Real Presence

[wmscott]

Let me preface by stating that I fully believe in the real presence of Christ in the most Holy Eucharist. My sister in law relayed a story to me the other day that floored me. I do not know why it had such an impact on me other than recently we have had a visiting Priest who, when praying the Eucharistic prayer, can bring tears to a person’s eyes. It is that moving and profound. It was that spiritual, that you felt it. The Priest would be the first to dismiss any credit for moving folks and states it is a prayer and he is an instrument of Christ who works through him.

I am not sure if this is true or not, however, it does have a very thought provoking message. My sister in law told me of a maintenance man at a local Catholic Church who happened to be a Protestant. He was a cheerful and kind person who respected Catholics as he would any other Christian. He had worked there for many years and was asked one day if he would be interested in becoming a Catholic, or why after all these years of working here why he had not become Catholic. He said that he could not in all good conscience because of the Catholic belief in the Read Presence. He went on to say that if Catholics really and truly believed that Christ was truly present in the most Holy Eucharist, why was there only six or eight persons at daily Mass? Where were all of the other Catholics who truly believe in the real presence?

I am not sure if it is just me or does anyone else feel a little stunned after realizing the implications of this man’s comments? I do have what I consider a reasonable answer; however I would be interested in thoughts of those Catholics here. I will give what I think is a good answer later.

Peace.

 

[FightingFat]

I often think if we really took it deadly seriously, we would all run screaming from the Church!

 

[wmscott]

I often think if we really took it deadly seriously, we would all run screaming** from** the Church!

From or To?

 

[FightingFat]

Well put it this way, imagine the people we see every Sunday sauntering up the aisle to receive Him…What do they believe, and even if they do say they really believe, is it translated from thought into their actions?

Forget genuflection before you receive, you should be prostrate on the floor before God shouldn’t you?

Lex orandi, lex credandi!

 

[wmscott]

Well put it this way, imagine the people we see every Sunday sauntering up the aisle to receive Him…What do they believe, and even if they do say they really believe, is it translated from thought into their actions?

Forget genuflection before you receive, you should be prostrate on the floor before God shouldn’t you?

Lex orandi, lex credandi!

I know that while approaching the Most Holy Eucharist my posture is with hands as if prayer, my thoughts are on Christ and His saving grace, when it is my turn I bow and receive Christ in me Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity then cross myself, same with the cup. Then it is time to give thanks and reflect.

I can speak for everyone else who are “sauntering up the aisle to receive Him”. God knows what is in their hearts and that is between them. I for one am not going to judge them. I have all I can do to try and work on my own salvation.

 

[promethius]

He went on to say that if Catholics really and truly believed that Christ was truly present in the most Holy Eucharist, why was there only six or eight persons at daily Mass? Where were all of the other Catholics who truly believe in the real presence?

It seems like a legitimate point until we consider the Christ and the history of Judaism:

First, the Christ: He did not have His apostles around Him at all times. He sent them out and charged them with a mission to be His Body in the world. In the same way, the very word “mass” originates from the latin “Missa” for “sending out”. We are sent out, and charged just as Christ charged His disciples, to go forth to love and serve the Lord. If we took this man’s position to it’s natural extreme, we would never do anything except Eucharistic adoration, but Christ, by His actions, demonstrated that while times of extreme devotion are necessary, they are by no means expected at all times.

Second, the history of Judaism favors a Single day of SPECIAL obligation to worship. Christ is our King, and as a good King we do Him homage on His day, just as the jews worship in particular on the Sabbath. If we are able, we should attend daily mass as well, but it is not required in our kingdom, particularly if it would affect the living capability of the church. The people must have jobs to eat and to provide charity for others according to their means. In other words, God is and always has been smart enough to provide for the fact that we can’ts spend 100% of our human lives in front of the Eucharist.

That being said, every catholic should rejoice at the chance to adore the Eucharist, and in between times when they have that chance, they should be devout in their prayer and spiritual life. This poor gardener thinks that because we have the real presence in mass that we don’t have the Holy Spirit with us between masses, and that simply is not correct.

 

[promethius]

Forget genuflection before you receive, you should be prostrate on the floor before God shouldn’t you?

