Reading Scripture together as Christians

[Reformed]

This is the heart of the gospel of God’s grace:

For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

It seems our understanding of this passage divides our religious communities. Could you please explain your interpertation and understanding of this passage?

 

[ryanoneil]

Jesus Christ is the new Adam who reverses all the mistakes of the first Adam.

Let’s go back to the scriptures. Additional comments are requested.

Philippians 2-3

Christ’s Example of Humility
5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, [1] 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them. (Gen 1:27)

But the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die! No, God knows well that the moment you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods who know what is good and what is bad.” (Gen 3:4-5)

7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, [2] being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

The woman answered the serpent: “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden; it is only about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden that God said, ‘You shall not eat it or even touch it, lest you die.’” (Gen 3:2-3)

The woman saw that the tree was good for food, pleasing to the eyes, and desirable for gaining wisdom. So she took some of its fruit and ate it; and she also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. (Gen 3:6)

By the sweat of your face shall you get bread to eat, Until you return to the ground, from which you were taken; For you are dirt, and to dirt you shall return." (Gan 3:19)

9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Then the LORD God said: “See! The man has become like one of us, knowing what is good and what is bad! Therefore, he must not be allowed to put out his hand to take fruit from the tree of life also, and thus eat of it and live forever.” The LORD God therefore banished him from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he had been taken. When he expelled the man, he settled him east of the garden of Eden; and he stationed the cherubim and the fiery revolving sword, to guard the way to the tree of life. (Gen 3:22-24)

 

[ryanoneil]

This is the heart of the gospel of God’s grace:

For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

It seems our understanding of this passage divides our religious communities. Could you please explain your interpertation and understanding of this passage?

Paul says that his knowledge of Christ led him to reassess the ways of truly pleasing and serving God. Not his righteous (works of the law), but faith and good works in Christ.

**It is not that I have already taken hold of it or have already attained perfect maturity, but I continue my pursuit in hope that I may possess it, since I have indeed been taken possession of by Christ (Jesus). Brothers, I for my part do not consider myself to have taken possession. Just one thing: forgetting what lies behind but straining forward to what lies ahead, I continue my pursuit toward the goal, the prize of God’s upward calling, in Christ Jesus.(Phil. 3:12-14) **

Paul has no presumption of salvation but faith that works out in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12) .

Good works in Christ that is, which he describes in chapter 4. Especially this verse
It is not that I am eager for the gift; rather, I am eager for the profit that accrues to your account. (Phil 4:17)

Paul says (good works) increase our justification. Paul says these works increase our “credit,” which is also called “merit.” These merits bring forth more graces from God, furthering increasing our justification as we are so disposed. But the works, and merits are all borne from God’s unmerited and undeserved mercy won for us by Jesus Christ.

Look anywhere Paul talks about (works of the law) vs. (good work) and you will find the same thing. Faith is always accompanied by good works and both are a gift of God’s grace.

 

[ryanoneil]

in zeal I persecuted the church, in righteousness based on the law I was blameless. (But) whatever gains I had, these I have come to consider a loss because of Christ. (Phil 3:6-7)

"I am a Jew, born in Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city. At the feet of Gamaliel I was educated strictly in our ancestral law and was zealous for God, just as all of you are today.I persecuted this Way to death, binding both men and women and delivering them to prison. Even the high priest and the whole council of elders can testify on my behalf. For from them I even received letters to the brothers and set out for Damascus to bring back to Jerusalem in chains for punishment those there as well. "On that journey as I drew near to Damascus, about noon a great light from the sky suddenly shone around me. I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?’ I replied, ‘Who are you, sir?’ And he said to me, ‘I am Jesus the Nazorean whom you are persecuting.’ My companions saw the light but did not hear the voice of the one who spoke to me. I asked, ‘What shall I do, sir?’ The Lord answered me, 'Get up and go into Damascus, and there you will be told about everything appointed for you to do. (Acts 22:3-10)

And what was the first thing he was appointed to do?

Since I could see nothing because of the brightness of that light, I was led by hand by my companions and entered Damascus. "A certain Ananias, a devout observer of the law, and highly spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, came to me and stood there and said, ‘Saul, my brother, regain your sight.’ And at that very moment I regained my sight and saw him. Then he said, ‘The God of our ancestors designated you to know his will, to see the Righteous One, and to hear the sound of his voice; for you will be his witness before all to what you have seen and heard.’ Now, why delay? Get up and have yourself baptized and your sins washed away, calling upon his name. (Acts 22:11-16)

More than that, I even consider everything as a loss because of the supreme good of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have accepted the loss of all things and I consider them so much rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having any righteousness of my own based on the law but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God, depending on faith to know him and the power of his resurrection and (the) sharing of his sufferings by being conformed to his death, if somehow I may attain the resurrection from the dead. (Phil 3:8-11)

Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life. For if we have grown into union with him through a death like his, we shall also be united with him in the resurrection. We know that our old self was crucified with him, so that our sinful body might be done away with, that we might no longer be in slavery to sin. For a dead person has been absolved from sin. If, then, we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. We know that Christ, raised from the dead, dies no more; death no longer has power over him. As to his death, he died to sin once and for all; as to his life, he lives for God. Consequently, you too must think of yourselves as (being) dead to sin and living for God in Christ Jesus. (Rom 6:3-11)

 

[Reformed]

Paul says that his knowledge of Christ led him to reassess the ways of truly pleasing and serving God. Not his righteous (works of the law), but faith and good works in Christ.

**It is not that I have already taken hold of it or have already attained perfect maturity, but I continue my pursuit in hope that I may possess it, since I have indeed been taken possession of by Christ (Jesus). Brothers, I for my part do not consider myself to have taken possession. Just one thing: forgetting what lies behind but straining forward to what lies ahead, I continue my pursuit toward the goal, the prize of God’s upward calling, in Christ Jesus.(Phil. 3:12-14) **

Paul has no presumption of salvation but faith that works out in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12) .

Good works in Christ that is, which he describes in chapter 4. Especially this verse
It is not that I am eager for the gift; rather, I am eager for the profit that accrues to your account. (Phil 4:17)

Paul says (good works) increase our justification. Paul says these works increase our “credit,” which is also called “merit.” These merits bring forth more graces from God, furthering increasing our justification as we are so disposed. But the works, and merits are all borne from God’s unmerited and undeserved mercy won for us by Jesus Christ.

Look anywhere Paul talks about (works of the law) vs. (good work) and you will find the same thing. Faith is always accompanied by good works and both are a gift of God’s grace.

Can you guys at least understand why Protestant Christians discern the Roman Catholic good news to be one of personal merit and personal good works for justification. In contrast, we (Protestants) understand Scripture revelation teach that our justification is based soley on the merit and good works of Christ alone. We are awarded for our personal works done in Christ as a reward, but our works are never the basis for our justification. I have seen a consistent pattern of Roman Catholics manipulating Phillipians Phil. 2:12 to support a gospel of personal works and merit as a basis for our justification. This perspective gives man a reason to boast before God and man. Are you saying that your justification is based on 50% of the merit of Christ and 50% of your personal merit done in Christ? I’ll post this passges used in two different ways.

The Roman Catholic usage:

Philippians 2:12

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

The Protestant understanding of the same passage:

Philippians 2:12-13

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

As I have already posted, our dividing line is the doctrine of justification. What is the basis of our justification? When are we justified according to Scripture? When we are justified, God adopts us into His family as a son or daughter of the Most High God. We cry abba Father, because He becomes our Heavenly Father. Why would our Heavenly Father disown us, or place us in a conditional relationship with Him as Father based on our obedience? For those who have been blessed to be an earthly father or mother, would you disown your children based on their disobedience to you? If your answer is no, why would God who is so much more greater than all of us abandon His adopted children whom Christ died for?

 

[Reformed]

in zeal I persecuted the church, in righteousness based on the law I was blameless. (But) whatever gains I had, these I have come to consider a loss because of Christ. (Phil 3:6-7)

"I am a Jew, born in Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city. At the feet of Gamaliel I was educated strictly in our ancestral law and was zealous for God, just as all of you are today.I persecuted this Way to death, binding both men and women and delivering them to prison… . (Acts 22:3-10)

And what was the first thing he was appointed to do?

Since I could see nothing because of the brightness of that light, I was led by hand by my companions and entered Damascus. "A certain Ananias, a devout observer of the law, and highly spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, came to me and stood there and said, ‘Saul, my brother, regain your sight.’ And at that very moment I regained my sight and saw him. Then he said, ‘The God of our ancestors designated you to know his will, to see the Righteous One, and to hear the sound of his voice; for you will be his witness before all to what you have seen and heard.’ Now, why delay? Get up and have yourself baptized and your sins washed away, calling upon his name. (Acts 22:11-16)

More than that, I even consider everything as a loss because of the supreme good of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have accepted the loss of all things and I consider them so much rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having any righteousness of my own based on the law but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God, depending on faith to know him and the power of his resurrection and (the) sharing of his sufferings by being conformed to his death, if somehow I may attain the resurrection from the dead. (Phil 3:8-11)

Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life. For if we have grown into union with him through a death like his, we shall also be united with him in the resurrection. We know that our old self was crucified with him, so that our sinful body might be done away with, that we might no longer be in slavery to sin. For a dead person has been absolved from sin. If, then, we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. We know that Christ, raised from the dead, dies no more; death no longer has power over him. As to his death, he died to sin once and for all; as to his life, he lives for God. Consequently, you too must think of yourselves as (being) dead to sin and living for God in Christ Jesus. (Rom 6:3-11)

Romans 6 is the inward reality of the baptism done by the Spirit of God which unites us to Christ. The outward sign of the inward reality is water baptism.

