re: islamic claim to the temple mount

[Americanrevert]

lol and not all statistics state that it is because of “baby booms” lol

 

[dzheremi]

**

okies, now what I looked at was what you looked at…what I took and posted was one that was already calculated and I took it from this link and if you look at the bottom you can click to see where he got his calculations from(the same page we looked at )…also you can do your own calculations but all the links they provide

islamicweb.com/begin/population.htm**

OK, so in other words you DID NOT take it from the CIA Factbook. Be honest, please.

And I can’t take that link with its pre-calculated tables seriously. It claims to be based on the CIA Factbook’s figures, yet it lists the percentage of Muslims in the United States as 3.75%, compared to the figure of 0.6% actually given by the CIA Factbook. What is the difference between 3.75% and 0.6% in this case? Only about 9.6 million people! (11,393.424 versus 1,822,947 out of a total population given on the CIA World Factbook site as 303,824,640).

If that site can’t get a correct figure for the number of Muslims living in the United States (something that is of great interest to those who love to tell us of Islam’s great gains in the west), then why should I believe any of the rest of its “facts” and figures? Try to pick a site that doesn’t lie for its own purposes next time.

also this : islamicweb.com/begin/results.htm

 

[Lev23]

**
Hello,

First of all, the Jews WERE** the chosen people. \

Thus what is said in the Bible about the land of Palestine is blatantly obvious a disregard for truth when history proves otherwise.

americanrevert

What a way to begin and end a post, both ideas are contrary to the bible. By the way, in the NT, Matthew writes that even Heaven called the land “Israel”.

 

[Lev23]

**Hello Deborahaz

Therefore I say unto you (Jews), The Kingdom of God shall be taken away from you (Jews), and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 21: 45 1 **

americanrevert

For your information, the first church inside and outside of Israel were all Jews, so you can stop misusing that scripture verse to falsely show that the Jews are no longer chosen.

To school you a little more, during this church age, or Grace, the Gentiles who are in the church who were called “not my people” are intended to “provoke Israel to jealousy” by the means of the message, “you are my people”.

**Hosea 2:23
I will plant her for myself in the land;
I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one. ’
I will say to those called 'Not my people, ’ 'You are my people
and they will say, ‘You are my God.’ "

Romans 11:11-13
Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!
I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry.**

 

[Lev23]

i have to admit that i am still a little confused about the history of the middle east and why there are so many problems between israel and the surrounding arab countries. in the old testament, israel is the promised land given to the hebrew people. the city of jerusalem is mentioned many times in the old and new testament. why do the muslims insist that this land is theirs and the jewish people do not belong there? if this is posted in the wrong section of the forum, can someone please move it to the appropriate section. thanks.

Do not be confused, biblically, Islam has absolutely NO claim to the Temple Mount.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

the persians did not conquer the holy land until shortly after the 7th century.
the roman empire ended the middle of the 5th century,

New Rome only fell in 1454. Others parts later.

so who was occupying the holy land before the persian conquered it?

The Romans.

i am glad that my facts were correct. since september 11, 2001, i have tried to educate myself about the middle east and the history of israel since world war II.

What about before WWI?

when i look back at the time i lived in spain, i had a very innocent concept of islam. i was studying world religions in college, so i had some basic knowledge of islam, judaism and christianity. at the time, i had no negative view of islam like i do now. that goes to show you how the terrorism that has occurred around the world (the laast 30 years) has influenced my perception of islam, especially the past 8 years. when i was in spain in 1972-1973, i probably saw islam as a peaceful religion and had a love for all 3 religions and knew that they were related through abraham. i am sure i viewed islam as mysterious, but i did admire the architecture that i saw in spain and i knew there was an islamic influence on the spanish music and language as well, perhaps even some of the literature.
but it had sprung from a culture that i was not familiar with. i wish i could still view islam as i did from the days i was in college, but i cannot anymore.

i don’t understand your last sentence, do i want to give up the church of the resurrection . . . . .? what does that mean?

Just trying to make a comparison. It’s a little hard, because, for instance I don’t know if you believe Rome is more sacred than Jerusalem.

i also do not know of the myth of the desert blooming. so i might disagree on a few points that you made.

I’ll have to dig out the article (peer reviewed) in that case.

 

[Lev23]

it is said that the temple mount was being used as a garbage dump when they built their holy mosques there. how do we really know that? i feel they probably wanted to make their claim in jerusalem for their religion and the best place to do it was where the second temple stood.

i don’t understand why the muslims claim that the second temple did not occupy the temple mount and why they are so against israel existing.

I know a man who visited the old city of Jerusalem in 1965, then under Jordanian rule. He stated the “wailing wall” was closed off as a dank alleyway and had odors all around like the smell of a latrine. Of course, no Jews were allowed there to pray.

they did nothing to develop the land that is now israel, but once israel became a state and developed and had resources, the neighboring countries seem jealous.

I wouldn’t go as far they did nothing to develop the land at all, but the land did not respond to their hand like it did when Jews starting pouring back into the land.

**Ezekiel 36:8-12
" 'But you, O mountains of Israel, will produce branches and fruit for my people Israel, for they will soon come home. I am concerned for you and will look on you with favor; you will be plowed and sown, and I will multiply the number of people upon you, even the whole house of Israel. The towns will be inhabited and the ruins rebuilt. I will increase the number of men and animals upon you, and they will be fruitful and become numerous. I will settle people on you as in the past and will make you prosper more than before. Then you will know that I am the LORD. I will cause people, my people Israel, to walk upon you. They will possess you, and you will be their inheritance; you will never again deprive them of their children. **

 

[Isa_Almisry]

**
Hello,

First of all, the Jews WERE** the chosen people. They went astray every turn they took practically and that is why a need for more messages to be sent. There were many things that the Jews have done, like kill prophets in the past etc. that made their “chosen” be taken from them. Til this day, you still find many of them not abiding by their own books. The land was there, the temple was there, the fall of Rome was there, the city of Jerusalem is still there…Palestine is still a blessed city. Even Allah says in the Quran that it is (related in the story of Mosa alayhi wa salaam).

