Real Presence & "Fundamentals" by Ott

[jim1130]

Peace.

Last night, while re-reading “The Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” by Dr. Ludwig Ott, this statement caught my attention (paraphrased, and I pray that I am paraphrasing correctly): The use of the words “body” and “blood” by Christ in John 6 (and the synoptic Gospels, too), are not figurative because nowhere else in the Bible are the words “body” and “blood” used/interpreted figuratively. Is this correct? If this is incorrect then what are the OT and/or NT chapters and verses that show that the words “body” and/or “blood” are used figuratively?

I want to use this defense against non-Catholics who deny the Real Presence, but want to make sure that I (1) interpreted Ott’s statement accurately and (2) am not embarrassed and refuted.

Please help.

Peace.

 

[marysson]

I believe the term “eat the flesh” is actually used in another way in the Bible. Do a search and you can find it in an online Bible.

The things is that it still doesn’t help the fundies argument, because to “eat someone’s flesh” in the other context means to insult and abuse them. Jesus would then have been saying “Only those that abuse me will be saved,” which is silly.

 

[jim1130]

marysson:

I believe the term “eat the flesh” is actually used in another way in the Bible. Do a search and you can find it in an online Bible.

The things is that it still doesn’t help the fundies argument, because to “eat someone’s flesh” in the other context means to insult and abuse them. Jesus would then have been saying “Only those that abuse me will be saved,” which is silly.

Ahh, that’s right! I forgot about that latter part! I wish I had the book with me here at work.

 

[Chipper]

jim1130:

Peace.

Last night, while re-reading “The Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” by Dr. Ludwig Ott, this statement caught my attention (paraphrased, and I pray that I am paraphrasing correctly): The use of the words “body” and “blood” by Christ in John 6 (and the synoptic Gospels, too), are not figurative because nowhere else in the Bible are the words “body” and “blood” used/interpreted figuratively. Is this correct? If this is incorrect then what are the OT and/or NT chapters and verses that show that the words “body” and/or “blood” are used figuratively?

I want to use this defense against non-Catholics who deny the Real Presence, but want to make sure that I (1) interpreted Ott’s statement accurately and (2) am not embarrassed and refuted.

Please help.

Peace.

Hhhmmm. Maybe his statement requires more clarification. Since the Bible does talk about “Blood of the grapes”. ( I am not refuting transubstantion).

Chipper

 

[mosher]

Chipper:

Hhhmmm. Maybe his statement requires more clarification. Since the Bible does talk about “Blood of the grapes”. ( I am not refuting transubstantion).

Chipper

I think that it is an issue of original languages and cannot be sufficiently answered by an english translation of the Bible.

 

[JSmitty2005]

I don’t have the book. Is there any way you could type out exactly what it says if it’s not too long?

 

[javelin]

mosher:

I think that it is an issue of original languages and cannot be sufficiently answered by an english translation of the Bible.

I completely agree. You would need to find the greek words used by John that have been translated “body” and “blood”, and then find all instances of those same greek words, comparing their literal or symbolic usage.

Unfortunately, I do not have the resources necessary to do this kind of research. I would love to hear the results if someone else does, though. =)

Peace,
javelin

 

[jim1130]

JSmitty2005:

I don’t have the book. Is there any way you could type out exactly what it says if it’s not too long?

Actually, I am at work. I would have to do this tomorrow. Jim

 

[Pug]

Let us know which verse to follow in John 6. For example, the word for “flesh” that comes to my mind there is sarx. That is the same base word that shows up in the marriage thing about two being one flesh.

I am thinking about John 6:52 where they argue about how can this guy give us his flesh to eat.

Are you really thinking about the word “chew” or “gnaw” and not the word “flesh”?