Acts 22:11-16

11 And since I could not see because of the brightness of that light, I was led by the hand by those who were with me, and came into Damascus.

12 “And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, 13 came to me, and standing by me said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight.’ And at that very hour I received my sight and saw him. 14 And he said, ‘The God of our fathers appointed you to know his will, to see the Righteous One and to hear a voice from his mouth; 15 for you will be a witness for him to everyone of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’ - Acts

At what point was Saul able to see the Lord? At what point was Paul born from above before or after water baptism? It sure seems Saul was baptized in the Holy Spirit before water baptism to be able to see Jesus Christ as who He is. Prior to that understanding, Saul was spirituality blind.

John 3

You Must Be Born Again
3:1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus [1] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [3] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You [4] must be born again.’ 8 The wind [5] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you [6] do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. [7] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. [8] - John 3

 

[ryanoneil]

Can you guys at least understand why Protestant Christians discern the Roman Catholic good news to be one of personal merit and personal good works for justification.

Informed Catholics understand why. Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli didn’t really understand what Catholic theology says.

As I have already posted, our dividing line is the doctrine of justification. What is the basis of our justification? When are we justified according to Scripture? When we are justified, God adopts us into His family as a son or daughter of the Most High God. We cry abba Father, because He becomes our Heavenly Father. Why would our Heavenly Father disown us, or place us in a conditional relationship with Him as Father based on our obedience? For those who have been blessed to be an earthly father or mother, would you disown your children based on their disobedience to you? If your answer is no, why would God who is so much more greater than all of us abandon His adopted children whom Christ died for?

How would Calvin answer these questions?

I have an idea, but it would be nice to really understand it.

 

[Crystal_H]

Gee… I thought we were going to read though Phillipians together. BUT again… Reformed has turned the thread into a why Catholics are deceived by a works based, man made religion…

 

[Reformed]

Informed Catholics understand why. Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli didn’t really understand what Catholic theology says.

How would Calvin answer these questions?

I have an idea, but it would be nice to really understand it.

I’m not sure what Luther, Calvin and Zwingli have to do with my question. I would be nice to get an answer to my questions during our Bible Study. The Scriptures should drive our questions and answers on this thread if possible. Here are my questions again:

As I have already posted, our dividing line is the doctrine of justification. What is the basis of our justification? When are we justified according to Scripture? When we are justified, God adopts us into His family as a son or daughter of the Most High God. We cry abba Father, because He becomes our Heavenly Father. Why would our Heavenly Father disown us, or place us in a conditional relationship with Him as Father based on our obedience? For those who have been blessed to be an earthly father or mother, would you disown your children based on their disobedience to you? If your answer is no, why would God who is so much more greater than all of us abandon His adopted children whom Christ died for?

 

[Reformed]

Gee… I thought we were going to read though Phillipians together. BUT again… Reformed has turned the thread into a why Catholics are deceived by a works based, man made religion…

I think the Scripture is bringing up our questions and discussions. Here is the Scripture in our study together that is driving this discussion:

For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

Crystal, please share your understanding of this passage.

2 Timothy 2:15

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

 

[cfrancis]

Acts 22:11-16

11 And since I could not see because of the brightness of that light, I was led by the hand by those who were with me, and came into Damascus.

12 “And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, 13 came to me, and standing by me said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight.’ And at that very hour I received my sight and saw him. 14 And he said, ‘The God of our fathers appointed you to know his will, to see the Righteous One and to hear a voice from his mouth; 15 for you will be a witness for him to everyone of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’ - Acts

At what point was Saul able to see the Lord? At what point was Paul born from above before or after water baptism? It sure seems Saul was baptized in the Holy Spirit before water baptism to be able to see Jesus Christ as who He is. Prior to that understanding, Saul was spirituality blind.

If you are, in to v13, equating Ananias saying, “‘Brother Saul, receive your sight’ And at that very hour I received my sight and saw him” as meaning Saul saw God, you’re losing credibility quickly, especially in light of Acts 9:10-19.
Note, too, the baptism washing away Saul’s sins. Regenerational baptism, as described below in John 3!

