RCIA woes

[jlyn1110]

After reading some other threads in this forum, I’m feeling very frustrated. I’m currently enrolled in RCIA at my university’s Catholic center, and I’m feeling more and more that, despite good intentions, the director of the formation is taking liberties that are not his to take.

The Rite of the Elect was this weekend and, though myself and another person in the group were both baptized (legitimately) in other faith traditions, we were instructed to sign the Book of the Elect. Later that day, in the ceremony at the cathedral, we were also called forth as “individuals formerly known as catechumens.” And now there’s talk of re-baptizing us at the Vigil!

I plan to go to the priest later this week to get everything sorted out, but I’m genuinely concerned that the formation director will recommend another year of classes for me if I question the way he is doing things. This man and several of my good friends had an issue last year over the establishment of a Knights of Columbus council on campus, and I worry that last year’s politics have colored his opinions of me.

Before I began RCIA, I read about what I would need to do in order to become a member of the Catholic Church. Being re-baptized was NOT on the list.

Any thoughts/advice/prayers would be greatly appreciated!

 

[jmcrae]

Were you asked for a copy of your Baptismal record?

If he has a copy of your Baptismal record, and if the record shows that you were baptized with water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, then he has no business treating you like an unbaptized person.

If he has no record of your baptism, then he might be treating you as a person going for “conditional baptism.” This is something you want to get straightened out as soon as possible - especially since at some point this Lent you will be wanting to make arrangements for your First Confession so that you can be Confirmed and receive your First Holy Communion in a state of grace.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

After reading some other threads in this forum, I’m feeling very frustrated. I’m currently enrolled in RCIA at my university’s Catholic center, and I’m feeling more and more that, despite good intentions, the director of the formation is taking liberties that are not his to take.

The Rite of the Elect was this weekend and, though myself and another person in the group were both baptized (legitimately) in other faith traditions, we were instructed to sign the Book of the Elect. Later that day, in the ceremony at the cathedral, we were also called forth as “individuals formerly known as catechumens.” And now there’s talk of re-baptizing us at the Vigil!

I plan to go to the priest later this week to get everything sorted out, but I’m genuinely concerned that the formation director will recommend another year of classes for me if I question the way he is doing things. This man and several of my good friends had an issue last year over the establishment of a Knights of Columbus council on campus, and I worry that last year’s politics have colored his opinions of me.

Before I began RCIA, I read about what I would need to do in order to become a member of the Catholic Church. Being re-baptized was NOT on the list.

Any thoughts/advice/prayers would be greatly appreciated!

Well it was a domino effect. Since you signed the book, those at the cathedral assumed that you were Catechumens and therefore went through the Rite of Election. Where the Bishop has given his permission for you to be Baptized. Since it was assumed that you were not Baptized because you signed the Book of the Elect.

The Formation director needs to be replaced. Do not fear his or her actions. Speak with the pastor and if necessary write a letter to the Bishop explaining that both of you were Candidates and were “forced” to sign the Book of the Elect as Catechumens and are now being treated as un-Baptized. The Church can never re-Baptize or even give the impression that she does, great care is taken to avoid this, by offering Conditional Baptism only when necessary and always in private, not at a public Rite.

 

[revelations]

Once baptized you’re good for life…that is if it is of water and in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

This weekend I too participated in the rite of election, it was awesome. Our Archbishop also happened to be the cardinal so it was extra special

Anyways, i am a candidate for full communion. They have my baptismal certificate. They know i’m baptized. I signed the book anyways. We all signed the book (all 220 of us). There was some confusion as to what was going on and who were the catecumens and who weren’t and what not…but our local priest knows who I am and what I am going to do at easter.

Get a hold of your baptism certificate. If you don’t have one, then you WILL be conditionally baptised at easter “if you are not already baptized, i baptize you in the name of…”

-revelatiosn

 

[Texas_Roofer]

… The Rite of the Elect was this weekend and, though myself and another person in the group were both baptized (legitimately) in other faith traditions, we were instructed to sign the Book of the Elect. Later that day, in the ceremony at the cathedral, we were also called forth as “individuals formerly known as catechumens.” And now there’s talk of re-baptizing us at the Vigil!

