RE: Calvinism

[fhansen]

If God is good and also omniscient, and knows a person will chose hell, why would he then create us anyway? Isn’t that a lot like creating us for hell? (This discussion was brought about by a Calvinist using this example to support their view) Thank you.

He can’t help but know; He’s omniscient and exists in eternity, not time. And our free choices remain our free choices regardless of whether a God-the God- is looking or not. We act out our own dramas either way, and He entered time and also played His part, obviously not disdaining the temporal or dismissing those things which transpire within it as irrelevant, but affirming that our choices and actions all have real meaning and consequences. Within the dimension of time we have the opportunity to work out our salvation, and He meets us here to help us do just that.

 

[STT]

???
May I see the syllogism that demonstrates such?

This is what I said: One cannot set up a moral system if bad can be rationalized by a person.

Here please find syllogism given the definition of rationality and what I said:

P1) A moral system is a system which rationally prohibit bad and encourage good
P2) Bad can be also rationally encouraged
C) Therefore morality does not exist

 

[ProdglArchitect]

What I am saying is that your act of watching pornography is irrational if you think it is bad. Therefore you are irrational since you committed an irrational act. You either broke up and give up your resistance to temptation or feeling.

As I said, committing an irrational act does not make the person themselves irrational. Giving in to temptation does not make me irrational, it makes me weak. I am still fully, rationally, recognizing that what I’m doing is wrong. I’m just doing it because at that moment I value the end it brings more than I value my relationship with God. The fact that this is an irrational position does not mean I was irrational when I chose it, or that I am not responsible for that choice.

I do agree that habit can diminish the ability to approach a particular sin rationally, especially when it comes to things like drugs and pornography, but that does not remove our culpability for sinning. Even if it does, we shouldn’t act as if it does because we do not know, and because that would lead to spiritual laziness and a disregard for the moral law.

 

[Vonsalza]

This is what I said: One cannot set up a moral system if bad can be rationalized by a person.

Here please find syllogism given the definition of rationality and what I said:

P1) A moral system is a system which rationally prohibit bad and encourage good
P2) Bad can be also rationally encouraged
C) Therefore morality does not exist

Then as expected, I reject your premise as axiomatic. As does anyone that commits “bad”.

 

[STT]

Then as expected, I reject your premise as axiomatic. As does anyone that commits “bad”.

Therefore performing bad is irrational. So why we should punish irrational?

 

[STT]

As I said, committing an irrational act does not make the person themselves irrational. Giving in to temptation does not make me irrational, it makes me weak. I am still fully, rationally, recognizing that what I’m doing is wrong. I’m just doing it because at that moment I value the end it brings more than I value my relationship with God. The fact that this is an irrational position does not mean I was irrational when I chose it, or that I am not responsible for that choice.

I do agree that habit can diminish the ability to approach a particular sin rationally, especially when it comes to things like drugs and pornography, but that does not remove our culpability for sinning. Even if it does, we shouldn’t act as if it does because we do not know, and because that would lead to spiritual laziness and a disregard for the moral law.

Please read post #22 and afterward.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Please read post #22 and afterward.

I did. I agree with Vonsalza. It’s a nonsense proof. I can rationalize away an evil act. That doesn’t make the act itself rational, it also doesn’t free me from the consequence of making the “irrational” choice. You haven’t actually addressed anything, you just keep repeating yourself… like normal.

Making an irrational decision does not make me irrational. What makes a person irrational is the inability to discern what is rational. I can definitely determine what the rational choice is, but that doesn’t mean I have to chose it.

 

[STT]

I did. I agree with Vonsalza. It’s a nonsense proof.

That is not nonsense proof. You could say that you don’t agree with a premise as Vonsalza did yet you still has to deal with another problem which is that you cannot rationalize an evil act.

I can rationalize away an evil act.

You cannot. There would no moral system if you could rationalize evil act.

That doesn’t make the act itself rational, it also doesn’t free me from the consequence of making the “irrational” choice.

So you are a rational person committing a irrational act. That is nonsense.

You haven’t actually addressed anything, you just keep repeating yourself… like normal.

I don’t think so. I have an argument for what I am claiming.

Making an irrational decision does not make me irrational.

It does. Irrationality has levels. Could you cut your arm for no specific reason? No. Why? Because you are a rational being. Otherwise you are irrational.

What makes a person irrational is the inability to discern what is rational.

That is not correct. Ignorance has nothing to do with rationality. You could be a ignorant person and do irrational acts which are rational from your point of view.

I can definitely determine what the rational choice is, but that doesn’t mean I have to chose it.

That I agree.

 

[Entwhistler]

Therefore performing bad is irrational. So why we should punish irrational?

If what you say is true, then there should be no such thing as a Justice system here in the USA. If you believe that doing bad is irrational, do you just let the irrational behavior continue? They should not be punished because they acted irrationally?

 

[STT]

If what you say is true, then there should be no such thing as a Justice system here in the USA. If you believe that doing bad is irrational, do you just let the irrational behavior continue? They should not be punished because they acted irrationally?

Hospital is the right place for irrationals.