Rcia....what is SUPPOSED to happen there?

[Betty101]

I’m a Catholic candidate and have to say how impressed that I’ve been with the entire process including the RCIA program.

I’m so grateful that it exists. I learn so much every week, I always thought I knew my bible growing up in a protestant church. What I have learned is that it is one thing to read it but another to understand it. The lesson we had on what every part of the mass actually means was truly amazing!!

I also understand that I need to make an effort to learn everything that I can, whether it’s reading books on my own time or joining forums like this and asking questions and reading through the posts. Everyone needs to be responsible in educating themselves.

It is sad that not everyone has a wonderful experience or doesn’t learn truly what it means to be Catholic during the process. Just know that for some it is the most amazing process.

 

[rwoehmke]

St. Cyril (died in 373) lists 18 pre-baptismal instructions to be given to catechumens before Baptism in his *Catechetical Lectures *. RCIA has been built on that model. I am not able to list the lessons, but I believe the custom was to initiate (instruct) the catechumen into the mysteries of the Eucharest itself only after Baptism.

I agree that when the program is put on between September and the Easter Vigil one only has time to teach the high points. It thus becomes incumbent on the convert to continue studies on their own after mystigogy. Actually I am 73 years old and have continued to study our Faith since leaving college and their is still a lot of things on which I am totally ignorant.

 

[Shin]

This makes no sense. Of course your RCIA experience will be incomplete. You can’t learn everything in several months at once-a-week classes. And even the best teachers can’t cover it all. And perhaps you were not able to integrate it into a proper life of faith, but others in your class might have had a completely difference response to the teachings.

I would suggest that you drop the “victim” mentality and stop blaming people because they don’t do things your way. Your teachers did the best they could. God can and DID bless and use their efforts.

Even if your teachers are not covering as much as you’d wish, you can always do some self-education to make up the gaps in your education. There are a lot of good books, both traditional and modern, out there, along with the Catechism and the Bible, of course. And CD series, and DVD series, and of course, websites like this one!

You give it a try and see how difficult it is to compress the teachings of 2000 years of the Catholic Church into a few hours a week for a few months.

lol. That’s about the first time I’ve been accused of having a victim mentality. I am not blaming people because they ‘did not do things my way’, I am talking about a failure in catechesis about essentials that should be learned before one goes to Confession, and is Confirmed, and goes to Communion. And that these failures are common due to the collapse of good Catholic education.

It is very easy to screw up being a teacher, it is a hard job, and a job with grave spiritual responsibilities for those involved. It is not to be taken lightly, but one must not let off people who fail at it in the details however good hearted. It is for everyone’s good that one improves catechesis.

I did and do self educate, and encourage it, and note that it is essential for every Catholic. I have simply stated that it is even more essential than many might suspect. RCIA can be a wonderful experience while one goes through it, all the while not suspecting one is missing out key details that matter -now-.

You have completely mischaracterized what I said. Please reconsider in the light of what I have added here.

 

[diggerdomer]

Hello
What SHOULD a traditional RCIA be like. Or dose everyone get together and do whatever they want?

What it should be like is spelled out by the Church in the text: The Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults.

That should be the first place you turn to answer the question.

 

[adstrinity]

These days, pretty much.

Although I hope there are still some RCIA programs that actually teach Church doctrine.

There are! At St. John Cantius in Chicago, the class is taught by a priest who teaches about the Catholic Faith. He teaches the Catholic Faith. There are no kid gloves or liberal reading materials, he teaches what the Church teaches, no holds barred. He teaches Catholic prayers as well.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

lol. That’s about the first time I’ve been accused of having a victim mentality. I am not blaming people because they ‘did not do things my way’, I am talking about a failure in catechesis about essentials that should be learned before one goes to Confession, and is Confirmed, and goes to Communion. And that these failures are common due to the collapse of good Catholic education.

.

I have to agree with this. Poor Catechesis is weakening the Church. The teachers may indeed be ‘doing their best,’ but in some programs, it’s the blind leading the blind.

 

[Stjudeprayforus]

I guess I was another lucky one.

My RCIA experience was amazing and it was the best thing I ever did.

 

[jmcrae]

RCIA… cannot be relied upon in the slightest, sadly. Many catechumens make the mistake of thinking that what they will get from it is going to be reliable and it often is not.