I plan to go to the priest later this week to get everything sorted out…

The director does not baptize anybody. You owe it to the Priest to inform him well before Easter you are properly baptized he is aware of the Church teachings. No need to mention any past issues. Often due to a lack of volunteer labor many (catechumens, candidates, all ages) are processed together simply because other teachers (or any teachers) are not available. Signing the book of Elect has no real meaning as you were already Elect. A second baptism would be invalid because only one proper baptism counts. Realize the director is trying to do his best and try to avoid conflict. I know these are big issues to many however try to see the other side look at how many times people like me go up to the altar, cathedral, dismissal, etc, etc. The bottom line is being catholic is a life long endeavor which never starts or ends with a single event.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Once baptized you’re good for life…that is if it is of water and in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

This weekend I too participated in the rite of election, it was awesome. Our Archbishop also happened to be the cardinal so it was extra special

Anyways, i am a candidate for full communion. They have my baptismal certificate. They know i’m baptized. I signed the book anyways. We all signed the book (all 220 of us). There was some confusion as to what was going on and who were the catecumens and who weren’t and what not…but our local priest knows who I am and what I am going to do at easter.

Get a hold of your baptism certificate. If you don’t have one, then you WILL be conditionally baptised at easter “if you are not already baptized, i baptize you in the name of…”

-revelatiosn

Just for the benefit of others who will read this in the future.

Only Catechumens (those not Baptized) sign the Book of the Elect and participate in the Rite of Election.

Candidates (those already validly Baptized) do not. They participate in the Call to Continuing Conversion.

 

[sheila0405]

“We believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins…”

There is no such thing as re-baptism. There is such a thing as a provisional baptism. That is what I received when I came into the Church. My valid baptism of my youth was not able to be proved, because my protestant church did not keep records, and my baptismal certificate had been long before lost.

Perhaps your director isn’t sure you were validly baptized. Do you have proof? I agree that this matter must be settled quickly–go to your priest if you can’t get satisfaction in your class. God bless you.

 

[kettle]

Get a hold of your baptism certificate. If you don’t have one, then you WILL be conditionally baptised at easter “if you are not already baptized, i baptize you in the name of…”

I just want to share one small thing here…

I do not have a baptismal certificate. The original was lost in the flood in 1993 along with the pictures, and the church where I was baptized as an infant in 1971 could not find my record. My priest required my mother to make a statement (in writing and notarized) that I was baptized in the Episcopal church as an infant. So, in spite of not having a baptismal certificate, my baptism was still recognized, and I am not required to have a conditional baptism.

 

[texaspanda]

I have read several threads about RE directors not following the rules or teaching what they are supposed to be. For this I am glad that Father Pat teaches our RCIA class of 250.

 

[puzzleannie]

if no written record of baptism can be located, the fact of baptism, attesting the place, date, minister, and that it was with water and Trinitarian forumula, can be attested and sworn by witness such as parents, godparents, other family or reliable witnesses, and that will be accepted, and the facts noted in the records of the parish where the candidate is received into the Church.

the choice to join the catechumens at the dismissal for Breaking open the Word, or staying for the rest of Mass and joining the class afterwards belongs to the candidate.

make sure right now the RCIA director, your catechist, and the priest who will be receiving you into the Church understand your status now. I am willing to bet this situation is a paperwork problem and a communication problem, and the person in charge of your group has not taken the time to look at the status of everyone in the process.

you certainly do not need another year of class even if mistakenly you were present for “the wrong rite”. In any case the parallel rites for the baptized are optional, except of course for the actual sacraments, not required. All that is necessary is to make sure your baptism is documented and recognized and that the Easter sacraments are properly conferred.

 

[seeker70]

I participated in the Rite of Election this weekend here in Austin, Texas. I was baptized in the Southern Baptist church when I was 5. I was included with the Catachumens because I will make a profession of faith at the Easter Vigil. Everyone, Catachumens and Candidates, signed one book, which was then endorsed by the Bishop.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I participated in the Rite of Election this weekend here in Austin, Texas. I was baptized in the Southern Baptist church when I was 5. I was included with the Catachumens because I will make a profession of faith at the Easter Vigil. Everyone, Catachumens and Candidates, signed one book, which was then endorsed by the Bishop.

I’m beginning to think trying to implement RCIA properly is a waste of time and a lost cause!! So many Directors, DRE’s and others don’t want to do it properly or will find one excuse or another not to. I had a conversation yesterday about a DRE who chastised a group for not all being at Ash Wednesday Mass. They said that all are required to be at Mass on all Holy Days of Obligation!

