Re: Educator addressing a "Transgendered" student

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DignumEtJustum said:
I hardly think an article from “Everyday Feminism,” which has another article titled What Kristen Stewart Taught Me About Internalized Misogyny, is going to be taken with much seriousness around here.
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Maybe but worth a try
 
Rau said:
The person with a gender dysphoria or similar is not delusional about their physical self. They fully appreciate the physical realities. It is internally that they experience the sense of a sex that does not match that visible physical reality. The origins of that internal self-perception are not understood. It too may be an outcome of something that does have a reality - though at present we know not what.
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How is that significantly different from a mental illness though?
 
ConfusedLucy said:
Are we doing the right thing by going along with it? Especially with those whose physical traits mean they will never, even after treatment, pass as men/women?
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I assume you are referring to surgery? I don’t know what is the right course of action. Certainly such extreme measures ought only be considered in extreme cases.
 
AdamPeter said:
How is that significantly different from a mental illness though?
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I don’t know that it is. But it is not necessarily delusional. If I declare I am Napoleon Bonaparte, that is delusional. But it may be that if a person (Man) has a self-perception that he is female, could this be an outcome of something gone wrong in their biological development?

What is the upshot of classifying something as a mental illness if there is no treatment for the mind/brain? The hormones and surgery are not treating bodily defect - they are seen as a means to resolve a conflict. Hopefully something better can be found.
 
NM505StKate said:
Found this article via Facebook. It helps.

everydayfeminism.com/2015/12/they-pronouns-cis-privilege/
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People are only human, we’ve pretty much all grown up with he/him for people we perceive as male and she/her for those we perceive as female, we can try our best to be polite and respect peoples wishes but even the best of us would slip up. We aren’t mind readers, I personally don’t have a problem with the idea of feeling male or female on the inside myself, but we use our senses to perceive the world and if someone looks like a man/woman then that’s how we instinctively perceive them, it’s not because we want to dehumanize them.
 
ConfusedLucy said:
People are only human, we’ve pretty much all grown up with he/him for people we perceive as male and she/her for those we perceive as female, we can try our best to be polite and respect peoples wishes but even the best of us would slip up. We aren’t mind readers, I personally don’t have a problem with the idea of feeling male or female on the inside myself, but we use our senses to perceive the world and if someone looks like a man/woman then that’s how we instinctively perceive them, it’s not because we want to dehumanize them.
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True you don’t want to dehumanize them but part of owning up to privilege is doing your best to avoid classify people. Yes we have grown up with a binary view and that is what makes it hard when someone is non-binary or trans. It breaks up the perceived notions and might show that things are not black and white.
 
NM505StKate said:
…might show that things are not black and white.
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That depends on what “things” means. Eye colour varies widely. Sex comes in 2 varieties (male and female) other than in exceptional cases (where something has gone amiss) . The “experience” that people have of “gender” or sexuality may indeed be quite varied.
 
NM505StKate said:
True you don’t want to dehumanize them but part of owning up to privilege is doing your best to avoid classify people. Yes we have grown up with a binary view and that is what makes it hard when someone is non-binary or trans. It breaks up the perceived notions and might show that things are not black and white.
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I think sometimes the male privilege can be just as bad when arguing over these issues. There are times where it’s entirely appropriate to classify someone by their unchangeable biological sex, ie when a baby is born, sometimes in A&E etc.

Calling a student by whatever pronoun doesn’t do any harm though but the student needs to understand that people will struggle and slip up and it doesn’t make them bad people.
 
AdamPeter said:
I would go with it. If the student wanted to be called something like Carl the Cookie Monster, I’d stop short of that. But I’d address the student by whatever name they preferred.

I’d draw the line at using weird pronouns or forcing the class to do that.

That said, I do wonder if a mentally ill person asked you to indulge in their fantasy, would you go along with it? Because that’s what this is.
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More is at stake, actually. Sexual confusion is Satan’s work against family, and that’s work against mankind and obviously against God.

As for liberals, unfortunately while they profess to only want tolerance for everybody, the sad truth is they simply seek destruction and confusion, being ready to pick up any cause that will be offensive to people who try to follow God, precisely and if only to cause that offence. And they don’t just want tolerance, obviously, they want to force us to positively affirm their ideas. Having to appear to be fine with gender ideology would already be an extreme sacrifice and one forced by duress — because would we lose our jobs for that? So we keep silent. 😦

But this doesn’t necessarily mean we should refuse and lose our jobs and relegate ourselves to the underground. Ain’t as simple as that either.

Using a name consistent with the ‘preferred gender’ would be less disagreeable if the student’s or the administration’s demands stopped at that and were framed in such a way as to only avoid displeasing the student, not at the same time to affirm 50 years’ worth of liberal-left indoctrination.
ConfusedLucy said:
Calling a student by whatever pronoun doesn’t do any harm though but the student needs to understand that people will struggle and slip up and it doesn’t make them bad people.
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Silly custom pronouns do harm to language. And at the end of the day suggesting there even exists some such thing as elective gender or unlimited range of identity options (a while ago a family father decided he wanted to live as a female child with another couple — not identifying as an adult at the moment, you see) is already more than harmful enough.
 
For an otherwise normal functioning adult to identify as a child is delusional in the same way as identifying as napoleon Bonaparte is delusional.
 
To me the delusion is that they expect everyone to pretend they are a man or woman because it’s how they “feel”. No one should be expecting the world to revolve around them.
 
ConfusedLucy said:
To me the delusion is that they expect everyone to pretend they are a man or woman because it’s how they “feel”. No one should be expecting the world to revolve around them.
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That may be “unrealistic”, but not delusional.
 
anrmenchaca47 said:
Quick question. How can I as an educator respond to a directive that asks that we address a female student, who identifies as male, with a masculine name?

By adhereing to these directives am I deliberately going against church teaching? (i.e. CCC)

Please advise.
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I use the name that’s on the attendance sheet. Since I’m a guest teacher, I usually don’t learn names anyway. But I do often address the whole class as “boys and girls” and “ladies and gentlemen” and they can figure out which they are that day, if they’re delusional. I don’t care if they think they’re a bat or a giraffe or a postal worker, so long as they’re quiet and do their work and don’t give me any lip.

I refuse to use stupid made up new pronouns like zie and zer-- but it’s easy to avoid ever having to.
 
Rau said:
For an otherwise normal functioning adult to identify as a child is delusional in the same way as identifying as napoleon Bonaparte is delusional.
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And the same way as identifying as a girl when you have male genitalua is delusional.
 
Faithdancer said:
I use the name that’s on the attendance sheet. Since I’m a guest teacher, I usually don’t learn names anyway. But I do often address the whole class as “boys and girls” and “ladies and gentlemen” and they can figure out which they are that day, if they’re delusional. I don’t care if they think they’re a bat or a giraffe or a postal worker, so long as they’re quiet and do their work and don’t give me any lip.

I refuse to use stupid made up new pronouns like zie and zer-- but it’s easy to avoid ever having to.
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You sounds like a “great” sub teacher :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I don’t know many who use zie or zer. Personally I sometimes use shi or hir but normally it is he/him, she/her/, they.
 
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