I was one of the sad victims of this, and in fact in my case the RCIA people were good hearted and overall compared to most, quite knowledgeable people. They didn’t have agendas, they wanted to impart the Faith properly. I hate to speak about how they did not do enough. They certainly wanted to. They simply did not have a complete grasp on what they should be teaching and how to teach it. I got one of the best RCIA experiences one is likely to find – and it was not enough. It was quite incomplete.

Hopefully, nobody is relying on a few months of weekly classes in RCIA to receive the entire deposit of the Faith.

For myself, after going through RCIA twice and still not learning as much as I felt I needed to know, I took another 17 years of study, observation, and experiencing as much as is possible for a non-Catholic to experience, before I finally entered the Church (after a final three months of RCIA instruction) - I still could have used another year, to focus on the Sacrament of Penance; however, I entered the Church anyway - and I’m still learning new things all the time.

There is no possible way to go from being a total non-Catholic, never having been to Mass before, to being that person who leads the Rosary and knows everything about Padre Pio, in just those few short months. Even kids born into the faith can’t do it, with daily Religion classes for 12 years straight.

It’s not that there’s anything wrong with their Religion teachers, or with the RCIA catechists - it’s just that the human brain is of limited capacity, and it just takes a really long time to learn it all, and to become inculturated.

 

[otjm]

Why are you so touchy? Novelty: something new or unusual (merriam-webster). RCIA is a new way of doing things so you won’t find it in traditional circles - Is that better?

Touchy? Or is it just that you could have used a term that was not impliedly derogatory? Given the fact that it is an official procedure formally adopted by the Church, it is hardly “novelty”, although it may be “new”.

And for the most part it is NOT legitimate nor lawful since destroying people’s faiths is neither legitimate nor lawful which has been the case for most RCIA programs out there. An orthodox RCIA program is the exception and not the rule.

So I take it you ahve done an offical survey - I would assume that your survey, or at least the result of it, have been published in a known peer-review journal? Or are you just spouting off because you have an opinion? Or perhaps ist is not just an opinion, but you are relying on an actual survey that you came across - and perhaps would like to share with us? You have some extremely strong opinions; given the number of parishes out there, you are making a rather bold statement. “Most”? And how many diocese, let alone parishes, do you actually have experience in this matter?

 

[PJM]

Hello
What SHOULD a traditional RCIA be like. Or dose everyone get together and do whatever they want?

Many Bishops issue guidelines for their Diocese. But most Pastors seem “to do their own thing”

RCIA itself has three components.

First is a period of “Discernment” where one in introduced to TRUE Catholicism. Myths are discussed, and the basic beliefs of the RCC are shared.

The goal is to provide sufficient information for one to decide if the RC Faith MIGHT be for them? No commitment required at this point. NO PRESSUE AT ALL TO COMMIT!

Next come more in-depth instruction of our Faith, and a series of commitments. The Scrunites are a part of this step. And we have a “Breaking of the Word” program where right after the Sermon (homily) all of the Candidates and Catechumens leave the church and retire to a separate to discuss how to use the bible, and further discussion on the day’s readings.

This second series of classes ask for a Commitment. If you feel that you still wish to become a RC, this usually happens at The Easter Vigil (Saturday B4 EASTER), when the Sacraments “Of Initiation”: Baptism (if required) Confirmation and First Communion are administered.

You are now officially a member of the RCC!

This is usually followed by a “more intense” period of study.

Our Program runs from October through May.

Times for questions and answers are given at each class.

Hope you find this helpful?

Love and prayers,

 

[otjm]

However, I agree with you about the oath against modernism. If every Catechist had to take this oath, we’d eliminate a lot of inadvertent heresy in the process.

OK, time to apply a little logic.

Assuming for the moment that the oath was re-instituted, what history do we have to show that it would have any effect at all?

In short, none. Zero. Absolutley nada.

The oath was in existence through the Council. The explosion we had - which was not due to the Council or its documents, but was attributed directly to the instantaneous response to Humanae Vitae, which came after the Council, was an explosion which was lead by priests who were ordained well before Vatican 2 - and every one of whom had taken the oath. And it was this same group that lead others (many of whom had attended seminaries, just like the leaders, and learned a theology skewed by Modernism, taught by priests and theologians all of whom had taken the oath) into the rancerous process that in turn lead to the dumbing-down of catechesis, and most of the rest of the la-la we have endured for the last 40 years or so.