Ummm, Ash Wednesday is not a Holy Day of Obligation!!

How do people who don’t know what they are doing or even know the Catholic faith get into these positions.

 

[love4mary]

When I went through RCIA, I also signed the Book of the Elect and participated in all the Pre-Easter Rites. It was an experience I will never forget and it added immeasurably in my journey of faith. I was also baptized as as infant in the Catholic Church but grew up an atheist.

As long as you have your baptismal certificates in order and you are NOT re-baptized at the Easter Vigil, I cannot see any harm in going through ALL the Rites. At each step of the way, I could feel the presence of the Holy Spirit working within me:thumbsup:

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

How do people who don’t know what they are doing or even know the Catholic faith get into these positions.

Probably because they were the only ones willing to volunteer.

RCIA takes a big chunk of time and not a lot of people are willing to commit that much. There are the weekly sessions which, on the weeks I lead, means not only the hour and a half we meet, but at least several hours of preparation. When someone leads a dismissal it means that they have to attend a second Mass that weekend. I prepare prayer guides each week and that takes more time.

Finding people who are willing to give that much isn’t easy. So you may end up with well meaning people who miss various things along the way. It would be nice if everyone had to meet minimal standards of competence, but I won’t hold my breath for that to happen.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

I’m beginning to think trying to implement RCIA properly is a waste of time and a lost cause!! So many Directors, DRE’s and others don’t want to do it properly or will find one excuse or another not to. …How do people who don’t know what they are doing or even know the Catholic faith get into these positions.

That may be directed at the wrong people? If someone who does not want to teach the class as they do not feel qualified is the best option the Priest has he (or she) should not be chastised. Many, many programs are underfunded, under manned, and under educated, yet they do the best they can. It reminds me of the early church, they were not so uppity either

 

[CatholicMom67]

HI First Congads on your RCIA and the Rite of Election! I am a convert as of Easter Vigil 2007.

I did not have my daughters Baptism record last year for her First Communion. I called the church office and they secretary made her a new one. The Lutheran Minister signed it and my Father in Law who is the God Parent signed it too. Maybe they can do that for you?

I was baptised in the Lutheran church and my husband in the Catholic church as an infant but never attended Catholic. We both went through RCIA last year and were former Lutherans. I signed the Book of the Elect too. It really bothered me I was treated like a non baptised person, but I decided that I should humbled myself and just rode it through.

You are so close to the Easter Vigil. Do whatever you can to make sure the Priest knows you are validly baptised and you should not be grouped in with those who are not. You should not have to take the RCIA again another year that is not right.

Bless you on your RCIA journey!

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Probably because they were the only ones willing to volunteer.

RCIA takes a big chunk of time and not a lot of people are willing to commit that much. There are the weekly sessions which, on the weeks I lead, means not only the hour and a half we meet, but at least several hours of preparation. When someone leads a dismissal it means that they have to attend a second Mass that weekend. I prepare prayer guides each week and that takes more time.

Finding people who are willing to give that much isn’t easy. So you may end up with well meaning people who miss various things along the way. It would be nice if everyone had to meet minimal standards of competence, but I won’t hold my breath for that to happen.

I exhailed this morning and took another breath, I couldn’t hold it any longer. I’m almost of the opinion that maybe it might be better if we are not going to do it right, don’t do it at all?

 

[jmcrae]

I exhailed this morning and took another breath, I couldn’t hold it any longer. I’m almost of the opinion that maybe it might be better if we are not going to do it right, don’t do it at all?

Except that, according to G. K. Chesterton, the things most worth doing are worth doing badly?

After all, despite doing absolutely everything wrong, somehow, the people manage to become Catholic, and sometimes they even become very good Catholics, in spite of going through all the wrong Rites, or no Rites at all, and receiving really poor Catechesis, and having no clue how to go to Mass or to Confession, etc.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I exhailed this morning and took another breath, I couldn’t hold it any longer. I’m almost of the opinion that maybe it might be better if we are not going to do it right, don’t do it at all?

Jesus said to go out and make disciples of all nations. He didn’t limit that instruction to people who are perfect.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Jesus said to go out and make disciples of all nations. He didn’t limit that instruction to people who are perfect.

I am in no way faulting the Catechumens or Candidates, It is they who endure this confusion but as was said sometimes turn out Ok.