Real Presence in the Anglican/Episcopalian Eucharist?

[Dropper]

GoLatin:

Do you think that when this Priest said the Anglican “Holy Eucharist”, that he might have actually confected the Eucharist, since the Anglicans do have words of consecration, and this man was a genuinely ordained Catholic Priest? I guess that it would depend on his intent, right?

I FULLY accept the invalidity of Anglican orders, I just would like your opinions on this.

Thank you!

It would indeed depend on his intent I think. It would also depend on the matter. I don’t know if Anglican communion bread is made the same way as our Hosts are…

It’s possible that he did indeed confect the Eucharist.

 

[pgoings]

the 1552 Prayer Book does not present anything remotely resembling an acceptable Eucharistic theology

This may well be true, but the 1552 Prayer Book was only in use for seven years. And while* Apostolicae Curae* addressed the defects of the Edwardine Ordinal, it said nothing about the later revisions.

 

[GoLatin]

Everyman:

What is the Catholic Church’s stance on what happens at an Episcopalian mass? Is it seen as an apostolic church and, therefore, containing a transubstatiated Host?

I’m attending an Episcopalian church tomorrow; and I’m curious as to what the Catholic Church would say about what goes on there. I know some Anglicans believe in Real Presence and some do not.

Also, I read of a couple of times Hilaire Belloc worshiped in an Anglican church. Like Westminster Abbey, for instance. Is that okay?

-Everyman

I believe that Hilaire Belloc was an Anglican who converted to Catholicism. So he most likely visited Westminster Abbey.

 

[GoLatin]

Dropper:

It would indeed depend on his intent I think. It would also depend on the matter. I don’t know if Anglican communion bread is made the same way as our Hosts are…

It’s possible that he did indeed confect the Eucharist.

Some Anglican communion bread is leavened, with who knows what ingredients, and some appears to be like the Catholic Hosts of the Latin Rite, that is small, round, and flat, and made presumably out of wheat and water.

I don’t think that I ever saw this particular Priest do an Anglican “Eucharist” by himself, but from what I experienced in the local Anglican diocese(of which this man became a part), the wafer hosts were generally used, and I believe real wine also.

This Anglican diocese(Quincy IL) is what is sometimes called “Anglo-Catholic”, and they have “Chrism Masses” and also “concelebration” at other times.

I was at a “Chrism Mass” at the Anglican “cathedral”, when I was an Anglican, and received communion there. If this Priest was there(I’m not sure if he was, but he likely was there), and “concelebrated”, do you think that there was a real Catholic Eucharist that day? It is interesting to realise that I may have received Catholic Holy Communion as an Anglican!

 

[Maurelian]

pgoings:

This may well be true, but the 1552 Prayer Book was only in use for seven years. And while* Apostolicae Curae* addressed the defects of the Edwardine Ordinal, it said nothing about the later revisions.

But the Edwardine Ordinal was not revised until the fifth BCP in 1662, and this is specifically addressed by the Curae:

1. This form had, indeed, afterwards added to it the words “for the office and work of a priest,” etc; but this rather shows that the Anglicans themselves perceived that the first form was defective and inadequate. But even if this addition could give to the form its due signification, it was introduced too late, as a century had already elapsed since the adoption of the Edwardine Ordinal, for, as the Hierarchy had become extinct, there remained no power of ordaining.
   Apostolicae Curae
   His Holiness Pope Leo XIII
   On the Nullity of Anglican Orders
   September 15, 1896

1. The same holds good of episcopal consecration. For to the formula, “Receive the Holy Ghost”, not only were the words “for the office and work of a bishop”, etc. added at a later period, but even these, as We shall presently state, must be understood in a sense different to that which they bear in the Catholic rite. Nor is anything gained by quoting the prayer of the preface, “Almighty God”, since it, in like manner, has been stripped of the words which denote the summum sacerdotium.
   Apostolicae Curae
   His Holiness Pope Leo XIII
   On the Nullity of Anglican Orders
   September 15, 1896

 

[pgoings]

But the Edwardine Ordinal was not revised until the fifth BCP in 1662, and this is specifically addressed by the* Curae*

Correct. Which is why many Anglo-Catholics worked to secure the participation of Old Catholics (the “Dutch Touch”) in their ordinations and consecrations. The effect of this is to make much of what* Apostolicae Curae* taught irrelevant to the determination of whether a particular living Anglican clergyman has received valid orders.