Real men must be married and have children?

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Jay53

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I’m just curious. This assertion has been made in a couple different threads that to be a ‘real man’ one must get married and have children - as if celibate, impotent or infertile men are less than human. Is this concept a personal opinion of some posters, or is a this a universal belief to Islam or any other religion? (I believe it was a Muslim poster who made this comment - please correct me if I’m wrong and I apologize if this is incorrect. 🙂 )

BTW, IMHO, this is one of THE most ridiculous things I have read on these forums. 😃
 
Jay53 said:
as if celibate, impotent or infertile men are less than human.
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Hi

No, no; they are human beings alright but with some sickness, some abnormalty, with some weirdness or something like that, please don’t mind. In no case they could be termed as fully man or 100% man, in my opinion.

In addition to that, I think, a human being has to make mistakes (not sins, not at all) or is prone to make mistakes. When a human being realizes that he could make mistakes, that creates a sense of humility- so necessary an attribute for a human being. Without this humility and humbleness one could become an arrogant or an opressor to the fellow human beings.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

No, no; they are human beings alright but with some sickness, some abnormalty, with some weirdness or something like that, . In no case they could be termed as fully man or 100% man, in my opinion.
Thanks
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Is this strictly your opinion, or is this a universal Islamic belief? Do all Muslims believe this?

Why would celibate men not be 100% men? What if they just haven’t met a woman they want to be intimate with? What if they want to sacrifice and control the “lustful” part of their lives and offer that as a sacrifice to God? Would that not be a humble or pleasing gesture to God?
please don’t mind
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Since I’m not male, you’re not directly insulting me! 😃 Other than the absurdity of your statement, I guess I don’t mind - I guess I just feel bad for all the men that you are maligning with this statement.
 
I don’t wanna get married , and why ??

I don’t need a partner in my life !!
Since I live on my own ,
I always did everything my own ,
I don’t wanna change that & I don’t
wanna share my life , it’s that simple !!
I like the silence in my place ,
no woman who shouts to me when I have to
be back home or whatever !!

I don’t wanna have kids , and why ??
My 2 handicaps , my eyesight & broken back ,
it’s already difficult enough to take care for myself !!
So why create more problems than I already have !!
It’s not that I dislike children ,
but I have to watch in the future !!
My handicap is a big obstacle to raise kids !!
And also like I said , I don’t wanna share my life !!

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), januari 4, 2009
 
either a human is a human or they are not. Either he is a man or he is not. Either he is entitled to all the same rights and privilages of others or he is not.

Perhaps he never married because the one love of his life died on the way to the alter and he could never open up again. Perhaps he never married because he had been hurt or wounded by others.

Perhaps he had no children because he was not able to. Perhaps it is because, like the previous poster said, he had other issues that he saw as limiting his ability as a father.

I would gladly defend any man who chooses not to marry as being just as much a man as one who did. Likewise, I will say that a man who had no children is as much a man as one who did.

Besides, think about what this says about women. You are only a man if you have one and get her pregnant, hopefully more than once.
 
Laurent_LUG said:
I don’t wanna get married , and why ??

I don’t need a partner in my life !!
Since I live on my own ,
I always did everything my own ,
I don’t wanna change that & I don’t
wanna share my life , it’s that simple !!
I like the silence in my place ,
no woman who shouts to me when I have to
be back home or whatever !!

I don’t wanna have kids , and why ??
My 2 handicaps , my eyesight & broken back ,
it’s already difficult enough to take care for myself !!
So why create more problems than I already have !!
It’s not that I dislike children ,
but I have to watch in the future !!
My handicap is a big obstacle to raise kids !!
And also like I said , I don’t wanna share my life !!

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), januari 4, 2009
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Hi

God Allah bless you! We were not discussing things about a person like you; we love you and I am with you in your suffering.

Well Jesus was not a handicapped man; so when he was not a handycapped man, why should we make him one.

I would say; let Jesus be a fully man (a 100% man) at least!

I love you, Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

God Allah bless you! We were not discussing things about a person like you; we love you and I am with you in your suffering.

Well Jesus was not a handicapped man; so when he was not a handycapped man, why should we make him one.

I would say; let Jesus be a fully man (a 100% man) at least!

I love you, Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks
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The fact that Jesus never married does not proove him to not be a man. He was 100% about doing the will of the Father. If it was not the Father’s will for him to marry, then it is good that he did not.
 
Jay53 said:
Why would celibate men not be 100% men? What if they just haven’t met a woman they want to be intimate with?
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Hi

I said that we are not discussing here men or women with a problem. Is it good to be phsychological to create problems when there are no problem? I don’t think it is good to do that.

It is like behaving like a crippled man when nature has endowed us with two heathy legs. One should be proud to use both the legs, if one has them.

I think you are perhaps talking about one who should have been social with the people but he was not; this is sort of a being handicapped when one is not. A man with a problem might be a problematic and impaired man; we are not discussing.

Jesus was a social man, I don’t think , we was known to have any such problem.