I always genuflect. Being prostrate on the floor would be nice, but it isn’t practical for the mass and it would prevent people from coming to the Eucharist within the time alloted.

Further, while I genuflect, I try not to judge others, since that isn’t my place. If I find I can’t watch others receive without harbouring judgement against them, I turn my head or bow my eyes. The time before and after communion is for meditation on and perfect union with the Christ… NOT for sampling distaste at my fellow parishoners.

 

[wmscott]

It seems like a legitimate point until we consider the Christ and the history of Judaism:

First, the Christ: He did not have His apostles around Him at all times. He sent them out and charged them with a mission to be His Body in the world. In the same way, the very word “mass” originates from the latin “Missa” for “sending out”. We are sent out, and charged just as Christ charged His disciples, to go forth to love and serve the Lord. If we took this man’s position to it’s natural extreme, we would never do anything except Eucharistic adoration, but Christ, by His actions, demonstrated that while times of extreme devotion are necessary, they are by no means expected at all times.

Second, the history of Judaism favors a Single day of SPECIAL obligation to worship. Christ is our King, and as a good King we do Him homage on His day, just as the jews worship in particular on the Sabbath. If we are able, we should attend daily mass as well, but it is not required in our kingdom, particularly if it would affect the living capability of the church. The people must have jobs to eat and to provide charity for others according to their means. In other words, God is and always has been smart enough to provide for the fact that we can’ts spend 100% of our human lives in front of the Eucharist.

That being said, every catholic should rejoice at the chance to adore the Eucharist, and in between times when they have that chance, they should be devout in their prayer and spiritual life. This poor gardener thinks that because we have the real presence in mass that we don’t have the Holy Spirit with us between masses, and that simply is not correct.

Thanks Paul for this explanation, I had never thought of it in this context, it makes since.

 

[cymonk]

Thanks Paul for this explanation, I had never thought of it in this context, it makes since.

Nor I. Thanks!

 

[Flame4]

Well yes. Its funny that this man could see how amazing it is (or in his case would be) to have the real presence. We, myself included, do not often realize how great the Eucharist is! As well, what kind of example are we setting for other people by claiming the real presence (which I believe in of course) but not turning up for mass?(

 

[cecilia97]

Let me preface by stating that I fully believe in the real presence of Christ in the most Holy Eucharist. My sister in law relayed a story to me the other day that floored me. I do not know why it had such an impact on me other than recently we have had a visiting Priest who, when praying the Eucharistic prayer, can bring tears to a person’s eyes. It is that moving and profound. It was that spiritual, that you felt it. The Priest would be the first to dismiss any credit for moving folks and states it is a prayer and he is an instrument of Christ who works through him.

I am not sure if this is true or not, however, it does have a very thought provoking message. My sister in law told me of a maintenance man at a local Catholic Church who happened to be a Protestant. He was a cheerful and kind person who respected Catholics as he would any other Christian. He had worked there for many years and was asked one day if he would be interested in becoming a Catholic, or why after all these years of working here why he had not become Catholic. He said that he could not in all good conscience because of the Catholic belief in the Read Presence. He went on to say that if Catholics really and truly believed that Christ was truly present in the most Holy Eucharist, why was there only six or eight persons at daily Mass? Where were all of the other Catholics who truly believe in the real presence?

I am not sure if it is just me or does anyone else feel a little stunned after realizing the implications of this man’s comments? I do have what I consider a reasonable answer; however I would be interested in thoughts of those Catholics here. I will give what I think is a good answer later.

Peace.

I’ve heard this type of thing before…that if we truly believe in the Real Presence we should fall on our faces on entering the church building.

There’s a point to that. Why don’t more Catholics show reverence for Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament? My thoughts:

1. poor, POOR catechesis…bordering on CRIMINALLY bad (I’m not bitter)
2. we take for granted what is familiar to us
3. secular society exerts pressure to focus on the self rather than the sacred
   …and the biggie…
4. badly done liturgy which no longer points toward the Eucharist but toward the “community”

Thanks be to God, these problems do not exist in all parishes.

