Re-scheduled Messiah?

[Daniel_J]

Where, in all of the prophetic parts of the Old Testament can a Jewish person find mention of a “second-coming” for the awaited Messiah ?

dj

 

[Robbinson]

Where, in all of the prophetic parts of the Old Testament can a Jewish person find mention of a “second-coming” for the awaited Messiah ?

dj

In Daniel chapter 9, there is a prophecy of the coming of the messiah - described as “seventy sevens” commencing with the decree of the rebuilding of the Jerusalem. This is why the Jews themselves were expecting the Messiah in Jesus’ time (as that was the appointed time). But, in 9:26 - you will see the "annointed being cut off after “sixty-two” sevens - he will have to return to finish his work.

This is consistent with Isaiah 53 where the Messiah will be a suffering servant, will be “cut off” from the living (die) but return to see his seed (resurrection).

Discussion in the Talmud and in Jewish writings show that the great Jewish thnkers and rabbis through the ages have struggled with these concepts - how could the Messiah be cut off and die, and be a suffering servant, and yet also be a great victor who will reign forever? There is discussion, therefore, in the Talmud about the possibility of two different messiahs - one who suffers and dies, and one who reigns victorious. But the scriptures themselves don’t talk about 2 messiahs, but an (one) annointed one. This is Jesus Christ. The revelation is made more expressly and clear in the New Testament, but it is also contained within the Old Testatment.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[tito]

]What I had found that helped me, DANIEL J, in addition to what Robbinson provided (which is fundamental), is to look at Luke 4:18,19 which is a recapitulation of Issaiah 61. Look at verses 1 and 2. Notice that Jesus only quoted the first half of verse 2 (“to proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD”) and not the second part (" and the day of vengeance of our LORD; to confort all that mourn;"). Jesus came the first time to provide salvation to the world, and He is coming the second time to judge the world and save the remnant of His people Israel. For this look again at Isaiah 11 (compare ch. 11 with 61). The first 3 verses leaves little doubt that the chapter is talking about Messiah and what his reign will bring; but when you get to v11 it reads (KJV) “And it shall come to pass in that day,that the Lord shall set his hand again t h e s e c o n d t i m e to recover the
r e m n a n t of his people,”). Many of these prophecies are interwined within other topics and contexts.This may be of help to a jewish friend you may witness to as far as a christians belief in the 2nd coming of Messiah.

 

[Daniel_J]

Thank-you. I need to study these references.

Many of these prophecies are interwined within other topics and contexts.This may be of help to a jewish friend you may witness to as far as a christians belief in the 2nd coming of Messiah.

My Jewish friends tell me that, “Second-Coming is for the Jews”.

This is in Isaiah 59 verse 20, ** And there shall come a redeemer to Sion, and to them that return from iniquity in Jacob, saith the Lord" **

The reason that I know the above mentioned verse tells of “Second-Coming” is because St. Paul tells me so as he quotes it in Romans 11:25,26.

** For I would not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery, (lest you should be wise in your own conceits), that blindness in part has happened in Israel, until the fullness of the gentiles should come in. and so all in Israel should be saved, as it is written: There shall come out of Sion he that shall deliver, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob **

Although, the “mystery” continues in how the tables are turned onto us by “the redeemer”. What I mean is that the verse actually states that:

1.) The redeemer comes… and

2.) “Jacob” has need of “return” in essence a second coming.

I keep seeing that the Messiah is come, and any need for a “return” is strictly ours in terms of reconciliation, and in an escatloogical sense it is the “remnant” of the Jews that need to make a “second-coming”.

I am thinking that the Messiah’s coming is occurred in an absolute sense because His Presence remains in a much deeper and more profound sense than was 2k years ago, namely Sacramentally as now we can commune. dj

 

[tito]

3rd attempt at answering, having software problems, may need to answer in installments so I do not loose the whole response.
DANIEL J : the Isaiah 61:2 response of JC when He read the Scripture in the synagoge in Nazareth (Luke 4:17-19) : Jesus read only the first half of the verse that addresses His first coming for the salvation of mankind ("To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD) but left out the second half. This second half has two parts to it: the first addresses the judment of the world and the second the salvation of the remnant of Israel that repents, both at the second coming (“and the day of vengeance of our God; to confort all that mourn;”). Therefore His second coming will accomplish both.
Isaiah 59:20, 21. perfectly identifies with the second part above, the redeemer coming to Zion (Israel) unto them that turn (repent) from transgression in Jacob (Israel). These are the remnant on whom Jesus will bestow the H.Spirit.(see Ezekiel 36:26-28 as a similar passage).

 

[tito]

Second installment.
DANIEL J. Now to Romans 11:25,26. The mystery of the blindness of the NATION Israel, (why God chose it this way is a mystery) but the blindness will last untill the fullness of the Gentiles be come in (whenever God decides this time is). “And so all Israel shall be saved”. So why the blindness on the nation? Romans 9:32 answers that: “Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law”. The jewish religious leaders had rejected Messiah’s salvific work in favor of their works system. In other words, they were trying to earn Heaven exclusively on their own efforts! No Grace! So how fared the Gentiles? See v 30: the gentiles had attained to righteuosness by faith (trusting in Jesus). Romans 10:3 tells you what they were trying to do : “going about to establish their ouwn righteousness”,and v 5 “a righteousness that is of the law”. Not trusting Messiah but all pure human effort.

 

[tito]

Third installment.
DANIEL J. It still gets better. The New Covenant was promised to the jews. Jeremiah 31:31-34 tells us that. So then, where do we Gentiles come in? Back to Isaiah 49 Israel (a type of Messiah) the Lord’s Servant, (just as Jesus served the Father) was to be a light to the gentiles: v6b “the preserved of Israel:I will also give thee for a light to the GENTILES, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth”. God has always had the salvation of the gentiles in mind, and even though Israel the NATION failed, a Jew from Bethlehem did not, our Lord and our God, Jesus! Isaiah 55, the great chapter on the offer of free Mercy of God to all, again at no cost to us (v 1&2), says in verses 3,4,5 of the promise of an everlasting covenant with the gentiles (the nations, in Isaiah). We gentiles are saved on the coattails of the New covenant offered to Israel as was God’s plan all along, one final Covenant for all peoples.

 

[tito]

Fouth installment.
DANIEL J. In conclusion, Jesus came the first time as a suffering Servant (see Robbison’s post above and reference to Isaiah 53 ) to save us all from the curse (guilt and penalty) of sin as the Redeemer, and will come a second time to judge, saving all those who put their trust in Him and serving justice on all who reject Him. Israel’s sin was umbelief in the Servant Messiah and that He proved by the many miracles performed. Don’t the Scriptures say that ‘jews required a sign(miracle)’? Your jewish friend is partially right, Messiah is coming to save repentant jews (the remnant) but also repentant gentiles. I pray they read Isaiah 53 and that you are able to be God’s conduit as a sower of the seed of faith or the reaper of a converted soul.