Reading Vatican II documents

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Something I’ve heard repeated over and over, to justify certain things, is the phrase “in the spirit of Vatican II.” I’ve talked with various people, while trying to learn about Catholicism, who have even stated that certain traditions were changed by Vatican II, and I think we’ve all heard someone say “oh, that was before the Second Vatican Council.”

So, I decided to find out for myself exactly what Vatican II declared. I stopped by the National Shrine this evening and picked up Volumes I and II of Fr. Flannery’s collections of the Vatican II documents.

I have not been able to put Volume I down. It’s a very interesting read! I consider myself a bit of a traditionalist and initially think of Vatican II as kind of anti-tradition, but I’m dead wrong! From what I’ve read so far, Vatican II, through these documents, demands adherence to tradition and I’ve already read several references to the Council of Trent.

Anyways, I just thought I’d share this with those of you, who like me, want to know specifically what Vatican II was all about. Don’t let the size of the books haunt you; these documents are very easy to read.
 
I’ve read them too! People use the term “spirit of Vatican II” not to refer to the actual documents but to refer to how people incorrectly “implemented” them.

When you read the documents you realize just how important tradition was to them!
 
*Dear Damoooster,
Thanks for bringing the Vatican II documents to our attention. More than once have I wanted to read a good book or two on this subject. I am looking forward in purchasing these books so to learn more.
God Bless,
Angel Face
*
 
I sometimes carry my volume of the documents with me to conferences and seminars where I am likely to encounter the “spirit of Vatican II” or such nonsense. When such a proposition comes up I hand the person the book and request that she [it’s most often a sister] show me the reference which supports her assertion.

Needless to say, the documentary evidence is never cited. Moreover, it soon becomes apparent that the person making the claim has no familiarity whatsoever with the documents.

Not to worry; the wisdom and truth of the Council will outlive both its critics and its hijackers. The Holy Spirit says so.

AMDG
jsa
 
damooster said:
Something I’ve heard repeated over and over, to justify certain things, is the phrase “in the spirit of Vatican II.” I’ve talked with various people, while trying to learn about Catholicism, who have even stated that certain traditions were changed by Vatican II, and I think we’ve all heard someone say “oh, that was before the Second Vatican Council.”

So, I decided to find out for myself exactly what Vatican II declared. I stopped by the National Shrine this evening and picked up Volumes I and II of Fr. Flannery’s collections of the Vatican II documents.

I have not been able to put Volume I down. It’s a very interesting read! I consider myself a bit of a traditionalist and initially think of Vatican II as kind of anti-tradition, but I’m dead wrong! From what I’ve read so far, Vatican II, through these documents, demands adherence to tradition and I’ve already read several references to the Council of Trent.

Anyways, I just thought I’d share this with those of you, who like me, want to know specifically what Vatican II was all about. Don’t let the size of the books haunt you; these documents are very easy to read.
Click to expand...
Another thing to keep in mind is that Fr Flannery’s books contain both conciliar and post-conciliar documents. Only the actual Council documents can properly be called “Vatican II” There are a lot of documents in those 2 volumes (for the benefit of readers here who don’t have the books handy)–and most of them come from after the Council. That’s another way of saying that just because one might read something that is in the book called “Vatican II” doesn’t mean it’s actually from Vatican II.

Part of the reason why we have all this confusion is that while the council was happening, many secular news outlets carried coverage of it. They provided their own “slant” on what was happening and what was being said. It was this commentary that made its way into our popular (but incorrect) thinking about the Council, rather than the actual documents. I’ve spoken to many priests who were seminarians at the time. They have all said that while the Council was happening, they poured over the media coverage but never actually read the Council’s documents. That’s a huge part of the reason why we’re in the mess that we’re in today.

Personally, I feel that the true “Spirit of Vatican II” has only recently begun to emerge, in the later days of John Paul the Great, and now under Benedict XVI. It’s been 45 years since the Council. That may seem like a long time to us, but viewed through the lense of how long it took the early Ecumenical Councils to truly take root in the Church, that’s not long at all.
 
Our priest breaks the rules of the G.I.R.M. all the time. if you say anything he says quit trying to be the liturgical police. He also openly allows divorced and remarried couples and couples married outside the church to recieve communion. He says this is the "true spirit of Vatican II. Would anyone know the exact quote in the documents that he is refering to.
 
The “spirit of Vatican II” is a phrase used to justify wholesale abuse of the Liturgy and doctrine by very liberal Catholics who really think Vatican II didn’t go far enough.
 
DSJJ said:
Our priest breaks the rules of the G.I.R.M. all the time. if you say anything he says quit trying to be the liturgical police.
Click to expand...
It occurs to me that the only people who would be concerned about the “liturgical police” are the “liturgical criminals”. 😃
 
damooster said:
Something I’ve heard repeated over and over, to justify certain things, is the phrase “in the spirit of Vatican II.” I’ve talked with various people, while trying to learn about Catholicism, who have even stated that certain traditions were changed by Vatican II, and I think we’ve all heard someone say “oh, that was before the Second Vatican Council.”

So, I decided to find out for myself exactly what Vatican II declared. I stopped by the National Shrine this evening and picked up Volumes I and II of Fr. Flannery’s collections of the Vatican II documents.

I have not been able to put Volume I down. It’s a very interesting read! I consider myself a bit of a traditionalist and initially think of Vatican II as kind of anti-tradition, but I’m dead wrong! From what I’ve read so far, Vatican II, through these documents, demands adherence to tradition and I’ve already read several references to the Council of Trent.

Anyways, I just thought I’d share this with those of you, who like me, want to know specifically what Vatican II was all about. Don’t let the size of the books haunt you; these documents are very easy to read.
Click to expand...
Just so everyone knows, all of the documents of Vatican II are freely available online:

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/index.htm
 
mwscott said:
I’ve read them too! People use the term “spirit of Vatican II” not to refer to the actual documents but to refer to how people incorrectly “implemented” them.

When you read the documents you realize just how important tradition was to them!
Click to expand...
I always took the phrase “in the spirit of V2” to mean “what I wish or will pretend V2 had said and done”, at least that is how I have seen it applied in practice. At least in my admittedly narrow experience, each and every person in authority over me who excused an action or decision or policy using that phrase has been proven to have never read an actual V2 document. That applies equally to those who have criticized me because my policy, decision or action is “not in the spirit of V2”.
 
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