It seems to me that having individuals starting up public prayers after mass is a recipe for confusion. I agree that this should not be allowed. If people want to stay behind after mass and say the prayers privately then of course there is no problem.
Great idea. The Leonine prayers were originally established to protect the sovereignty of the Vatican. With this crisis passed Pius XI changed the intention to the peace and religious freedom of Russian Catholics.
Yeah but, posts like these really lead me to believe that people here just take people for moronically stupid. Really. It was done for, oh, something like eighty years and it was no problem, nobody was “confused” by it; it probably was a bit different when first introduced, sure, but nobody had a heart attack. I can just see images of what you might be thinking, people frenetically running around the nave after mass screaming, “OH NO I AM SO CONFUSED MY POOR BRAIN CAN’T TAKE IT!”
You are a funny fellow. For those 80 years the prayers after mass were commanded by the Pope. Can’t you see that this is entirely different to some random guy in the congregation starting a public prayer without the permission of the priest or the bishop. And please don’t think that I regard you as being moronically stupid.
Well actually no I don’t think you do have respect.
No I don’t take the average people for imbeciles. I was addressing you and as you correctly pointed out, at the time I had no thought that I was addressing an imbecile.
This is the trads problem as I said in my previous post. You could project the trad mentality into any generation of the church and he would find evil to rail at. I am as conservative as they come. I attend an EF mass where I only receive communion on the tongue kneeling. But I can also recognise the trad mentality which is prevalent in camps such as the SSPX which see evil under every rock with the smoke of Satan billowing out of the windows of the Vatican. Lighten up guys. Try and smell the roses for a change. As the book of Ecclesiastes says “There is a time for war and a time for peace”. The time for war will come soon enough. Let’s enjoy some peace for the few fleeting years we have left before the horrors of the world’s aggression turns upon again us as it was when the Leonine prayers were introduced. Young trad, you need to do some research. The purpose of the Leonine prayers are specifically to combat secular oppression against the church. They are not there for every kind of evil we see in the church.
I’ve never heard the long version of the prayer as part of the Leonine prayers after the Low Mass. I assume you’re talking about this long version.
No, my intention was that the bishops of the US implement this themselves, if they so wish. It is my own idea, but I am not advocating that laypeople start a Church-wide tradition in the US. That would be at the pleasure of the bishop(s). I never meant to do it as some grassroots thing. Granted, you can’t really prevent someone from praying prayers after mass, but my intention was that it would be a US-wide thing, and not started by me, but by the bishops themselves.
The popularity of the Leonine prayers after low Mass was due to the fact that it was practically the only active participation of which the laity was a part. Since the promulgation of Pope Paul VI’s missal, the laity have a much more active part in the celebration of Mass. The confusion comes in when “the Mass is ended” yet things continue rolling along. Sure, it wouldn’t take too much to explain the reason for the prayers but then it also needs to be explained that you are free to leave without participating. The situation then becomes confusing with some staying, others leaving and general distraction that would ensue. Better to place any petitions during the intentions of Mass (which is the communal celebration of the faithful) than create a new form of the celebration of Mass.
FYI, the kingdom of Italy under the House of Savoy absorbed the Papal States. Factually, the prayers didn’t work.
Either my original reply to this was deleted accidentally in editing by myself (dunno how, but it could happen), OR it was deleted by a Mod. If it was deleted by a Mod, please, at least give me an infraction and the reasoning, or else leave the post up. It’s poor leadership to correct without the person breaking the rules knowing they’re breaking the rules and why. I wrote my post specifically within what I understand the rules to be. If in fact I broke them, and it was not deemed infraction worthy, but near enough to be removed, how on earth can I grow in membership here in a positive manner?
Doesn’t it make sense to verify that your post is missing due to mod-attack before having a rant?
My understanding was the prayer was for the defence of the Holy See and that this was guaranteed by the Lateran treaty of 1929. The Pope obviously regarded this as a success otherwise he would not have sequestered a failed prayer to the cause of the persecuted in Russia.
With all due respect, you don’t think abortion and the new mandate from the government about Catholic Institutions being required to pay for birth control are a secular attack against the Church?
Considering I did not delete it to my recollection, and that I provided the possibility of that I somehow could have (though I have no idea how), it seems more likely given the content of the thread and the reply I originally posted it was deleted by another party. I further addressed this possibility by frequent use of the word “if”.
It was for the temporal defence of the Holy See which included the Papal States. Make no mistake about it, the Holy See lost on that one. The treaty of 1929 just made it acceptable to both sides.
I found this which even Trad-extremist Cekada admits the Leonine prayer issue is a furfy.
Here is Article 26 to show that Cekada albeit wrong on many things is correct on this.
It’s nice that you have your own opinion but there is no question that the Vatican has ruled that the matter was settled.
How about PMing the mods and asking nicely whether your post had been deleted and if they could be so pleased as to provide an instruction as to why?
I answered that in my first post regarding the issue. A public action deserves at the minimum a private explanation, even if that includes private admonishment. I’m not debating the removal, nor the action, I’m calling into question the lack of generally accepted follow on action in such a case. Within the system I use to save/edit posts I’ve made, I always copy and paste the edit into the file. I have no such edit notation in my file for the original post which is now gone. I am meticulous on this, though I admitted I could have edited and not done this in that instance, also somehow accidentally deleting the post unknowingly. I do not, however, believe that to be the case. Even more, I made sure to really weigh what I wrote in terms of how similar topics have been handled by other moderators. This leads me to believe that perhaps the moderator’s style for this forum is different from other moderators, but it has been my experience to receive a note about why an action was taken by other moderators, when other moderators took action. I reserve my opinion on those cases to myself, out of respect for the spirit of the authority which took said action.
Jon,