 

[Philthy]

My sister in law told me of a maintenance man at a local Catholic Church who happened to be a Protestant. He was a cheerful and kind person who respected Catholics as he would any other Christian. He had worked there for many years and was asked one day if he would be interested in becoming a Catholic, or why after all these years of working here why he had not become Catholic. He said that he could not in all good conscience because of the Catholic belief in the Read Presence. He went on to say that if Catholics really and truly believed that Christ was truly present in the most Holy Eucharist, why was there only six or eight persons at daily Mass? Where were all of the other Catholics who truly believe in the real presence?

Lots of reasons, many of them lame ones. But so what? Either he accepts the teaching or he doesnt, and if he doesnt, would it really matter how many Catholics were there? For example, the daily Mass at a church I attend has probably 200 people there every day. Will we expect him to leave his job and go there? His excuse is…an excuse.

I am not sure if it is just me or does anyone else feel a little stunned after realizing the implications of this man’s comments?

Implications? Perhaps you should state what you believe the implications are.

I do have what I consider a reasonable answer; however I would be interested in thoughts of those Catholics here. I will give what I think is a good answer later.

There are plenty of places where devout Catholics gather routinely to receive the Holy Eucharist. He visits none of them because, in the one place that he happens to work only a few gather there. His reasoning only provides a basis for not attending the particular Parish he works in - it provides no reason for him not attending a parish that has more people attending daily Mass and yet he isnt even bothering to look in other parishes. I conclude from this that despite the implication that if more people attended daily Mass he would attend, that, in fact, his decision to not become Catholic is very mundane: he doesnt believe in the Catholic faith, and he seems to be attempting to blame his rejection of the faith on Catholics rather than on himself.

Blessings!

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

Let me preface by stating that I fully believe in the real presence of Christ in the most Holy Eucharist. My sister in law relayed a story to me the other day that floored me. I do not know why it had such an impact on me other than recently we have had a visiting Priest who, when praying the Eucharistic prayer, can bring tears to a person’s eyes. It is that moving and profound. It was that spiritual, that you felt it. The Priest would be the first to dismiss any credit for moving folks and states it is a prayer and he is an instrument of Christ who works through him.

I am not sure if this is true or not, however, it does have a very thought provoking message. My sister in law told me of a maintenance man at a local Catholic Church who happened to be a Protestant. He was a cheerful and kind person who respected Catholics as he would any other Christian. He had worked there for many years and was asked one day if he would be interested in becoming a Catholic, or why after all these years of working here why he had not become Catholic. He said that he could not in all good conscience because of the Catholic belief in the Read Presence. He went on to say that if Catholics really and truly believed that Christ was truly present in the most Holy Eucharist, why was there only six or eight persons at daily Mass? Where were all of the other Catholics who truly believe in the real presence?

I am not sure if it is just me or does anyone else feel a little stunned after realizing the implications of this man’s comments? I do have what I consider a reasonable answer; however I would be interested in thoughts of those Catholics here. I will give what I think is a good answer later.

Peace.

This is something that has bothered me for a long time now. I desperately want to attend daily mass, but find my broken nature telling me that I “cant”. I know that I could adjust my schedule a tiny bit and be able to do it, yet I dont. I cannot explain why, other than the devil whispering misleading things in my ear. I absolutely understand what this man is saying, but if I took the words and actions of some parishioners as being the Catholic Church, I would never have converted (well, reverted in a way).

One of the reasons that I say that I cant make it to daily mass is that my work schedule wont allow it. It is quite difficult to get breakfast, work, lunch, and dinner in a timely fashion and still include daily mass. It would be much easier if more parishes went back to the 6am daily mass.

I’ve heard this type of thing before…that if we truly believe in the Real Presence we should fall on our faces on entering the church building.

There’s a point to that. Why don’t more Catholics show reverence for Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament? My thoughts:

1. poor, POOR catechesis…bordering on CRIMINALLY bad (I’m not bitter)
2. we take for granted what is familiar to us
3. secular society exerts pressure to focus on the self rather than the sacred
   …and the biggie…
4. badly done liturgy which no longer points toward the Eucharist but toward the “community”

Thanks be to God, these problems do not exist in all parishes.