I would therefore say: let Jesus be a fully man (a 100% man) at least.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks
 
Jay53 said:
BTW, IMHO, this is one of THE most ridiculous things I have read on these forums. 😃
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Ditto that…

I always remember Jesus words in (Luke 20:34-36):
“Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.”
 
Do real men play an active part in the raising of their children?
 
Kaninchen said:
Do real men play an active part in the raising of their children?
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Hi

Yes, real men and real women must play an active part and also pray to God AllahYHWH that their children are raised well physically, morally and spiritually to be a useful person in the society and in the world at large.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

Yes, real men and real women must play an active part and also pray to God AllahYHWH that their children are raised well physically, morally and spiritually to be a useful person in the society and in the world at large.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks
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So, real men change diapers/nappies?
 
what a very limited and stilted view of masculinity, how impoverished is this thinking, a man is nothing more than a functioning set of specific bodily organs? I don’t think so
 
puzzleannie said:
what a very limited and stilted view of masculinity
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Hi

Kindly ask from Jay53.

I don’t know why this concept of masculinity is so important in Catholicsm, in my opinion.

The Father God is masculin, the Son is masculine, the Holy Spirit is masculine, the Church priest is masculine.

In Islam, we don’t have any gender for God Allah YHWH:

[112:1] بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمَـٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ
[112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:1] اللہ کے نام کے ساتھ جو بے انتہا رحم کرنے والا، بِن مانگے دینے والا (اور) بار بار رحم کرنے والا ہے۔
[112:2] قُلْ هُوَ اللّٰهُ اَحَدٌ‌ۚ‏
[112:2] Say, ‘He is Allah, the One;
[112:2] تُو کہہ دے کہ وہ اللہ ایک ہی ہے۔
[112:3] اللّٰهُ الصَّمَدُ‌ۚ‏
[112:3] ‘Allah, the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:3] اللہ بے احتیاج ہے۔
[112:4] لَمْ يَلِدْ ۙ وَلَمْ يُوْلَدْۙ‏
[112:4] ‘He begets not, nor is He begotten;
[112:4] نہ اُس نے کسی کو جنا اور نہ وہ جنا گیا۔
[112:5] وَلَمْ يَكُنْ لَّهٗ كُفُوًا اَحَدٌ‏
[112:5] ‘And there is none like unto Him.’
[112:5] اور اُس کا کبھی کوئی ہمسر نہیں ہوا۔

Unquote

The Creator creates and does not need a partner for that; does not need a gender.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks
 
I’m still not clear as to whether real men in Islam change diapers.
 
A real man does his duty and provides for the needs of those he is responsible for.

For married men, this means being a supportive husband and, if God sees fit, father.

For single men, this means serving those who may not be his blood family, but he serves them nonetheless.

For priests, this means serving his parishioners or community.

A real man does his duty.
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

Kindly ask from Jay53.

I don’t know why this concept of masculinity is so important in Catholicsm, in my opinion.

The Father God is masculin, the Son is masculine, the Holy Spirit is masculine, the Church priest is masculine.

In Islam, we don’t have any gender for God Allah YHWH:

[112:1] بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمَـٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ
[112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:1] اللہ کے نام کے ساتھ جو بے انتہا رحم کرنے والا، بِن مانگے دینے والا (اور) بار بار رحم کرنے والا ہے۔
[112:2] قُلْ هُوَ اللّٰهُ اَحَدٌ‌ۚ‏
[112:2] Say, ‘He is Allah, the One;
[112:2] تُو کہہ دے کہ وہ اللہ ایک ہی ہے۔
[112:3] اللّٰهُ الصَّمَدُ‌ۚ‏
[112:3] ‘Allah, the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:3] اللہ بے احتیاج ہے۔
[112:4] لَمْ يَلِدْ ۙ وَلَمْ يُوْلَدْۙ‏
[112:4] ‘He begets not, nor is He begotten;
[112:4] نہ اُس نے کسی کو جنا اور نہ وہ جنا گیا۔
[112:5] وَلَمْ يَكُنْ لَّهٗ كُفُوًا اَحَدٌ‏
[112:5] ‘And there is none like unto Him.’
[112:5] اور اُس کا کبھی کوئی ہمسر نہیں ہوا۔

Unquote

The Creator creates and does not need a partner for that; does not need a gender.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks
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I wasn’t even asking this with regard to Jesus - there’s another thread for that discussion. In fact, that’s probably where I read this view. I just saw this statement and didn’t know if it was only YOUR view or if all Muslims think this. If it’s all Muslims, it would shed some light on the whole ‘women have to cover up concept’, because in that case men probably are looking at women in a sexual way if they haven’t married yet, because they’ll have to be on a quest to prove their manhood before someone thinks they’re not quite 100% man.

Here’s some corrollaries: Is there an age by which a man must be married before he’s considered not 100% man? Are women considered not 100% women unless they have children? If a man becomes a widower, must he remarry or be considered not 100% man, or would that be only if he doesn’t have children with his late wife?

I really would love to hear from other Muslims to find out if this is a universal Muslim thought or just one person’s. I am just so completely amazed/flabbergasted/dumbfounded that there may be more people in the world that actually think this. :eek:
 
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