Re-enchanting the mass

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contramundum:
Masons had a big influence on getting the changes they wanted at Vatican II (Masons often become priests, bishops, etc. in order to do this very thing).
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I really don’t want this thread to degrade into VII conspiracy theory.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
This seer is unapproved by the Church. If she asserts that communion in the hand is out and out “wrong,” then I would question the authenticity anyway. One of the marks of genuine seers and apparitions is submission to the authority of the Church: even apparitions of Our Blessed Mother do not ask the seer to fufill their request if the fufillment of the request is forbidden by the Church through the ordinary. Communion in the hand is permitted by the Church, therefore it cannot be wrong. It cannot be an abuse.
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Do you know where I can get a Vatican list of approved apparitions?
 
I don’t think that Latin is any more reverent than English.
As I remember it, God knows what we want before we ask for it so He should have no trouble with English.
As for returning to ‘dead’ music along with a dead language - e.g. chants, there is nothing more reverent about that than modern music. Reverence is internal not external.
If you’re not getting enough out of the Mass I’d check the mirror before checking the Liturgy - and here’s a little secret:
It’s not about you.
 
Joe Gloor:
I don’t think that Latin is any more reverent than English.
As I remember it, God knows what we want before we ask for it so He should have no trouble with English.
As for returning to ‘dead’ music along with a dead language - e.g. chants, there is nothing more reverent about that than modern music. Reverence is internal not external.
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The use of Latin and chant for me isn’t more reverent but rather it connects one with history and Tradition.
Joe Gloor:
If you’re not getting enough out of the Mass I’d check the mirror before checking the Liturgy - and here’s a little secret:
It’s not about you.
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You are right, the mass is not about me, it is about worshiping and receiving the Lord. That is why I prefer the traditional Liturgy because is seems like less of a performance.
 
Joe Gloor:
I don’t think that Latin is any more reverent than English.
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But it is the offical language of the Roman Catholic Church.
If you’re not getting enough out of the Mass I’d check the mirror before checking the Liturgy - and here’s a little secret:
It’s not about you.
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Nope, it’s all about Our Lord. He deserves something special.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Do you know where I can get a Vatican list of approved apparitions?
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Ya know, there’s actually a website that lists them. I just don’t know what it’s called. I’ll google and post it.
 
Actually, Joe and Arieh, you’re both mistaken. It’s about YOU and the LORD.

If it weren’t for us, God would not need anything at all. Because of us, God’s justice doesn’t simply need something, It requires something: propitiation. Fortunately, for us, His Mercy fills that need in His Son’s Passion, Death, and Resurection, re-presented once again in a bloodless fashion in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
That’s why we need to make certain that there is proper tension kept in the Mass: it can become too horizontal (hugs, kisses, warm-feelings, “Kumbayah”) and it can become too vertical (“God cannot hear you, you’re not speaking Latin!”). The Mass exists to propitiate God for our sins (one reason I want to hear the canon and so do not like the TLM). It is for his honor and glory (which I why I don’t like burlap banners and "Eagles’ Wings).
 
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JKirkLVNV:
The Mass exists to propitiate God for our sins (one reason I want to hear the canon and so do not like the TLM). It is for his honor and glory (which I why I don’t like burlap banners and "Eagles’ Wings).
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You are very wise!
And thanks for the list if you can find it. AGAIN at my hubby’s RCIA class, a card with a website linking to Medjugore was handed out.
Rrrrrrrrrrr.
These Deacons running this need a clue.
 
Sorry for being too succinct.
The Mass is not about how it makes you feel.
You don’t think that burlap banners and “On Eagles Wings” honors and glorifies the Lord?
Why not?
 
Joe Gloor:
You don’t think that burlap banners and “On Eagles Wings” honors and glorifies the Lord?
Why not?
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Tacky never glorifies the Lord.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Tacky never glorifies the Lord.
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That’s your opinion.
I think that even tackiness, if intended to glorify God, does glorify Him.
I also think that Handel’s “Messiah” would be a something an angel choir would scrape off of it’s collective shoe with a stick.
 
Joe Gloor:
Sorry for being too succinct.
The Mass is not about how it makes you feel.
You don’t think that burlap banners and “On Eagles Wings” honors and glorifies the Lord?
Why not?
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No, because they’re burlap and because of the tune (the words are fine, they’re right out of the bible) which your average Catholic cannot sing and which is banal and saccharine anyway.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
No, because they’re burlap and because of the tune (the words are fine, they’re right out of the bible) which your average Catholic cannot sing and which is banal and saccharine anyway.
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Let me hear your song before you run down another’s.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
You are very wise!
And thanks for the list if you can find it. AGAIN at my hubby’s RCIA class, a card with a website linking to Medjugore was handed out.
Rrrrrrrrrrr.
These Deacons running this need a clue.
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😦 Our pastor, an orthodox man, is enamored of Medjugore. Come and visit us, Netmil(name removed by moderator), you can buy a rosary blessed by our sweet Lady Herself.:rolleyes:
 
Joe Gloor:
Let me hear your song before you run down another’s.
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Sorry, what do you mean, “my song?” I haven’t written one. I can tell you some songs I do think appropriate if you like. Look, I said the tune was bad, it could be re-set to another tune, in fact I’m fairly sure it has been.
 
Joe Gloor:
I don’t think that Latin is any more reverent than English.
As I remember it, God knows what we want before we ask for it so He should have no trouble with English.
As for returning to ‘dead’ music along with a dead language - e.g. chants, there is nothing more reverent about that than modern music. Reverence is internal not external.
If you’re not getting enough out of the Mass I’d check the mirror before checking the Liturgy - and here’s a little secret:
It’s not about you.
Click to expand...
If you really mean what you wrote, than you cannot possibly have a problem with the Mass being said in Latin and using Gregorian Chant or Plainchant. Afer all, it’s not about you is it? 🙂
 
Joe Gloor:
That’s your opinion.
I think that even tackiness, if intended to glorify God, does glorify Him.
I also think that Handel’s “Messiah” would be a something an angel choir would scrape off of it’s collective shoe with a stick.
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So that picture of Our Blessed Mother that caused such a stir in New York a few years ago, the one made out of elephant’s dung…that glorified Our Lady?
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Originally Posted by Joe Gloor
You don’t think that burlap banners and “On Eagles Wings” honors and glorifies the Lord?
Why not?
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Tacky never glorifies the Lord.
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I guess this is why I prefer a mass that is the result of centuries of meditation, contemplation, and Tradition as opposed to a contemporary mass that seems its main goal is to entertain. (BTW, I am not a TLM, Latin only traditionalist–when I say “contemporary mass” I am talking more of the evangelical-clone masses)

When contemporary elements are inserted into the mass some people think they are too innovative, some like them, and others feel they are “so five years ago”. It seems too subjective.
 
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