Anyone who believes that the oath stamped out Mondernism or any of the intellectual spin-offs it created should come out west and see me: I have some gorgeous ocean-front property for sale in Arizona.

I don’t mean to diss all theologians, but the Church will get back on track when people get back to what the Church, through the Magisterium, actually teaches, and not what Father so and so, or Theologian what’s their name, or Sister feminazi, spout off about. Or for that matter, what some poorly informed catechist puts forth.

and this is going to take time; possibly more than all our lifetimes.

 

[jmcrae]

OK, time to apply a little logic.

Assuming for the moment that the oath was re-instituted, what history do we have to show that it would have any effect at all?

In short, none. Zero. Absolutley nada.

Actually, I think it might be educational for people to realize that the Church does not, in fact, teach the Evolutionary theory, or any form of Socialism, or that scientific progress is the highest good.

It would expose Catechists to the fact that not everything they learned as a child in Catholic school was actually Catholic teaching. Some of it was pure you-know-what.

I am a pur laine Vatican II Catholic, by the way - who happens to understand that many of the things done in the name of “the spirit of Vatican II” were, in fact, wrong - and that there has been a catastrophic failure of catechesis in the past 40-50 years, not because of the Council, but because of radical shifts in the culture that affected not only religious education, but every other kind of education as well, to the point where there are people who can just barely read, write, add, and subtract, who think that they are “well educated.”

 

[Phemie]

What it should be like is spelled out by the Church in the text: The Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults.

That should be the first place you turn to answer the question.

But the Rite is only the skeleton. It outlines the periods and steps, tells us how to celebrate each but it doesn’t tell us what to teach or how. It’s up to each parish to flesh out that skeleton and Parishes differ in how they actually teach the faith.

A few years ago we had a 10 year old who asked to be baptized. Being the only catechumen, she was taught 1 on 1 by the Sister who was in the parish at the time. Her formal instruction period lasted a little over a year and she was baptized at the Vigil about 18 months after she first inquired (when her baby sisters were baptized).

Recently we had someone received into full Communion. It was a big secret that she was even inquiring and it was kept hush hush until almost the end. Her preparation was done by someone who didn’t have a clue what to use for material and had never seen the CCC, someone who had never been involved in catechesis in the parish at any level but took it upon herself to ‘prepare’ this candidate. Just how much did she learn??

So yes, different parishes will provide more or less catechesis depending on the teachers, the pastor’s enthusiasm and involvement, the time, etc., etc. That’s still no reason to throw out the baby with the bath water.

 

[diggerdomer]

But the Rite is only the skeleton. It outlines the periods and steps, tells us how to celebrate each but it doesn’t tell us what to teach or how. It’s up to each parish to flesh out that skeleton and Parishes differ in how they actually teach the faith.

Right, but I’m saying the first place to start answering the question would be the text of the Rite. And, I think it does more than just outline periods and steps, it also provides the principles and theological bases for the process. Yes, it doesn’t tell us what to teach or how, specifically, but how and what a given parish does must flow from their understanding and appropriation of the complete Rite (imho). So, again, that’s what I’d recommend as the first place to turn to in crafting an answer.

 

[PJM]

=RUINATION_IPA;5042138]RCIA is a Novus Ordo novelty - you won’t find it in traditional circles.

My wife went through RCIA about 8 years ago. We had dinner with our FSSP Priest the other night and I asked pretty much the same question you asked - since I previously had thought that there was no choice ; that you had to enter RCIA to enter the Church. The Priest said, NO, they’ll give you some orthodox reading material and then you discuss things with your Priest if you have any questions etc… but other than that there is no “traditional RCIA.”

Friend,

May I respectfully suggest you contact your bishop or the Diocesan Education office.

I suspect your priest may be in error?

Look in your Diocesan News paper for contact information.

Love and prayers,

 

[otjm]

As is so often the case, what we have in this thread is a lot of opinion not necessarily backed by facts, other than personal experience and anecdote.

The Rite of RCIA was set forth not in a week or two as a haphazard “gee, wouldn’t this be nice” change. It is the result of a very long time of study of the Church, and it’s history in relation to the Sacraments. The rite, however, does not specifically mandate that a catechumen or a candidate be taught in a specific format, or be taught specific things. The purpose of the rite is to do two things: present the teachings of the Church and assist the individual in the growth of their faith.