Now, the problem arises in Palestine due to the fact that what was once theirs and taken(even though history states otherwise), they want it back no matter what cost. It all involved USA and Europe. Treaties documents, promises etc. (without any consideration of those who lived there~on purpose!!) 1948 came round and then the people that were there, are now considered like dogs and to be treated like dogs. The Zionists are involved and they are stronger than the religious jews that protest against them. These Zionists are as well considered Jewish by religion…although not abiding by what their prophet was sent with.

The Jews disbelieved and are no longer following the religion of the believers among the Children of Israel who followed and supported Moosa and ‘Eesaa (peace be upon them).

We Muslims have more right to it than they, because land does not belong to the people who lived there first, but to those who establish the laws of Allah therein. Allah created the land, and He created people to worship Allah in the land and to establish therein the religion, laws and rulings of Allah. Allah says “… Verily, the earth is Allah’s. He gives it as a heritage to whom He wills of His slaves; and the (blessed) end is for the Muttaqoon (the pious).” al-A’raaf 7:128

“History tells us that the first people to settle in Palestine were the Canaanites, six thousand years BCE. They were an Arab tribe who came to Palestine from the Arabian Peninsula, and after their arrival, Palestine was named after them (i.e., Canaan).”
It was names Palestine after the Philistines (the name is the same in Arabic btw) who were not Semitic, but Indo-Europeans, who came after the Hebrews.

“As for the Jews, the first time they entered Palestine was approximately six hundred years after Ibraheem had entered the land, i.e., they entered it approximately 1400 years BCE. *So the Canaanites entered Palestine and lived there approximately 4500 years before the Jews.” *

The Bible says the Canaanites were there first. It also says that with their temple prostitution, human sacrifice, killing children, etc. that God said He would clean the land of them.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

This matter concerning the false Jewish claim to the Haram al-Sharif in Jerusalem was recently discussed on another thread.

Kindly refer to these three posts: 1 → 2 → 3

Interesting how you don’t post the link to the refutations on the same thread.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

so you are saying that the whole earth, not just israel belongs to Allah and therefore, the whole earth should follow islam?

why are there so many who have converted from islam to christianity who say bad things about islam?

maybe the muslims need to learn the meaning of the word “share”.

there is so much land in the middle east and israel only wants a small part of it.

The tip of the icebert is also small.

And its not a question of how much land is in the Middle East, but how much in Palestine.

why aren’t the palestinians welcome into any of the other muslim countries who surely have room for them?

And the Christian Palestinians go where?

the holy land should be shared by jews, christians and muslims.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

**Hello Deborahaz

Therefore I say unto you (Jews), The Kingdom of God shall be taken away from you (Jews), and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 21: 45 1 **

Actually I went to the CIA Factbook they have on their site and I it was astonishing…did you know that they have it recorded as Islam is the fastest growing religion now. It has raised 235% and Christianity just 47%. It is still considered to be the second largest religion but that is only because they combined the Protestant and the Catholic religions both into the Christian category. But the rate of its speed is amazin!
So you accept the CIA as a reliable authority. That’s nice to know. They have LOTS to say about Muslims.

Its not too hard to grow when you have dozens of nations willing to use the sword, and families average how many kids now? Didn’t you say you had 7?

Deborah, they don’t want a part of it. See, if you also study some of the history of the Jews, they want it all…and they want to expand it even to the area of Saudia. There are greedy zionists now that are makin the problems. Also, Muslims, Christians and Jews DID live together for a long time until all the uprisings and ILLEGAL OCCUPATIONS started.

 

[ralphinal]

In terms of American Real Estate, they are squatters. They have no legal claim to the land except for the fact that they have sat there for so long. Eventually, this will pose a major crisis.

Kannichen, you are exactly right about the modernization of the Middle East being the problem. I would point out that they are faced with doing it in a few decades when we did it over the course of centuries.

 

[LDNCatholic]

In terms of American Real Estate, they are squatters. They have no legal claim to the land except for the fact that they have sat there for so long. Eventually, this will pose a major crisis.

Good thing the Levant is not U.S soil. Who does have rightful claim to the land?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

In terms of American Real Estate, they are squatters. They have no legal claim to the land except for the fact that they have sat there for so long. Eventually, this will pose a major crisis…

Who are “they?”

 

[ralphinal]

Good thing the Levant is not U.S soil. Who does have rightful claim to the land?

The indiginous peoples of the area.

 

[ralphinal]

Who are “they?”

The Muslims

 

[hamba2han]

The Muslims

Ahhh… yes, Muslim “squatters” in Palestine should never forget that the “Judaeo-Christian God” is the greatest real-estate agent there is in the entire Universe.

 

[LDNCatholic]

The indiginous peoples of the area.

The Canaanites? Don’t think they’re about anymore.

Speaking of the rights of the indiginous people to own land, are you Cherokee or Muskogee?

And in response to you saying its Muslims vs indiginous people as to who should own the land, Islam is a religion, not an ethnic group and many, if not all the Palestinian Muslims in the area are indeed indiginous.

 

[ralphinal]

Actually, Cherokee

 

[LDNCatholic]

Actually, Cherokee

Well didn’t that just backfire on me? Still. Most of the people called Israelis nowadays are of European descent (correct me if I’m wrong). Most of the Palestinians in the area are ethnically Middle Eastern, who come from that area.