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CilladeRoma
Guest
The “common good” can be a very slippery slope to socialism.
I would rather not take the chance.
I would rather not take the chance.
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Usagi
Guest
But if you attended a Mass (or any other gathering) where another attendee later turned up symptomatic, wouldn’t you want them to have a way to contact everyone?
The information is kept on file at the parish (and mine, for one, already puts out a directory), not handed over to a government agency unless something goes wrong.
The information is kept on file at the parish (and mine, for one, already puts out a directory), not handed over to a government agency unless something goes wrong.
It wouldn’t matter, I wouldn’t be there in the first place. I can well foresee that I may not be able to go to Mass for several more months. It’s not so much me. I’m big, robust, excellent resistance, take good care of myself, almost obsessive with my nutrition, and I am a very clean person (I shave my head — no hair for CV to adhere to!). I could probably survive CV quite nicely. But I cannot chance bringing CV back home to my parents. They are already terrified and they think this is the end of the human race — they think it’s floating around out in the air and will just keep infecting everyone until we’re all gone. I keep all necessary retail excursions to the bare minimum, and spend absolutely as little time inside closed spaces with other people as humanly possible.
Churches and schools are two of the least “socially-distanceable” places imaginable. In one of them, you are in close proximity to other people who are breathing, in a closed space, for an hour. In the other, the children are in close proximity for six hours, most of the time sitting still at desks and tables. Even an N95 mask still lets in five percent of particles. I don’t think they’ll be able to open schools back up this fall. Time will tell.
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Jeanne_S
Guest
I just received a notice from our pastor r e upcoming Masses. Those 65 and older or with underlying condions are encouraged to stay home.
There will be 6 masses ,six days a week with no more than 10 people.
This includes the priests,deacon,cantor,reader.So now we are down to only 6 parishioners per Mass.
needless to say my husband and I won’t be attending any time soon.Im 67 and he’s 72.Were both healthy but still…So weird all of this:disappointed:
There will be 6 masses ,six days a week with no more than 10 people.
This includes the priests,deacon,cantor,reader.So now we are down to only 6 parishioners per Mass.
needless to say my husband and I won’t be attending any time soon.Im 67 and he’s 72.Were both healthy but still…So weird all of this:disappointed:
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Emeraldlady
New member
It doesn’t sound like you are outright forbidden to go. ‘Encouraged to stay home’, leaves it open for you to go.I just received a notice from our pastor r e upcoming Masses. Those 65 and older or with underlying condions are encouraged to stay home.
There will be 6 masses ,six days a week with no more than 10 people.
This includes the priests,deacon,cantor,reader.So now we are down to only 6 parishioners per Mass.
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PetraG
Guest
I know what @Jeanne_S means, though. You know if you got really sick, whoever gave it to you would never forgive themselves. You have to allow people who are making huge sacrifices all around you in order to protect you to actually protect you. People are making huge sacrifices, and they’ll be doing it until the serious illnesses and the deaths let up. Those of us most likely to get seriously ill or to die have our part to do, too, and that is to keep ourselves from getting sick. That’s what we have to do to get things really up and running again, even if we don’t fear for ourselves.
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phil19034
Guest
Archbishop Sample is a good bishop, and his plans seem to be very well thought out.
I pray it works and that other bishops located in major cities are paying attention to Archbishop Sample.
I pray it works and that other bishops located in major cities are paying attention to Archbishop Sample.
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phil19034
Guest
The document says that parishes are discouraged from limiting their list to parish members.
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otjm
Guest
If that were the case, we would not be able to start public Masses for at least a year and a half, if not two or more.
any thought that this is going to go away this summer, or next fall, winter or spring are not paying muh attention to the general news (and I realize that some news stations no longer carry news; only editorial matter).
It normally takes about 5 years before a vaccine is available to (essentially) all. Because there are some new approaches, that may, or may not be cut down, but at this point it appears a pipe dream that we will have an effective vaccine widely available in much less than 18 months.
Part of the problem is that it appears that people may be infected with the virus, but have no symptoms at the point where they can transmit the virus. If that is in fact true, then having a sign-up list will allow the parish to tell those at a specific Mass that an individual was there, and subsequently developed symptoms, and that the rest may have been exposed.
Having had two family members, plus the cousin of one of my son-in-laws come down with the virus, I suspect there is truth in the ability to transmit before one has symptoms.
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otjm
Guest
I understand where you are going with this, and I am not the least in favor of tracking apps on cell phones (for a starter).
