Ready to move out, still some reservations

[TarkanAttila]

Briefly, our household is explosive. Mom, Sis, and I really don’t like each others’ company, to put it very, very nicely.

So my sister has finally started looking for an apartment so she can move out. I am thinking of doing the same once I start my new job and save up the money.

One problem: our mom, at least it seems to me, needs someone to help her. Not extensively; she’s in OK health for a 60 year old. But she has diabetes type 1. She also has eye appointments that require someone to drive her home. And I don’t think she can do all the yardwork by herself (not that Sis or I do much towards that ends anyway…). And some nights she gets very… lethargic… Otherwise, she is very independent and self-sustaining, sociable, able to get to Mass.

Yes, we’re a real cohesive family unit. But I want to strike out on my own, live somewhere closer to my parish (somewhere that’s not a 30 minute bike ride away). And, as I said, we’re all tired of each other. I feel I would give my mother more respect by leaving than by grating on her any more.

I think I’ve answered my own questions, but I still wonder what you think: 1) do you think someone needs to stay around my mom’s home to take care of her? and 2) should I leave and go get my own apartment?

 

[Xantippe]

Briefly, our household is explosive. Mom, Sis, and I really don’t like each others’ company, to put it very, very nicely.

So my sister has finally started looking for an apartment so she can move out. I am thinking of doing the same once I start my new job and save up the money.

One problem: our mom, at least it seems to me, needs someone to help her. Not extensively; she’s in OK health for a 60 year old. But she has diabetes type 1. She also has eye appointments that require someone to drive her home. And I don’t think she can do all the yardwork by herself (not that Sis or I do much towards that ends anyway…). And some nights she gets very… lethargic… Otherwise, she is very independent and self-sustaining, sociable, able to get to Mass.

Yes, we’re a real cohesive family unit. But I want to strike out on my own, live somewhere closer to my parish (somewhere that’s not a 30 minute bike ride away). And, as I said, we’re all tired of each other. I feel I would give my mother more respect by leaving than by grating on her any more.

I think I’ve answered my own questions, but I still wonder what you think: 1) do you think someone needs to stay around my mom’s home to take care of her? and 2) should I leave and go get my own apartment?

Normally, 60-year-old women do just fine by themselves. My great-grandmother lived by herself half a mile from the nearest neighbor until she was about 90.

If you’re not helping with the yardwork anyway, your moving out won’t make a big difference.

She can’t have that many eye appointments.

So, yeah, feel free to move out when you can and live independently. There may come a day when your mom won’t be able to live alone, but it isn’t here yet.

A short daily phone call or text exchange once you move out is probably a good idea, given her diabetes.

 

[Catholic1954]

It’s time to move out and have a life of your own. Be there for doctor’s appointments and hire someone to do the yard; it will be ok.

 

[Joannm]

I am 61 and do very well. 60 today is not elderly unless their is a major medical condition. People with diabetes if controlled can live pretty much a normal life. I have several friends with the disease. Back to my 61 year old self, I mow my lawn, take out the garbage, unclog the toilet, paint, power wash, move furniture, etc. Granted I am married but if my husband, God forbid, would die tomorrow I would be able to take care of the house and do whatever is necessary. Plenty of widowed women are living on their own quite well into their 90s. Their kids assist when needed, like driving to doctors appointment if necessary, or helping with some fixing around the house, but that doesn’t mean they have to live with mom.

I have known a number of people who lived with their moms who gave them the impression that mom needed them, when in actually mom was quite healthy and would be able to live on their own. They never got married, mom made them feel guilty when going on vacations or doing things that did not include mom. For some that might be fine, but for others it’s not. You say your family is explosive. That is not good for any of you. You know you could also be holding back Mom from experiencing things on her own.

Move out and visit Mom or call and check on her. You have the right to be happy and live your life. Kids are meant to take off on their own. Now if Mom was bedridden or handicapped that might be another story, but from what you said it seems she is able bodied.

 

[tawny]

Praying for the intentions of you & your family.

 

[BlueKnight]

You can always visit every two weeks to do the yard word .

Use it as an excuse to spend a little time together.

