Real and imagined happiness

[Qoeleth]

In his Meditations, Descartes observes that while the objects of the external world may be false, the objects of our internal world (thoughts, ideas, emotions), are always real (although their causes may well be false).

From this, it seems as if there is no valid distinction between real and imagined happiness.

Here is a scenario. A person is a collector of gemstones. He acquires what he believes to be a huge, flawless diamond. In fact, it is synthetic, but he does not know, and, let’s say hypothetically, will never find out. So he becomes happy. Although his happiness is based on something false, his happiness is nonetheless genuine.

This is a primitive example, but the same principle may apply on a higher level. A person may imagine themselves to be respected, well-liked and talented. In reality, this may not be the case. But the person still feel happy, and this feeling, at least, is genuine.

Hence, it seems that there is no such thing as ‘artificial happiness’. Although a person may be happiness for erroneous reasons, the happiness itself remains real (the same also applies to unhappiness, of course).

If this is true, why not simply use self-hypnosis, to create a state of happiness, since the feeling of happiness is just as real whether its reasons be imagined or true?

Or, why not simply work hard to install basic beliefs (by slogans, affirmations, ‘music with a message’, self-hypnosis, etc.) that ensure happiness (e.g. “In a short while, I will go to Heaven”, or “What will be, will be”, or “Nothing exists”, or “Everything is good”)?

If all happiness is ‘real happiness’, do we approach life the wrong way around, in bothering to change exterior world, when all we really need to do is fine tune our own mental functioning?

 

[ClearWater]

Well, there’s the feeling of happiness and true, real, long lasting happiness.

For example, a lot of people use these fleeting feelings as the basis of major life decisions and more. Let’s take the example of feeling “in love”. So many people have pursued this feeling, which is probably a combination of hormones, lust and other things, much of the time.

Yes, there is true love, but it is often without the “feeling” normally associated with “love”. I once tried to date someone. I went out with him, one time. He said there was “no chemistry” and stopped! Well, besides that, it was abundantly clear to us both it wouldn’t work. Still, he thought a bolt of lightning would come out of the sky or something! If it didn’t, he was ready to move on!

Now, there are many people who think something similar like that where they use this feeling…and say I feel like I’m “in love”, that this is “the one”. Therefore, I will…put up with physical abuse, the fact he’s actually now married to someone else…the fact we otherwise seem completely incompatible, his infidelities, etc. and go with my heart.

Especially when there is already physical intimacy outside of marriage, the woman will often be producing oxytocin as a response, which creates bonding, which gives her this feeling of love and such. So, even though he may be married, she will say she feels “happy”, “in love”, that this feeling is the overriding factor, all that matters.

Now, later, what often happens is that this “happiness”, “love”, will disappear, to which she will say she fell “out of love”. I question whether it was really love or true happiness to begin with.

Some people also take drugs saying these make them “happy”, because it feels like that. However, real happiness involves doing God’s will. Imagined happiness is when we don’t.

 

[ccmnxc]

Not to give your question too pithy an answer, but I think people tend to look for truth almost as much as happiness, so they probably wouldn’t choose to deceive themselves (well, at least those who see there is no difference between real and artificial happiness). In fact, since we are created to, in part, seek Truth, I don’t think most people would be able to bring themselves to do such a thing. :twocents:

 

[john330]

Haha…I like this. I have been seeking truth my whole life, which has made me unhappy to some degree, and happy to another degree. The question has always been for me: Would I rather be a miserable Socrates, or a happy pig wallowing in my own filth? Some days I would rather be the pig (and indeed I am)!

 

[Qoeleth]

Well, there’s the feeling of happiness and true, real, long lasting happiness.

For example, a lot of people use these fleeting feelings as the basis of major life decisions and more. Let’s take the example of feeling “in love”. So many people have pursued this feeling, which is probably a combination of hormones, lust and other things, much of the time.

Yes, there is true love, but it is often without the “feeling” normally associated with “love”. I once tried to date someone. I went out with him, one time. He said there was “no chemistry” and stopped! Well, besides that, it was abundantly clear to us both it wouldn’t work. Still, he thought a bolt of lightning would come out of the sky or something! If it didn’t, he was ready to move on!

Now, there are many people who think something similar like that where they use this feeling…and say I feel like I’m “in love”, that this is “the one”. Therefore, I will…put up with physical abuse, the fact he’s actually now married to someone else…the fact we otherwise seem completely incompatible, his infidelities, etc. and go with my heart.

Especially when there is already physical intimacy outside of marriage, the woman will often be producing oxytocin as a response, which creates bonding, which gives her this feeling of love and such. So, even though he may be married, she will say she feels “happy”, “in love”, that this feeling is the overriding factor, all that matters.