And it is no something you said, but I am likewise fed up beyond expression with the number of people who are out demanding their “rights”. My understanding the local Costco stores will nbot be allowing anyone in who does not have a mask, and there were an allged 600 +/- people objecting that the store had no right to require this (and by implication, the state ahd no right.
They need to get off their high horses and understand that with every “right” comes the corollary - responsibility. They have a responsibility to not endanger me. I have a right to not be endangered by their lame-brained excuse for knowledge of Constitutional law. Their form of solipsism is coming to a crescendo, and sadly, it is going to cost others some serious consequences.
Someone does not want to be on a list as having attended Mass? No problem. Stay home, someone else who has consideration of their fellow parishioners can attend in their place.
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CilladeRoma
Guest
This is totally unfair. I can object to government overreach and still have consideration for others.
The government has no right to ask Churches to provide them with lists of attendees, for any reason.
It is a very slippery slope, and I honestly cannot understand why so many people have no problem with it.
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pnewton
Guest
We are opening with 60-80 people, no sign up, but we quit when room is gone. Every other pew is taped off and all are seated by ushers. One person/family on each end of the pew with no one in the middle. This was a test, starting around 47:00.
It is better than the grocery store.
It is better than the grocery store.
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If all you say is true, then at some point, “the powers that be” may have to say something likeHomeschoolDad:
If that were the case, we would not be able to start public Masses for at least a year and a half, if not two or more.
any thought that this is going to go away this summer, or next fall, winter or spring are not paying muh attention to the general news (and I realize that some news stations no longer carry news; only editorial matter).
It normally takes about 5 years before a vaccine is available to (essentially) all. Because there are some new approaches, that may, or may not be cut down, but at this point it appears a pipe dream that we will have an effective vaccine widely available in much less than 18 months.
“We have no choice but to open everything back up — workplaces, stores, schools, churches, and so on —and you will have the option of either getting back out into society, and risk getting CV, or you can self-quarantine, and possibly lose your job if you have a job that cannot be done from home, homeschool your children, keep wearing a mask or respirator if you have to go somewhere, use curbside pickup for essentials such as groceries and restaurant food, and keep the elderly and high-risk inside where it’s safe. That will have to be everyone’s individual choice, but for those who want to risk it, life will return to normal. If you do choose to enter back into active society, don’t bother with a mask — what’s the point? You will probably get the virus. In all likelihood you will survive. You’ll be sick for a week or two, then you will get better. Some will die. But eventually, we will reach a point of herd immunity, and then the crisis will end.”
This is similar to what Sweden did, and I think it will be interesting to look at the statistics, when all is said and done, and see if their approach was correct.
In the meantime, I am practicing isolation, but that is easy for me to sit back and say, because my income doesn’t depend upon working, we homeschool, and social life isn’t a priority for us.
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Dave27360
Guest
There are several things from the article which has already been mentioned.
General Principles
• Mass attendance will be limited in accord with government directives
• Social distancing must be practiced at all times within churches (minimum of six feet apart
except members of the same household).
• A general dispensation from the Sunday Mass obligation will remain in place.
• Anyone attending Mass does so at their own risk. Vulnerable, at-risk and otherwise concerned
persons should remain home.
• Anyone who has even the slightest symptoms or feelings of sickness must remain home.
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• Livestreaming of Masses will continue to be encouraged.
• Restrictions and guidelines here pertain to all Masses, including weddings, funerals, etc.
The Diocese that I live in Charlotte gave the ok for Public Mass to resume.
https://catholicnewsherald.com/90-n...outdoors-as-state-eases-covid-19-restrictions
Our state is doing a 3 Phase Reopening.
Phase 1 is starting tonight at 5PM
Indoor Mass is still limited to 10 People
Outdoor Mass is allowed as long as Worship follows Recommendations to Promote Social Distancing and Reduce Transmission;
General Principles
• Mass attendance will be limited in accord with government directives
• Social distancing must be practiced at all times within churches (minimum of six feet apart
except members of the same household).
• A general dispensation from the Sunday Mass obligation will remain in place.
• Anyone attending Mass does so at their own risk. Vulnerable, at-risk and otherwise concerned
persons should remain home.
• Anyone who has even the slightest symptoms or feelings of sickness must remain home.
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• Livestreaming of Masses will continue to be encouraged.
• Restrictions and guidelines here pertain to all Masses, including weddings, funerals, etc.
The Diocese that I live in Charlotte gave the ok for Public Mass to resume.
https://catholicnewsherald.com/90-n...outdoors-as-state-eases-covid-19-restrictions
Our state is doing a 3 Phase Reopening.