 

[Xantippe]

You can always visit every two weeks to do the yard word .

Use it as an excuse to spend a little time together.

Right.

We have lawn guys twice a month. They don’t find it necessary to live at our house.

 

[midori]

Think of it like National Geographic… eventually, the young 'uns get chased from the main family group to strike out and go off on their own. It’s a healthy part of life, and maybe a little distance will help improve your relationships.

If it was me, though, I’d be inclined to start your job and save very, very aggressively. An apartment is $700, $200 for food, plus $300 for utilities? OK… $1200/month, off the top, straight into a savings account that you don’t touch. In the meantime, pick a bill-- electric, phone, water, groceries, something-- and contribute. See how just paying that one bill makes you feel, and decide whether or not running your own household is fiscally feasible. In addition, I’d give a few months to see how our dynamic changes with (a) my sister being gone, and (b) me being at work M-F 7 am-6 pm, or whatever your work schedule is.

Don’t just run away from something-- make sure that where you’re running to is a prudent destination. Good luck to you and your family.

 

[TarkanAttila]

Thanks, all. It’s nice to know I am thinking rightly.

If it was me, though, I’d be inclined to start your job and save very, very aggressively. An apartment is $700, $200 for food, plus $300 for utilities?

Ha! At least, if apartments.com is to be trusted, I can find apartments for all of $500/month! And they usually come with utilities paid for around here (not that I’ve asked anyone in person).

OK… $1200/month, off the top, straight into a savings account that you don’t touch. In the meantime, pick a bill-- electric, phone, water, groceries, something-- and contribute. See how just paying that one bill makes you feel, and decide whether or not running your own household is fiscally feasible. In addition, I’d give a few months to see how our dynamic changes with (a) my sister being gone, and (b) me being at work M-F 7 am-6 pm, or whatever your work schedule is.

Don’t just run away from something-- make sure that where you’re running to is a prudent destination. Good luck to you and your family.

Thanks for the advice. Currently I make all of $75/week. But I look forward to a job beginning the 3rd of August. I was planning on getting an apartment once I got my first paycheck (to the tune of $700!) since I can find half-decent apartments for $500 or less.

I don’t think the dynamic will change much, as my sis is gone most of the time anyway. And frankly, none of us interact much as it is. I’ve been pondering leaving for a long time. But until recently, I had no job prospects. And while being homeless for the prospect of peace and St. Francis-ness was tempting, what can I say? I like having a roof over my head and a shower.

 

[pensmama87]

Thanks for the advice. Currently I make all of $75/week. But I look forward to a job beginning the 3rd of August. I was planning on getting an apartment once I got my first paycheck (to the tune of $700!) since I can find half-decent apartments for $500 or less.

One thing to keep in mind is that landlords often require a security deposit of either one month or two months’ rent, that would be returned to you when you moved out (provided you don’t trash the place).

My first apartment was $750/month and “included” utilities were gas heat, electric, water, sewer, and trash collection. That was in a more urban area and I lived in a big complex. My second apartment (suburban duplex) was only $600/month, but I had to pay my own gas and electric bills (water and sewer and trash were still covered - trash was covered by municipal taxes and landlords often pay water and sewer because they are the ones who get chased if the bills go deliquent). So check to see what “included utilities” would mean.

I’d also recommend having an emergency fund - because those regular expenses will still exist even if something were to happen to your income and it’s a good idea to have at least something to tide you over.

 

[Xantippe]

One thing to keep in mind is that landlords often require a security deposit of either one month or two months’ rent, that would be returned to you when you moved out (provided you don’t trash the place).

My first apartment was $750/month and “included” utilities were gas heat, electric, water, sewer, and trash collection. That was in a more urban area and I lived in a big complex. My second apartment (suburban duplex) was only $600/month, but I had to pay my own gas and electric bills (water and sewer and trash were still covered - trash was covered by municipal taxes and landlords often pay water and sewer because they are the ones who get chased if the bills go deliquent). So check to see what “included utilities” would mean.

I’d also recommend having an emergency fund - because those regular expenses will still exist even if something were to happen to your income and it’s a good idea to have at least something to tide you over.