Now, later, what often happens is that this “happiness”, “love”, will disappear, to which she will say she fell “out of love”. I question whether it was really love or true happiness to begin with.

Some people also take drugs saying these make them “happy”, because it feels like that. However, real happiness involves doing God’s will. Imagined happiness is when we don’t.

This is certainly true that love or happiness, which are based on falsehoods, don’t tend to last (since the falsehood itself tends not to last).

However, in the case of love, it is conceivable that a person may feel a ‘true love’ to a ‘false object of the love’. For example, a person may be ‘truly in love’ with an false impression, or a projection, of a person. Or, to give a religious example- a person may feel ‘true devotion’ to St. Christopher- and then it turns out St. Christopher never existed (nothing against St. Christopher!). The devotion itself is no less true, however.

Is ‘a feeling of happiness’ different from ‘happiness’? Certainly the feeling is more secure if grounded in truth, but, even if grounded in falsehood, the feeling can be just as genuine.

 

[Qoeleth]

Not to give your question too pithy an answer, but I think people tend to look for truth almost as much as happiness, so they probably wouldn’t choose to deceive themselves (well, at least those who see there is no difference between real and artificial happiness). In fact, since we are created to, in part, seek Truth, I don’t think most people would be able to bring themselves to do such a thing. :twocents:

I agree that the desire for truth is fundamental. But is it more fundamental than the desire for happiness?

Imagine this. There is a sealed envelope. You are told it contains a truth, which, if you read it, you will be miserable. Do you open it and read it, or just throw it away?

 

[DrTaffy]

Do you open it and read it, or just throw it away?

Or sell it on eBay?

 

[tonyrey]

Lasting happiness is only attained by following the teaching and example of Jesus because only then we are liberated from preoccupation with our own happiness and united to others with their joys and sorrows. He prayed that we may all be **one **as He and the Father are one…

 

[john330]

Agreed. Beautifully stated.

 

[tonyrey]

Agreed. Beautifully stated.

Thank you, John - although my statement is inspired by - and based on - the words of Jesus!

 

[lapis_lazuli]

Qoeleth, have you ever read Notes from the Underground by Dostoevsky? In it, there is a very important principle which can be summed up as 2+2=5. It is about the human capacity to change his own context even when it is contrary to what might constitute reality. A useful idea that goes hand in hand with this is Negative Capability, an idea proposed by the poet John Keats.

 

[lapis_lazuli]

I agree that the desire for truth is fundamental. But is it more fundamental than the desire for happiness?

I do not believe happiness should ever be sought after, likewise pleasure, or any other synonymous thing. I see these things as by=products of following what you know to be good and virtuous. If to live a good life meant to be miserable then so be it. You can make a feast of that suffering, for God. Luckily, that is not often the case, and living a good life can bring great happiness. But happiness is not a thing to be sought for, and should never be the goal. It is a bi-product, a sign that we are on the right path. I think it is interesting that we now live in an age consumed by immediate pleasure and the right to be happy, even if it means giving up one’s duty. I think that somewhere along the line the effect was confused with the cause, and men reached out for the effect, disregarding how they ever got there, which lead to what we have now: Godlessness, a culture of empty values and immorality, all held up as good and virtuous. To make happiness a goal is to miss the point.

These ideas are explored thoroughly by the Stoics.

 

[lapis_lazuli]

Lasting happiness is only attained by following the teaching and example of Jesus because only then we are liberated from preoccupation with our own happiness and united to others with their joys and sorrows. He prayed that we may all be **one **as He and the Father are one…

Sums it up beautifully. Give it all to the Glory of God.

 

[tonyrey]

*Lasting happiness is only attained by following the teaching and example of Jesus because only then we are liberated from preoccupation with our own happiness and united to others with their joys and sorrows. He prayed that we may all be **one ***

To Whom we owe everything!

 

[MyVavies]

Haha…I like this. I have been seeking truth my whole life, which has made me unhappy to some degree, and happy to another degree. The question has always been for me: Would I rather be a miserable Socrates, or a happy pig wallowing in my own filth? Some days I would rather be the pig (and indeed I am)!

LOL you hit the nail on the head for the definition of “ME”, in the dictionary.

 

[MyVavies]

I agree that the desire for truth is fundamental. But is it more fundamental than the desire for happiness?

Imagine this. There is a sealed envelope. You are told it contains a truth, which, if you read it, you will be miserable. Do you open it and read it, or just throw it away?

You just basically described the fall of humanity.