - since I previously had thought that there was no choice ; that you had to enter RCIA to enter the Church. The Priest said, NO, they’ll give you some orthodox reading material and then you discuss things with your Priest if you have any questions etc… but other than that there is no “traditional RCIA.”
My wife went through RCIA about 8 years ago. We had dinner with our FSSP Priest the other night and I asked pretty much the same question you asked - since I previously had thought that there was no choice ; that you had to enter RCIA to enter the Church. The Priest said, NO, they’ll give you some orthodox reading material and then you discuss things with your Priest if you have any questions etc… but other than that there is no “traditional RCIA.”
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SuscipeMeDomine
Guest
There are rites that someone goes through on the way to being baptized. RCIA is the whole series of rites:
The Rite of Acceptance where someone becomes a catechumen
The Rite of Election where the catechumen becomes one of the elect
Scrutinies or prayers of exorcism on the third, fourth, and fifth Sundays of Lent
Baptism, Confirmation, and First Eucharist at the Easter Vigil
These rites mark movement from one stage of the process to another. The first stage is Inquiry where a person takes the first steps in prayer and faith. This is followed by the Rite of Acceptance and entry into the catechumenate. The catechumenate is a period of instruction and learning about doctrine and practices. This is followed by the Rite of Election and entry into the period of purification and enlightenment. This is a short period of intense prayer and preparation for the sacraments of initiation. At the Easter Vigil the catechumens receive their sacraments and enter into the period of mystagogy where they start to absorb all that has happened and prepare to move from the cocoon of RCIA to being full members of the parish and the Church.
There is an actual rite so that everyone should be doing the same things but it sometimes appears that people haven’t fully understood what it says in the rite.
No, it’s not a novelty. It’s a legitimate, lawful process for persons to enter Holy Mother Church.
The fact that it doesn’t exist in “traditional circles” does not lessen its validity, as you seem to be implying by calling it a novelty.
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stuart12
Guest
our rcia leader does not want the candidates/elect to read much as ‘we dont want intellectuals’, and it would only confuse them anyway.
we only need to remember that ‘Jesus loves us’.
i really wonder what happened to the human element of the Catholic Church in recent years. I have only been a Catholic for a year and am shocked at the state of affairs in most parishes.
the Catholic Church has produced genuises such as St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine of Hippo, St. Bonaventure, St. Ambrose…the list goes on.
none of that theology nonsense, its too difficult and we must remember how unconditionally loved we all are.
yes the second part is true, but thats only half the story.
we only need to remember that ‘Jesus loves us’.
i really wonder what happened to the human element of the Catholic Church in recent years. I have only been a Catholic for a year and am shocked at the state of affairs in most parishes.
the Catholic Church has produced genuises such as St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine of Hippo, St. Bonaventure, St. Ambrose…the list goes on.
none of that theology nonsense, its too difficult and we must remember how unconditionally loved we all are.
yes the second part is true, but thats only half the story.
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Sailor_Kenshin
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These days, pretty much.
Although I hope there are still some RCIA programs that actually teach Church doctrine.
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Stjudeprayforus
Guest
Along with the Rites…
My RCIA class had speakers… the Bishop came, a nun…
it was awesome.
My RCIA class had speakers… the Bishop came, a nun…
it was awesome.
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jmcrae
Guest
I think it is because the Catechists themselves don’t know anything. I was asked to stop leading Inquiry, because my Inquirers knew more than the Catechist did, when they were admitted to the Period of Catechesis.
I was accused of “making” the Inquirers memorize things (because I directed them to those nice little lists and definitions found in the Compendium of the Catechism - how was I supposed to know they were going to actually read and memorize all of that!) and read difficult books (because when they had deep questions that I was not able to answer, I directed them to various books on those subjects).
All I ever did was to answer their questions, and direct them to resources for deeper study on the issues in which they had expressed an interest - which is what I thought the Period of Inquiry was supposed to be all about - asking questions, and finding out, “What is this thing that they call the Catholic Church, anyway?”
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stuart12
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you would be called an ‘extremist’ from where i come from lolI think it is because the Catechists themselves don’t know anything. I was asked to stop leading Inquiry, because my Inquirers knew more than the Catechist did, when they were admitted to the Period of Catechesis.
I was accused of “making” the Inquirers memorize things (because I directed them to those nice little lists and definitions found in the Compendium of the Catechism - how was I supposed to know they were going to actually read and memorize all of that!) and read difficult books (because when they had deep questions that I was not able to answer, I directed them to various books on those subjects).
All I ever did was to answer their questions, and direct them to resources for deeper study on the issues in which they had expressed an interest - which is what I thought the Period of Inquiry was supposed to be all about - asking questions, and finding out, “What is this thing that they call the Catholic Church, anyway?”
good for you, lets keep the Catholic Church, ‘Catholic’.