Right.

Also, a good rule of thumb is to keep your housing costs below about 25% of income if at all possible. Once you get anywhere near 50% of income going just toward housing costs, disaster looms.

Elizabeth Warren suggests a 50/30/20 budget. That’s 50% of income going to fixed costs (housing, utilities, transportation, etc.), 30% going for fun/optionals, and 20% going to savings/debt repayment. The beauty of her plan is that in the case of a disaster where your income got cut in half, you’d still be able to live on half of your income (the 50% allotted for fixed costs). On a low income, that might not be practical, but the theory is smart, I think. More people are eaten alive by high rent and high car payments than are eaten alive by fancy tennis shoes–you can always stop buying more tennis shoes, but once you have a rental agreement and a car payment, you can’t get out of those nearly as easily as you can cut back discretionary spending. So, it pays to be wariest of fixed costs.

Before you move out, it might be a good idea to take a personal finance class. I often recommend Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University.

Good luck!

 

[Isca]

I had a friend who was an only child. He had lived at home all his life, he was 20 years older than me. Next door lived his father’s sister and her husband, who were childless. First of all his dad died, then his uncle. Mum found it hard to walk but had all her faculties. Aunt could walk very well, but was completely deaf. Between them, they got around and had a full life.

I urged my friend to move out when he could, maybe find a nice lady and settle down. He was a kind man, he would have made a good husband. He said he was thinking about it. Then one day, mum and aunt went on holiday and aunt died, very suddenly and unexpectedly. Mum was alone - except for my friend. He was then unable to leave home, as she needed him and had no-one else.

He ended up giving up his job in his 50s to be her full-time carer. It wasn’t good for either of them, and when she eventually died, he was as old as your mum is now and very impoverished - luckily, he had a roof over his head. He now has absolutely no family (not even a cousin), few friends and is in his late 70s.

The moral of this story is move out when your parents are well enough to look after themselves. Good luck to you and I hope you soon gain a peaceful, new independence. I’m sure you’ll help your mum when she needs it.

 

[Trident_H]

Briefly, our household is explosive. Mom, Sis, and I really don’t like each others’ company, to put it very, very nicely.

So my sister has finally started looking for an apartment so she can move out. I am thinking of doing the same once I start my new job and save up the money.

One problem: our mom, at least it seems to me, needs someone to help her. Not extensively; she’s in OK health for a 60 year old. But she has diabetes type 1. She also has eye appointments that require someone to drive her home. And I don’t think she can do all the yardwork by herself (not that Sis or I do much towards that ends anyway…). And some nights she gets very… lethargic… Otherwise, she is very independent and self-sustaining, sociable, able to get to Mass.

Yes, we’re a real cohesive family unit. But I want to strike out on my own, live somewhere closer to my parish (somewhere that’s not a 30 minute bike ride away). And, as I said, we’re all tired of each other. I feel I would give my mother more respect by leaving than by grating on her any more.

I think I’ve answered my own questions, but I still wonder what you think: 1) do you think someone needs to stay around my mom’s home to take care of her? and 2) should I leave and go get my own apartment?

Yeah, I think it is cool for you to move out. You’ve gotta get a life sometime and if you don’t do it soon you might end up in an unhealthy relationship with your mom by her making up excuses for you to stay because she doesn’t want to be alone. Had a friend with this problem. He ended up staying at home until his mom finally died, but by then he was a confirmed bachelor. For keeps.

 

[midori]

Good to hear that you live in a place where (a) you can get a clean and safe apartment at a reasonable price, and (b) that that reasonable price includes utilities as well.

But still, it’s important to give yourself a cushion. 40% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. 62% of Americans have no emergency savings and are one crisis away from being homeless. Don’t pre-spend that first paycheck before you’ve even started. Just make one major jump at a time, and position yourself for future stability.

Get used to your job. Do you have the discipline to handle going from earning $300/month to $700 [pre-tax? post-tax?]/[week? biweekly?]. It sounds like a stupid thing, but once your income expands, so do your expenditures. [Ask me how I know, lol…]

Will you like your job? Will your job like you? Have you ever seen a coworker get ousted because they didn’t “fit in”? Have you ever known anyone who got a job that was described as A, but in reality, it turned out to be B, and they would have been trapped if they didn’t have their safety net in place? Have you ever known anyone who had a great interview… but didn’t catch on to doing the actual work, and had to be let go?