John 3

You Must Be Born Again
3:1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus [1] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [3] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You [4] must be born again.’ 8 The wind [5] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

 

[Reformed]

If you are, in to v13, equating Ananias saying, “‘Brother Saul, receive your sight’ And at that very hour I received my sight and saw him” as meaning Saul saw God, you’re losing credibility quickly, especially in light of Acts 9:10-19.
Note, too, the baptism washing away Saul’s sins. Regenerational baptism, as described below in John 3!

In circles and circles we go…round and round like a merry go round. We are all dependent on God the Holy Spirit to understand spiritual truths.

Wisdom from the Spirit
6 Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. 7 But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But, as it is written,

“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him”—

10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. [3]

14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ. - 1 Cor 2

 

[cfrancis]

In circles and circles we go…round and round like a merry go round. We are all dependent on God the Holy Spirit to understand spiritual truths.

Very true - and not actually addressing the issue. Perhaps the Holy Spirit will indeed help you understand spiritual truths!

 

[dawid]

Since we discussed the end of the chapter, how about the very begining of it?

Philippians 1

Greeting

Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus,

To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are at Philippi, with the overseers and deacons:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Protestants tend to see all Christians as saints based on our union with Christ. It is my understanding that the Catholic Church will determine if a Christian is an actual saint. It appears Paul is calling everyone in the church to be saints in chapter 1.Paul is greeting everyone (entire church in Philippi make up the saints) with grace and peace from God our Father. Do you want to explain why we understand this differently?

The early Church named the martyrs as saints.
Later they included others who had led exemplary lives.

Towards the 16th century, the privilege of the individual churches in declaring saints was rescinded and held by the Holy See.

 

[Reformed]

Very true - and not actually addressing the issue. Perhaps the Holy Spirit will indeed help you understand spiritual truths!

26 I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 27 But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him. 1 John 2

The Protestant paraphrase of the passage above: The Holy Spirit abides in you, and you do not need the Roman Catholic Magestrium to teach you spiritual truths. The Holy Spirt teaches you about everything through the Word of God.

God the Holy Spirit who dwells in you is superior than the Catholic Magestrium made up of fallible men.

 

[Reformed]

The early Church named the martyrs as saints.
Later they included others who had led exemplary lives.

Towards the 16th century, the privilege of the individual churches in declaring saints was rescinded and held by the Holy See.

Do you consider yourself to be a saint according to the Word of God? Don’t foget to make a small s for saint and a big S for Saint.

 

[cfrancis]

26 I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 27 But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him. 1 John 2

The Protestant paraphrase of the passage above: The Holy Spirit abides in you, and you do not need the Roman Catholic Magestrium to teach you spiritual truths. The Holy Spirt teaches you about everything through the Word of God.

God the Holy Spirit who dwells in you is superior than the Catholic Magestrium made up of fallible men.

Were Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, and James fallible men?

 

[Reformed]

Were Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, and James fallible men?

God the Holy Spirit works through these fallible men in creating the Holy Scriptures. Are you implying the Word of God is fallible? The author of Scripture is God. Does the Roman Catholic Church teach that the Scriptures are not God-breathed?

 

[Crystal_H]

I think the Scripture is bringing up our questions and discussions. Here is the Scripture in our study together that is driving this discussion:

For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

Crystal, please share your understanding of this passage.

2 Timothy 2:15

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

Okay… I’ll bite…
Paul is stating that he has given up all that his previous ‘law based’ standing has given him for the sake of the gospel. Since Saul was a previously well respected member of his Jewish community, he has given all of that up despite the cost to him… rejection from his family… those in his previous social circles yada yada for the truth of Christ though his ACTIVE faith. (which is a work)
the righteousness from God that depends on faith
God’s righteousness is given to us dependant on our faith. We need to actively pursue it.

Now let’s skip down to verses 17-19…
Join with others in being imitators of me, brother, and observe those who thus conduct themselves according to the model you have in us. For many, as I have often told you and now tell you even in tears, conduct themselves as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction. Their God is their stomach; their glory is their “shame.”
Their minds are occupied with earthly things.

So conduct is a work… not just having a God given grace… one has to work for the things of God, not just for their earthly gain of “filling their stomachs”

He is instructing the Church in Phillipi to live the Gospel.

Sorry for the simplified version but I like to break things down so my children understand .

Does that work for ya?
Now… for Reformed’s response…

 

[cfrancis]

God the Holy Spirit works through these fallible men in creating the Holy Scriptures. Are you implying the Word of God is fallible? The author of Scripture is God. Does the Roman Catholic Church teach that the Scriptures are not God-breathed?

Perhaps when dealing with others in different forums, the tactic of asking diversionary questions works well for you.
So, the Holy Spirit was able to protect these fallible men when they wrote.
Presumably, you believe the Holy Spirit protected fallible men when they set the canon of Scripture.
The Holy Spirit protects the Pope, and the bishops in communion with him (all fallible men) as well.