Phase 1 is starting tonight at 5PM
Indoor Mass is still limited to 10 People
Outdoor Mass is allowed as long as Worship follows Recommendations to Promote Social Distancing and Reduce Transmission;
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PetraG
Guest
As far as I know, the Governor did not ask the Archbishop to have a way to trace contacts.
What the Governor has done, however, is to make clear that if we have a bad outbreak, our activities will be scaled back again. I think the Archbishop wants to make sure that his parishes are (a) doing everything they can do to protect the people of God in their care and (b) preventing outbreaks of the kind that will shut us back down by allowing very fast contact tracing in the event someone present turns out to be positive.
Archbishop Sample is very concerned about protecting his flock and his priests, both young and old, both strong and weak, and from dangers both spiritual and physical. He takes this duty very seriously.
Still, I think he understands the nature of the decisions to be made very clearly and would be respectful of another bishop who made different choices. Oregon has been very fortunate in how well the outbreak has been contained so far. The Archbishop would like us to do what we reasonably can to keep it that way.
We don’t need to ever get back to the situation the world had when we didn’t know how the virus was transmitted or how to test for it. When we can test for it and know when we have community transmission going on that is beyond tracing, that’s a whole different situation than what we had in early March, where (as we find now) people were dying of COVID-19 and the coroners couldn’t even test for it themselves, let alone test with a short turn-around for results.
(Treatments are also improving.)
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Usige
Guest
To be fair, if you carefully read both CDC and WHO statements, they say that homemade cloth masks do not have a known efficacy. Depending on the material, construction and how they are worn the reduction (if any) can vary greatly. It is why their statements are recommendations and not requirements. It’s also why the statements almost always have modifiers such as can, might, could versus do, does, will. There have been no studies of how much mask wearing actually impacts the spread.
Even lab test of surgical (not N95) masks only showed I believe a 50-60% reduction for influenza transmission and negligible reduction for rhino viruses. That is for masks made with nonwoven materials worn properly in a lab setting. One can only conclude based on studies that most non medical masks made out of woven cloth will have a lower efficacy (woven materials have large holes in the weave relative to respiratory droplets and viruses). How much lower is not known and it is why the CDC warns that it is not a substitute for social distancing and good hand hygiene and that it can lead to a false sense of safety. It’s one of the primary reasons that people with risk factors are still recommended to self isolate because there is no evidence that mass use of masks will reduce their vulnerability. Maybe there will be at some point, but at this time it is really more of a "we don’t know if it will help, but we’re desperate so it can’t hurt.“
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pnewton
Guest
Then let me quote the CDC.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover.html
How is that for fair? So again I will ask, if it is possible that it makes others safer, why would you not wear one?
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phil19034
Guest
Yes, in stores, it can be difficult to always stay more that 6 feet apart. Sometimes, passing someone in an aisle becomes inevitable. The masks help with when people need to pass each other within close promimity.
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PetraG
Guest
Yes, the evidence shows that a typical mask mostly protects the public (everyone else) from the aerosols from coughing or loud speech. Highly effective masks require a professional fit and careful use informed by training. The others, well, who wants a door that stays locked 60% of the time? It is much better than nothing, but you’re going to bar a door like that if it really needs a lock.
I wish I could find it again, but I found a study that showed how much singing and loud talking do project more aerosol farther than normal speech (as anyone who has learned the hard way about the hazards of sitting in the first row of a live theater performance can attest). Interestingly, certain person tested projected a good deal more than typical; this could be one source of “super-spreaders.” People who constantly touch their faces but don’t wash their hands could be another kind of “super-spreader.” There is thinking that putting masks on them helps keep their hands away from their mouths. With an infection that so often exists with no symptoms, that’s all worth consideration.
I wish I could find it again, but I found a study that showed how much singing and loud talking do project more aerosol farther than normal speech (as anyone who has learned the hard way about the hazards of sitting in the first row of a live theater performance can attest). Interestingly, certain person tested projected a good deal more than typical; this could be one source of “super-spreaders.” People who constantly touch their faces but don’t wash their hands could be another kind of “super-spreader.” There is thinking that putting masks on them helps keep their hands away from their mouths. With an infection that so often exists with no symptoms, that’s all worth consideration.
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phil19034
Guest
The reason to wear the cloth masks in stores is to attempt to prevent spray when/if you cough/sneeze in the store, esp within close proximity to another person.
The cloth mask does not protect the wearer. It protects others from the wearer accidently sneezing coughing or spraying saliva into the air by accident some other way.
The cloth mask does not protect the wearer. It protects others from the wearer accidently sneezing coughing or spraying saliva into the air by accident some other way.
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