I’d recommend giving it a minimum of six months before you make your next big leap. Some landlords rent to anyone who has move-in funds on hand. In my area, those are the ones who rent to druggies and felons, and their houses are decrepit because the druggies and felons can’t be picky. Other landlords might require first, last, and security deposit. Can you pay that without blinking? Job stability will also speak well for you. Six months isn’t a lot in the great scheme of things, but it’s better than a week or two.

You’re looking at a lot of changes. What’s desirable and what’s practical aren’t always the same things. If you’re not in any danger by staying put, make a list of goals to accomplish. X by September 1st, Y by December 1st, Z by March 1st. “Poverty” often comes from a lack of resources in general, not just a lack of money. Don’t throw away the resources you already have all in one swoop. Pace yourself, get things set up and organized, so that everything will come together at the right time.

 

[TarkanAttila]

Right.

Elizabeth Warren suggests a 50/30/20 budget. That’s 50% of income going to fixed costs (housing, utilities, transportation, etc.), 30% going for fun/optionals, and 20% going to savings/debt repayment.

I heard about that. That sounds wise. Except for two things: I rarely need more than $100 for entertainment - a year. Having a good $200 computer and knowing how to enjoy it will do that. (Of course, that could easily change if I decide to go out with friends ever.) And I owe debts to no one. No credit cards. (No credit file, incidentally.) The only debt I owe are to my teachers and my parents, but those are the kinds of debts you could only pay off in/with a lifetime.

The beauty of her plan is that in the case of a disaster where your income got cut in half,

Or, I assume, your rent got doubled? Minimum wage is currently $8.00 in NE, and will be $9.00 next year. At $10/hour at this potential new job, I don’t have far to fall. How could your income get axed that close to minimum wage?

you can’t get out of those nearly as easily as you can cut back discretionary spending. So, it pays to be wariest of fixed costs.

Yes… I seem to recall that they want something like a rental agreement lasting a minimum of 12 months? I’m going to guess I couldn’t just duck out and part ways with them if I lose my job and can no longer afford even $450/month?

Before you move out, it might be a good idea to take a personal finance class. I often recommend Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University.

Good luck!

Thank you for the advice! And all of you, thanks!

 

[Sunbreak]

Unless someone has totally ignored treatment, diabetes doesn’t usually incapacitate someone. A 60 year old with treated diabetes is usually healthy enough to take care of themselves. So, I would say move out if you can afford it.

 

[Xantippe]

Very good advice!

Good to hear that you live in a place where (a) you can get a clean and safe apartment at a reasonable price, and (b) that that reasonable price includes utilities as well.

But still, it’s important to give yourself a cushion. 40% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. 62% of Americans have no emergency savings and are one crisis away from being homeless. Don’t pre-spend that first paycheck before you’ve even started. Just make one major jump at a time, and position yourself for future stability.

Get used to your job. Do you have the discipline to handle going from earning $300/month to $700 [pre-tax? post-tax?]/[week? biweekly?]. It sounds like a stupid thing, but once your income expands, so do your expenditures. [Ask me how I know, lol…]

Will you like your job? Will your job like you? Have you ever seen a coworker get ousted because they didn’t “fit in”? Have you ever known anyone who got a job that was described as A, but in reality, it turned out to be B, and they would have been trapped if they didn’t have their safety net in place? Have you ever known anyone who had a great interview… but didn’t catch on to doing the actual work, and had to be let go?

I’d recommend giving it a minimum of six months before you make your next big leap. Some landlords rent to anyone who has move-in funds on hand. In my area, those are the ones who rent to druggies and felons, and their houses are decrepit because the druggies and felons can’t be picky. Other landlords might require first, last, and security deposit. Can you pay that without blinking? Job stability will also speak well for you. Six months isn’t a lot in the great scheme of things, but it’s better than a week or two.

