Re:Define Social Justice In plain english

[sawman]

In my diocese, The oldest in the country,my experience has led me to associate “social justice” with extreme left wing political ideals and parties.I’ve read Pope Leo XIII, I’ve read the Catechism.The problem is that in my locality social justice activities are almost exclusivly defined and use the terminology of communists or socialists.I find this borrowing of language from the political movements that have so ravaged the Church to be not only offensive but maybe heretical.I would appreciate some (name removed by moderator)ut that would help me be more understanding of Church teaching and allow me to understand the genesis of the leftist usurpation of what used to be corporal works of mercy.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

If social justice means communism to you, I’m afraid nobody has that much time.

 

[Gisella]

I noticed this myself. I’ve associated it with high taxes, big government spending, and soft on crime policies. I don’t think that is the original meaning, but it seems like it is what it has become politically.

 

[buffalo]

The 1/2 of the Bible that currently is being taught and preached.

The other 1/2 is routinely ignored.

 

[PatrickJT914]

I agree Sawman and Gisella. I am also having difficulty with this
whole “Social Justice” issue. Take for example on the question of
illegal immigration. Who gets social justice only the illegals?
Or the citizens? After all who basically pays for all the entitlement
programs? Schools and education? Crime and imprisonment? The
effects of such? Graffitti and its removal? Run down parks? Run
down neighborhoods? Health care and uninsured persons? Over-
crowding? Pollution,noise and otherwise? Bilingual information?
and others. Where is our social justice and rights? Isn’t it a two-
way street? What will happen if, Americans can’t even support
themselves? Do two wrongs make a right? Just a thought.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

In my diocese, The oldest in the country,my experience has led me to associate “social justice” with extreme left wing political ideals and parties.I’ve read Pope Leo XIII, I’ve read the Catechism.The problem is that in my locality social justice activities are almost exclusivly defined and use the terminology of communists or socialists.I find this borrowing of language from the political movements that have so ravaged the Church to be not only offensive but maybe heretical.I would appreciate some (name removed by moderator)ut that would help me be more understanding of Church teaching and allow me to understand the genesis of the leftist usurpation of what used to be corporal works of mercy.

What is your definition then compared to what you have seen?

 

[Dale_M]

Sawman, you might might find the Catechism helpful:
vatican.net/archive/catechism/p3s1c2a3.htm

 

[Green_Tea]

In my experience, both within the Church and without it, “social justice” refers to the attempt to redress situations of social inequity, oppression, and abuse. This is usually cast in opposition to the perpetuation of social structures that produce such situations.

(It could be, of course, that I haven’t heard enough about “social justice” from the Church, or from others, or both.)

 

[sawman]

I’ve read the Catechism etc. How does “speaking truth to power” or discussing Noam Chomsky have anything to do with corporal works of mercy? Anyway, just what does “speaking truth to power” mean?Why do the social justice weenies get to define the grounds of any discussion?They refuse to call illegal aliens that name which is what they are,they love to make homes for battered women a station of the cross at lent,or a soup kitchen like nobody cares about the things that concern them unless you sign onto the whole program.

 

[IrishAm]

Social Justice - Liberation Theology without the heresy.

(This definition is meant to be offered in an absolutely non judgmental manner.)

 

[sawman]

Social Justice - Liberation Theology without the heresy.

(This definition is meant to be offered in an absolutely non judgmental manner.)

Can you elaborate? As far as I know Liberation theology is a heresy. What part is thrown out of L.T.? As practised around here,social justise has lost it’s Christocentrism.Maybe not formalybut the central focus of this ministry is mankind not Christ.Almost to the exclusion of Christ and the Church.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Social Justice - Liberation Theology without the heresy.

(This definition is meant to be offered in an absolutely non judgmental manner.)

Seems to me that’s a pretty good inclusive definition, though both sides of the equation are somewhat murky, at least to me. It has always seemed to me that the term “social justice”, as opposed to the term “charity” has a sort of coercive assumption within it.

The latter is a voluntary act or acts we undertake because of our love of God and our desire to obey His commandment.

The former always seems to have a political dimension; support for this level of taxation, regulation, redistribution, etc. Political actions are coercive of their nature as they compel “X” number of citizens to act according the wishes of “Y” number of people.

I’m not without a belief in the right exercise of governmental power to achieve material goals for the citizenry. I do know that when I read the social encyclicals, I find nothing in them with which I disagree. But it also seems that when I read some exhortation concerning “social justice”, I disagree with a great deal of it.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

I’ve read the Catechism etc. How does “speaking truth to power” or discussing Noam Chomsky have anything to do with corporal works of mercy? Anyway, just what does “speaking truth to power” mean?Why do the social justice weenies get to define the grounds of any discussion?They refuse to call illegal aliens that name which is what they are,they love to make homes for battered women a station of the cross at lent,or a soup kitchen like nobody cares about the things that concern them unless you sign onto the whole program.

Immigration in Catholic Social Justice Teachings (search one of many threads around here) looks at each person. Nationality or the reason they crossed the border is irrelevant, as it often quickly gets in to dehumanizing language.

It is about looking at the world from the perspective of the lowest among us, which while it follows the Gospels does run into inter-Church politics and the power structure of the Church. Does the Church serve the people or people serve the Church?

