Re-selling Inappropriate video games

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Magicsilence said:
Fitswimmer,

You too are attacking your own straw man. I did not say what you are questioning.

TV and video games are a recent phenomenon. In general they are controlled and produced by the same secular people who have no problem using ABC or having abortions, watching pornography, or lusting over the opposite sex.

In general they glorify violence, sex, lust, and immodesty. I think UndertheRadar poses some honest questions:
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I was responding to this:
Once it goes into your brain, it doesn’t come out again. Are you implying that we may entertain ourselves by watching or controlling characters who sin gravely against God (were they for real) ? Shouldn’t we as Christians be striving for absolute purity?
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The implication here clearly is that once immoral behavior is in the brain it is going to be acted upon which is simply not true at all.

I agree that UndertheRadar makes some excellent points. We should be looking at our entertainment choices to determine what impact they are having on us. However, that does not mean that we can decide for others what impact their choices have on them.

For example-I have never seen any of the current comedy movies or TV shows. I know myself well enough to know that I will assimilate language and humor that isn’t appropriate. I will carry that with me. Other people can go to them, walk out and leave it all there. Since I know I can’t-those movies and TV shows are an occasion of sin for me.
 
Fitswimmer said:
The implication here clearly is that once immoral behavior is in the brain it is going to be acted upon which is simply not true at all.
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Yet, I did not make that (incorrect) implication; you assumed it.

There are many things in my head which have caused distraction from prayer, temptation towards repetition of sin, serious misunderstandings and confusion regarding the faith of God and His Church.

They have not, however, caused me to act on them, despite these other detrimental effects.

My caution ‘once it goes in, it doesn’t come out’ doesn’t therefore imply that human beings definitively act according to what they observe.
 
Sometimes I think, that at least for myself, if I truly understood the evil of sin, I would run from it and would not go near any imitation of it, including video games.
 
Magicsilence said:
Yet, I did not make that (incorrect) implication; you assumed it.

There are many things in my head which have caused distraction from prayer, temptation towards repetition of sin, serious misunderstandings and confusion regarding the faith of God and His Church.

They have not, however, caused me to act on them, despite these other detrimental effects.

My caution ‘once it goes in, it doesn’t come out’ doesn’t therefore imply that human beings definitively act according to what they observe.
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You now say that things in your brain don’t cause you to act on them. So then just because a person sees something immoral and that immoral act goes into their brain it doesn’t mean they will act on them. That’s been my point all along.
 
If some of you say that it is wrong to simulate violence in a video game, would you say that it is wrong to play laser tag or paint ball?
 
UndertheRadar said:
Maybe these games are not sinful for some, but my question is: What good comes from violent, sexual, etc., video games? Why, if you do not act this way in real life, would you wish to act this way in thought that is visualized through these games? Many of them do not have a moral at the end and seem to glorify secular and non-Christian themes.
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Video games put us in positions that we would not normally face. It’s an adventure. Just like a book or a movie. Gamers do not (for the most part) play a game thinking, “Yay, I get to rape, steal, murder, and kill!” We play games to find ourselves in a world that can serve as an escape from the everyday routine and also to reinforce our morals. We see murder in a video game and we know that it’s bad. We stop the murderer. We find ourselves having to make choices that would make St. Thomas Aquinas stop and think. We can then take the lessons we learned and apply them to real life – lessons that we would never have learned otherwise.

Many games focus on defending and protecting the weak, not hurting them. I agree that some games are bad, but there are so many good ones out there.
 
Magicsilence said:
Tell me Caesar, does all this logic apply to pornography. Why / why not?

Oh, and to really throw the cat among the pigeons, what about virtual (cgi) pornography?
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There is no comparrison between video games and pornography. This is the center of my argument:
The real question to ask youself is: Is playing this video game (that contains sinful behavior) tempting me to commit these sins myself?
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Pornography may be one of the sins that you are tempted to commit, not something that possibly tempts you to commit sins.

CGI pornography is no different from regular pornography – intrinsically evil because it profanes the marital embrace. I don’t think I need to say any more about why poirnoghraphy is intrinsically evil, we all know that. If you want to read more about it, follow the CCC link in my signature.
 
Magicsilence said:
TV and video games are a recent phenomenon. In general they are controlled and produced by the same secular people who have no problem using ABC or having abortions, watching pornography, or lusting over the opposite sex.
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Where did you get this crazy assumption from?
Magicsilence said:
In general they glorify violence, sex, lust, and immodesty.
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I disagree. As an experienced gamer, I know that some do, but many don’t. Almost all games have an underlying good triumphs over evil theme.
 
UndertheRadar said:
Just because sin is realistic doesn’t mean it is good. Meditate on the passion and tell me how sin is good.
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I didn’t say sin is good, although it does frequently have good effects. All I said was that it adds realism so that we can relate to our experiances in the game. It helps transpose lessons learned back to real life.
 
You know what really strikes me in these sorts of discussions is that, frequently, the detractors have in mind the worst possible examples, while the supporters have in mind the best possible examples. Not every video game is like Grand Theft Auto. And yet, there are some games that are like Grand Theft Auto (Grand Theft Auto, for example).

Just something to keep in mind as we discuss… 🙂
 
UndertheRadar said:
Sometimes I think, that at least for myself, if I truly understood the evil of sin, I would run from it and would not go near any imitation of it, including video games.
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I think this is the most spiritually honest and poignant post on this thread.
Fitswimmer said:
You now say that things in your brain don’t cause you to act on them. So then just because a person sees something immoral and that immoral act goes into their brain it doesn’t mean they will act on them. That’s been my point all along.
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And I am not arguing the other absolute, merely commenting on the other spiritual malaise that can arise from watching immoral actions (aside from direct mimicry).
Caesar517 said:
There is no comparrison between video games and pornography. This is the center of my argument:
Pornography may be one of the sins that you are tempted to commit, not something that possibly tempts you to commit sins.