You’re looking at a lot of changes. What’s desirable and what’s practical aren’t always the same things. If you’re not in any danger by staying put, make a list of goals to accomplish. X by September 1st, Y by December 1st, Z by March 1st. “Poverty” often comes from a lack of resources in general, not just a lack of money. Don’t throw away the resources you already have all in one swoop. Pace yourself, get things set up and organized, so that everything will come together at the right time.

 

[pensmama87]

I heard about that. That sounds wise. Except for two things: I rarely need more than $100 for entertainment - a year. Having a good $200 computer and knowing how to enjoy it will do that. (Of course, that could easily change if I decide to go out with friends ever.) And I owe debts to no one. No credit cards. (No credit file, incidentally.) The only debt I owe are to my teachers and my parents, but those are the kinds of debts you could only pay off in/with a lifetime.

That may make it harder for you to find an apartment, because a lot of landlords run credit checks to see if their tenants are likely to pay their rent on time. Are you listed on any of the household bills? Other people may have ideas on how to prove that you would be a trustworthy tenant in the absence of a credit report. (What I did was I had a credit card through college that I put my gas money on and paid off every month - it was only $30-$50 at most, but at the end of college I had 48 months of on time payments, so a really good score for people my age.)

Or, I assume, your rent got doubled? Minimum wage is currently $8.00 in NE, and will be $9.00 next year. At $10/hour at this potential new job, I don’t have far to fall. How could your income get axed that close to minimum wage?

You might also lose your job, and depending on the circumstances may or may not qualify for unemployment. You don’t want to think it could happen to you, but it could. An emergency fund is a good way to prep for that in the event that it should happen, and then hopefully it won’t. Since you don’t have debt, Dave Ramsey (who runs the personal finance course Xantippe mentioned earlier and also has several books that are good) recommends 3-6 months of expenses in an emergency fund.

Yes… I seem to recall that they want something like a rental agreement lasting a minimum of 12 months? I’m going to guess I couldn’t just duck out and part ways with them if I lose my job and can no longer afford even $450/month?

It varies. Usually the first is 12 months, and then after that some landlords are happy just to rent to you month to month, or they may ask you to renew for another 12. If you walk away, you will probably at the very least lose the security deposit (which could be 1-2+ months’ rent) and may be on the hook for the rest, unless the landlord can find another tenant. It could also be really hard for you to rent again depending on how much they talk to each other in your area (and rental applications do frequently ask for references, which may be really important if you don’t have much observable financial history.)

 

[Xantippe]

I heard about that. That sounds wise. Except for two things: I rarely need more than $100 for entertainment - a year. Having a good $200 computer and knowing how to enjoy it will do that. (Of course, that could easily change if I decide to go out with friends ever.) And I owe debts to no one. No credit cards. (No credit file, incidentally.) The only debt I owe are to my teachers and my parents, but those are the kinds of debts you could only pay off in/with a lifetime.

**Are you planning to get married, have children and buy a house some day?

I don’t think dating is compatible with a $100 yearly entertainment budget.**

Or, I assume, your rent got doubled? Minimum wage is currently $8.00 in NE, and will be $9.00 next year. At $10/hour at this potential new job, I don’t have far to fall. How could your income get axed that close to minimum wage?

You could lose half your hours.

Yes… I seem to recall that they want something like a rental agreement lasting a minimum of 12 months? I’m going to guess I couldn’t just duck out and part ways with them if I lose my job and can no longer afford even $450/month?

Right. That would likely lead to legal unpleasantness and (at the very least) a ding on your credit.

Thank you for the advice! And all of you, thanks!

Good luck!

 

[Xantippe]

That may make it harder for you to find an apartment, because a lot of landlords run credit checks to see if their tenants are likely to pay their rent on time. Are you listed on any of the household bills? Other people may have ideas on how to prove that you would be a trustworthy tenant in the absence of a credit report.

Yes–good catch!

You might also lose your job, and depending on the circumstances may or may not qualify for unemployment. You don’t want to think it could happen to you, but it could. An emergency fund is a good way to prep for that in the event that it should happen, and then hopefully it won’t.

Right.