It might be noted that the early Church followed a program that varied from somewhere around a year to as much as a three year process. And this was at a time when, starting, they didn’t have a Bible, as early on the New Testamanet wasn’t even written. Further, they did not teach apologetics as we know it, because apologetics as we know it answers questions that weren’t even asked for centuries.

For those who want a simple process formed around apologetics, it might be good to remember that even the devil can quote Scripture. That is not to be dismissive of apologetics or that approach; but presuming that apologetics is sufficient in and of itself, without any structure to assist the individual in growing their faith is to ignore not only the thinking of the Church but also to ignore Church history and what it teaches us.

And for those who want a rigid thoroughly defined process and structure, I would suggest that we have never had that; whatever process we have had has been something that was flexible.

That is not to say that the day-to-day nuts and bolts of the RCIA process, as opposed to the ritual parts itself is above any criticism or changes. Our Sunday Visitor several years ago had an article or a short series on RCIA. As they pointed out, there tend to be two extremes about the rite and process; one extreme wants to throw it out and go to apologetics, and the other extreme wants to maintain a Lectionary process but not extend into any specifically apologetical or doctrinal teaching process.

The real need seems to be between the two extremes.

The Lectionary process, which is the favored agenda now, of necessity should be a year-around program. It needs to be that if for no other reason than that the Gospel passages of the Eucharist are read during the summer. Trying to squeeze the program into September to Pentacost simply short-circuits the value of a Letionary process without any justifiable reasoning.

And before anyone gets to heated up about the Lectionary, it might be helpful to remember that there isn’t a whole lot about our faith that is not caontained in Scripture, either explicitly or indirectly.

And while supporting the Lectionary process, it makes sense that other items are treated specifically; either because of a recognized need from the individuals goign trough it, or because of the necessity of issues that do not arise in the Gospel readings.

That there are bad experiences with RCIA is like bad experiences with the OF; they happen. They shouldn’t. The reality is that we are continuing to reap the rewards of the dumbing down of catechetical materials that started in the 70’s and infected such a wide swath of Catholics. The reality is also that this is gradually changing. We are getting better trained and better infromed priests - the “John Paul 2” generation of priests comes immediately to mind. There are more and more materials available to those who seek them out - and they are not hard to find - that teach what the Magisterium teaches. The older group that went off in its own image an likeness is getting older and older, starting to die off, and they are not recruiting a new group to follow their path.

However, to those who insist that the RCIA process is mostly bad, I would suggest that simply reading the number of posts herein which are of a postive ot very positive note should cause one to slow down in the casting of aspersions.

 

[Joannm]

For anyone looking to discover what needs to be taught, just look to the national Directory for Catechesis. Chapter 5 is especially good in giving an overview of what needs to be taught with regard to sacraments. Chapter 6 deals with Morality. It gives resources, formation for catechistis and lots of other good stuff.

 

[Charbeau]

I am still in RCIA, I just became a member of the Catholic church at the Easter Vigil on Saturday, but our classes will continue through the end of May.

In my experience, RCIA has a lot going for it but also some need for improvement. First, it appeared that a good portion of my class was there because they are in a marriage in which their partner is Catholic and they want to join the Church because of that, not because they feel any real desire to convert in all ways to true Roman Catholicism. The RCIA leadership team at my parish also consisted entirely of cradle Catholics and to be honest that was a serious weakness. They were not prepared to answer a lot of the questions I had as a former Protestant and most of what I learned about the Church I learned on my own through outside reading. It is sort of like the appetizer version of Catholicism - they give you a teensy taste at RCIA, whatever can be squeezed into an hour and a half per week, the set time period for the class. On the other hand, the RCIA team were all lovely, dedicated and practicing Catholics, and the material that was presented was accurate even if it was unpopular (the class on Theology of the Body springs to mind) with many of my classmates. Our priest was also involved a great deal.

One thing that the class offered was at the beginning of each class people who participate in various ministries in the parish spoke to the group and over the course of several months it allowed us all to get a wider picture of parish life and programs, bible studies, etc. that we could participate in.

I would say that RCIA offers participants the tiniest tip of the iceberg and that participants are going to have to be willing to read and seek out more information on their own. The Church has a vast amount of theology and history and I don’t think it is really possible to be thoroughly catechized in RCIA because there just isn’t enough time or (in my experience) class interest and participation.