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RUINATION_IPA
Guest
Why are you so touchy? Novelty: something new or unusual (merriam-webster). RCIA is a new way of doing things so you won’t find it in traditional circles - Is that better?
And for the most part it is NOT legitimate nor lawful since destroying people’s faiths is neither legitimate nor lawful which has been the case for most RCIA programs out there. An orthodox RCIA program is the exception and not the rule.
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Catholicc
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I am no expert, but to me a proper RCIA class will teach authentic Catholicism (not that liberal goofy stuff) and also give catechumens a chance to meet people, get comfortable with their parish community, and experinece the mass for a while before they receive the sacraments.
I don’t think the particulars of how the classes are conducted are nearly as important as being sure that they are not watering down or monkeying around with Catholic teachings.
A potential RCIA student needs to feel out the parish before they sign up. Perhaps contacting the diocese and asking for guidance to find a strong parish that’s in fidelity with the Magisterium would be a good idea, or starting a thread here to get advice from someone in the area…
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jmcrae
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The term “novelty” is typically used for practices not authorized by the Holy See, which arise out of popular piety (such as hand-holding during the Our Father). The Rite of Christian Initation of Adults is a document that was actually written by Pope Paul VI, and came out of several recommendations that were given by the Bishops of the Second Vatican Council.
The fact that the Rite is not implemented very well is completely separate from the fact that the Rite itself is certainly both legitimate and lawful, and in fact, the General Directory for Catechesis (which was also produced by the Vatican itself) recommends that the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults be the pattern and model for all Catechesis in the Church. (I don’t have the paragraph number handy, but I am looking it up right now.)
Sadly, this is true. However, the cure is not to get rid of RCIA altogether - the cure is to begin implementing the RCIA correctly.
This is a complex problem, since not only is there the problem of uncatechized or badly catechized Catechists, there is also the problem of Catechumens who take a minimalistic approach to the process (the “aw, do I have to” response, whenever enrichment opportunities are presented, which causes even the best leaders to rethink all their hard work), and those who simply refuse to participate in the Rites due to shyness, etc., and then wonder why they can’t seem to get to the next level.
Forgive me if I misread your intention. Calling something a “NO novelty” sure seems like you’re expressing a negative opinion about it, but I will take you at your word that you did not mean to call into question the propriety of RCIA as an institution.
I’m glad we agree RCIA is legitimate and lawful. A heterdox RCIA program does not invalidate the legitimacy of RCIA any more than an illicit Mass invalidates the institution of the Mass.
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SuscipeMeDomine
Guest
Yup. My fellow catechists and I are devoting our time to this ministry so that we can destroy people’s faith. Thanks bunches.
By the way, do you actually do anything constructive like teach or do you just take potshots at those who do so?
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Catholicc
Guest
Unfortunately, these days, I have to agree with that statement.
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excaliber
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That sounds good.
But who enforces catholic practice?
so that you don’t have people sitting around doing yoga or something, with no consequence for such actions.
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cyberwolf001
Guest
For my part one reason I am having trouble with the Faith is the Church I learned of in RCIA and the REAL Catholic Church, they ain’t the same places so I’m even now still going what the [CENSORED] have I gotten myself into!?
Especially cuz you know eternal mark on my soul, forever joined to her, can’t go back, once Catholic always Catholic ect. I admit I sometimes feel like I’ve been tricked…
Especially cuz you know eternal mark on my soul, forever joined to her, can’t go back, once Catholic always Catholic ect. I admit I sometimes feel like I’ve been tricked…
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jmcrae
Guest
The priest should be educating himself on the requirements for RCIA, and ensuring that his volunteer RCIA catechists are enabling the Catechumens and Candidates to meet these requirements, and helping them with anything they need help with (finding their Baptismal certificates, getting in contact with the Marriage Tribunal to deal with previous marriages, etc.). If he is too busy to be involved in the process himself, he should at least drop in to the classes every now and then to observe and be available to the participants for questions, and he should meet with the catechists regularly to see how they are doing and to answer any questions they have about the process and about how to help the participants.
There should also be someone in the Bishop’s office who is responsible for training the Catechists. One issue I see is that the training for the Catechists isn’t well advertised, and there aren’t any opportunities for home study for those who can’t make it to the training classes (because volunteers tend to have jobs and families, and can’t always come out to meetings).
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RUINATION_IPA
Guest
Any means of accurately transmitting the faith to individuals is obviously legitimate and lawful - if RCIA can do that effectively then more power to it. Sadly, it hasn’t been the case.
I’m not sure what you mean by “the propriety of RCIA as an institution.” I don’t think that RCIA as a process needs to be defended as if it’s some part of the deposit of faith or something. It has it’s strengths and weaknesess. I would have no problem if they scrapped RCIA tomorrow in favor of something better.
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