It cannot live in a vacuum, as any movement in the Church usually has secular parallels in the world which are followed due to similarities. For Social Justice specifically, it is forming bonds with others in Solidarity to help accomplish a goal, the thinking going that many with little can accomplish more than one or a few with much.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Can you elaborate? As far as I know Liberation theology is a heresy. What part is thrown out of L.T.? As practised around here,social justise has lost it’s Christocentrism.Maybe not formalybut the central focus of this ministry is mankind not Christ.Almost to the exclusion of Christ and the Church.

No, Liberation Theology is not a heresy. It is not looked highly upon in some Church circles due to inter-Church politics and the question of Does the Church serve the People, or Does the People Serve the Church?

 

[dbacks5439]

I would suggest reading “Harvest of Justice” by the USCCB. Just go to their website usccb.org and search for Harvest of justice. Even though it was written in 1993, it has much relevance to today’s time.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I would suggest reading “Harvest of Justice” by the USCCB. Just go to their website usccb.org and search for Harvest of justice. Even though it was written in 1993, it has much relevance to today’s time.

This source is consistent with my observation. I don’t imagine there are many Catholics who want the poor to suffer or die for lack of healthcare, for example. But there is a great deal of diversity in the policy positions of Catholics of good will concerning what measures, if any, the government ought to take concerning the delivery of healthcare. There is considerable disagreement concerning how many are without healthcare resources, why, exactly, certain people do not have healthcare coverage or how long they are without it. Some feel the government itself is the problem, or a large part of it.

Yet the USCCB accepts as given a statistic of who is uninsured, concludes that they need coverage and urges the government to make sure everyone is covered. In doing so, the USCCB simply ignores the fact that this is likely a prudential judgment and enjoins the government to coerce a result. It is coercion, since contributions to the government’s coffers and acceptance of a particular mode of delivery is enforced by the might of the state.

In what I read at least, there is nothing about charity in it. There are Catholic doctors, hospitals, NPs, dentists, chiropractors and nurses. Once upon a time, Catholic hospitals really were charitable. In my own lifetime they were. Now, they base their charges on the absolute lie of “reasonable and necessary” and will bankrupt you as fast as any other will. There is no encouragement of dioceses or large parishes to establish nursing facilities for recuperative care, free clinics or anything of that sort. No appeal to healthcare professionals or laypersons who might be of service, to give of themselves.

It’s a resort to coercion by the state. Completely aside from the interminable arguments all sorts of people have about healthcare needs and remedies, (and I do not invite their reiteration here) the appeal is to state action to “fix” it in a particular political way.

The USCCB’s “social justice” appeals are largely of that sort across the board. It is no surprise to me that the term “social justice” is greeted with suspicion by some Catholics. Nor is it a surprise to me that the USCCB itself is viewed with disdain by many Catholics (including many on here) who consider it a political body identifiable with a particular political party, rather than a religious body.

 

[Dale_M]

I’ve read the Catechism etc. How does “speaking truth to power” or discussing Noam Chomsky have anything to do with corporal works of mercy?

I don’t understand Noam Chomsky, nor do I understand his appeal (I tried reading one of his books, once…zzzzzzzz). I’m guessing that the phrase “social justice” became associated with the left because they started using it, and folks in the center and the right side of the political spectrum simply didn’t use it. Social justice could have used by the religious right, if they had cared to do so.

Anyway, just what does “speaking truth to power” mean?

My impression is that it means we should confront authority and not be afraid to tell it like it is. I think of it in terms of admonishing the sinner or instructing the ignorant, but with a chip on my shoulder.

 

[Maynoothman]

I would suggest reading “Harvest of Justice” by the USCCB. Just go to their website usccb.org and search for Harvest of justice. Even though it was written in 1993, it has much relevance to today’s time.

well then you’ll probably think that Im totally ARCHAIC cause I’d go back to Aquinas on the neccesity of giving everyperson what is owed to them as human beings, particualrly distributive justice which talks about the governments responsibility to the common good and legal justice with the obligation of the individuals. Commutative justice seems to be slightly less applicable.

For me contemporary social justice has at its roots the teachings of Aquinas and Aristotle.

 

[vern_humphrey]

In my diocese, The oldest in the country,my experience has led me to associate “social justice” with extreme left wing political ideals and parties.I’ve read Pope Leo XIII, I’ve read the Catechism.The problem is that in my locality social justice activities are almost exclusivly defined and use the terminology of communists or socialists.I find this borrowing of language from the political movements that have so ravaged the Church to be not only offensive but maybe heretical.I would appreciate some (name removed by moderator)ut that would help me be more understanding of Church teaching and allow me to understand the genesis of the leftist usurpation of what used to be corporal works of mercy.

The difference is fairly simple; Charity is carrying out the Corporal Works of Mercy – feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, and so on.

Social Justice is arrainging society so far** fewer** people need to be fed, clothed and housed by others.

The Parable of the Sunken Ship

A ship sank in the middle of the ocean. The survivors floated under the blazing sun in the life rafts, without food and water. Then a plane flew over and dropped food, water, chapstick and sun block.

A few days later, another plane flew over and dropped more food, water, chapstick and sun block. And another a few days later. And so it went, week after week, month after month – a drop of food, water, chapstick and sun block every few days.

And finally one of the survivors said, “I don’t want to seem ungrateful, and I really appreciate all this food, water, chapstick and sun block, but don’t you think it would be cheaper if they’d just take us ashore, and we could find our own food, water, chapstick and sun block?”

Dropping food, water, sun block and chapstick is charity. Bringing the survivors ashore is Social Justice.

Now under that definition, can someone name for me a real Social Justice program?

 

[KathleenElsie]

justpeace.org/encourdistributism.htm

Try this it puts social justice into things we can all do.