CGI pornography is no different from regular pornography – intrinsically evil because it profanes the marital embrace. I don’t think I need to say any more about why poirnoghraphy is intrinsically evil, we all know that. If you want to read more about it, follow the CCC link in my signature.
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Man watches pornography - man more likely to commit adultery
Man plays video game involving severe violence - no consequences? I don’t think so.

If I claimed that controlling a character to have virtual intercourse did not influence me towards sin, would that make it ok?

It’s the same argument you are using with regard to the severe violence found in GTA.
I disagree. As an experienced gamer, I know that some do, but many don’t. Almost all games have an underlying good triumphs over evil theme.
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I’d say most have a ‘our side wins’ theme, but good over evil? Try - Hitman, GTA, Manhunt, Silent Hill, Resident Evil.

Most of the video games with ‘good over evil’ are spin offs from films - spiderman, batman, etc… and plenty are pretty much indifferent to any form of morality - WoW, Ghost Recon, BladeStorm etc…
 
Caesar517 said:
Video games put us in positions that we would not normally face. It’s an adventure. Just like a book or a movie. Gamers do not (for the most part) play a game thinking, “Yay, I get to rape, steal, murder, and kill!” We play games to find ourselves in a world that can serve as an escape from the everyday routine and also to reinforce our morals. We see murder in a video game and we know that it’s bad. We stop the murderer. We find ourselves having to make choices that would make St. Thomas Aquinas stop and think. We can then take the lessons we learned and apply them to real life – lessons that we would never have learned otherwise.

Many games focus on defending and protecting the weak, not hurting them. I agree that some games are bad, but there are so many good ones out there.
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Maybe gamers don’t play a game thinking, “Yay, I get to rape, steal, murder, and kill!” Nevertheless, intention does not erase effect. One cannot go to a hot stove and say that he does not intend to get burned and then touch it without getting burned. The consequences are still there regardless of intention.

I do not buy the fact that we play games to learn lessons. I think this is trying to rationalize the imitation of sin. Using that approach, why can’t I go to a strip club and say that I was just trying to reinforce my morals? Sin is never acceptable, even though good effects may result from them.

I will clarify myself, I am talking about the games (and there are a lot) that do not have morals. I think that it is different when watching a historical war movie that displays violence, because there is something to be gained morally from the lessons of history. But in a lot of games, there is killing for entertainment under the pretenses that it is necessary.
 
Magicsilence said:
I’d say most have a ‘our side wins’ theme, but good over evil? Try - Hitman, GTA, Manhunt, Silent Hill, Resident Evil.
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Isn’t Resident Evil a game where you try to save the world by killing evil monsters?
 
My simple question is: Would you want Jesus to sit down and play the game with you? If not, don’t sell it!!!
 
Magicsilence said:
Man watches pornography - man more likely to commit adultery
Man plays video game involving severe violence - no consequences? I don’t think so.

If I claimed that controlling a character to have virtual intercourse did not influence me towards sin, would that make it ok?

It’s the same argument you are using with regard to the severe violence found in GTA.
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Pornography is intrinsically evil. What makes you think video games are? Just because there could be consequences? I agree that we should exercise caution and discretion while playing video games, just like any other morally neutral activity.
Magicsilence said:
I’d say most have a ‘our side wins’ theme, but good over evil? Try - Hitman, GTA, Manhunt, Silent Hill, Resident Evil.
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Exerpts taken from xbox.com:
Hitman 2: Silent Assassin™ begins in a Sicilian monastery. Agent 47’s attempts to distance himself from his violent past are detoured when he is discovered by local criminal underworld and tricked into returning to his trade. Caught in the middle of a ring of deception, Agent 47 soon discovers that he has been manipulated and the hunter must now watch his back, as he has become the hunted.
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The character sounds like more than a mindless murderer to me, but I’ve never played that particular game.
The biohazard threat has not ended. Just when it seemed that the menace of Resident Evil had been destroyed, along comes a new terror to send shivers down players’ spines. Returning hero Chris Redfield heads to Africa where the latest bioterrorism threat is literally transforming the people and animals of the city into mindless, maddened creatures. Take on the challenge of discovering the truth behind this evil plot. In Resident Evil 5, you will learn to fear the daylight as much as you have feared the shadows before.
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Sounds like you are working for the common good, but again I’ve never played it.

Are you just naming titles that sound bad? :hmmm:
Magicsilence said:
Most of the video games with ‘good over evil’ are spin offs from films - spiderman, batman, etc… and plenty are pretty much indifferent to any form of morality - WoW, Ghost Recon, BladeStorm etc…
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Certainly not. How about Assassin’s Creed, Gears of War, Splinter Cell, Mass Effect, BioShock, Jade Empire, Halo, the Elder Scrolls series…

War games are not merely indifferent to morality. Usually you are fighting terrorists, Nazis, Japanese, or some other dangerous group of people who want to take over the world.

Most video games that are movie spin offs are low-budget projects that don’t produce a decent game anyway.

We can name examples all day, that’s not going to get us anywhere.
 
What kind of consequences is Magic looking for? Somebody murdering, going to a strip club, and stealing cars? Unless you have a mental condition, you won’t do any of the aforementioned actions.
 
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