1. My catechesis was incredibly poor, but well-meaning. I learned almost all I know of the Church from private study.
2. agree… 100%
   3)agree 100%
   4)Agree 50%. I do not feel that the LITURGY has an emphasis on “evangelism” or pushing the Gospel. I do not say this to insinuate that the mass downplays the Gospel, but to say that the liturgy is still focused on WORSHIP, not evangelization, which is as it should be. I think that the way the liturgy is emphasized by some priests can lead to a more evangelical, preaching, style instead of the worship of God. I think that one of the main reasons people have this problem today is the downplaying in secular society (which has been brought, sadly, into the Church) of self sacrifice. We have a culture of “What can I get out of this” instead of “what can I give to this”. We need the Church and the laity to begin emphasizing the self-sacrifice of individuals for the greater glory of God. We need, as a Catholic counter-culture, to begin making small daily sacrifices that we perform to magnify Gods Glory and shine His light into the world.

Perhaps if 10% of Catholics today (Myself especially) began to make those small sacrifices that would allow us to attend daily Mass, we might bring about the conversion of MANY… Something to think about anyway.

FSC

 

[wmscott]

Implications? Perhaps you should state what you believe the implications are.

I guess what I was trying very poorly to say is that it really hit me that because of my strong belief in the real presence how poorly and neglectful I may have been in not making the utmost efforts to be in the physical presence of Christ as often as I can. Sorry if I am being a little confusing in my explanation.

 

[cecilia97]

This is something that has bothered me for a long time now. I desperately want to attend daily mass, but find my broken nature telling me that I “cant”. I know that I could adjust my schedule a tiny bit and be able to do it, yet I dont. I cannot explain why, other than the devil whispering misleading things in my ear. I absolutely understand what this man is saying, but if I took the words and actions of some parishioners as being the Catholic Church, I would never have converted (well, reverted in a way).

One of the reasons that I say that I cant make it to daily mass is that my work schedule wont allow it. It is quite difficult to get breakfast, work, lunch, and dinner in a timely fashion and still include daily mass. It would be much easier if more parishes went back to the 6am daily mass.

1. My catechesis was incredibly poor, but well-meaning. I learned almost all I know of the Church from private study.
2. agree… 100%
   3)agree 100%
   4)Agree 50%. I do not feel that the LITURGY has an emphasis on “evangelism” or pushing the Gospel. I do not say this to insinuate that the mass downplays the Gospel, but to say that the liturgy is still focused on WORSHIP, not evangelization, which is as it should be. I think that the way the liturgy is emphasized by some priests can lead to a more evangelical, preaching, style instead of the worship of God. I think that one of the main reasons people have this problem today is the downplaying in secular society (which has been brought, sadly, into the Church) of self sacrifice. We have a culture of “What can I get out of this” instead of “what can I give to this”. We need the Church and the laity to begin emphasizing the self-sacrifice of individuals for the greater glory of God. We need, as a Catholic counter-culture, to begin making small daily sacrifices that we perform to magnify Gods Glory and shine His light into the world.

Perhaps if 10% of Catholics today (Myself especially) began to make those small sacrifices that would allow us to attend daily Mass, we might bring about the conversion of MANY… Something to think about anyway.

FSC

I agree. But…having gone from the supposedly “typical” parishes where few genuflect, people talk loudly in the church building, and little notice or respect is paid to our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament to a parish where everyone in the building, Catholic or not, is asked (out loud) to kneel while the consecrated Hosts are moved from the Tabernacle to the adoration chapel, and bells are rung as our priest processes slowly to the chapel holding the ciborium carefully with a humeral veil, and most heads bow as the Lord passes by…this has shown me for the first time in my life that our physical reverence is a powerful sign for others. Visitors to our parish stop and ask “what was that all about?”, “why do you do that?”, and older ladies approach parishioners with tears in their eyes to say they have not seen those practices since childhood. So, the reverence of liturgical actions can, in a secondary way, be a strong lesson on the Real Presence.

 

[Murphs10]

He went on to say that if Catholics really and truly believed that Christ was truly present in the most Holy Eucharist, why was there only six or eight persons at daily Mass? Where were all of the other Catholics who truly believe in the real presence?

One could ask the protestant that if he really believed in God why doesn’t he consecrate his life to Christ through celibacy and spend his life on his knees in prayer? If he really believes in God how can he do anything else but worship Him at all times? His way of thinking goes both ways and exposes its flaw. The Apostles did not demand the members of the Chruch gather every day.

 

[wmscott]

One could ask the protestant that if he really believed in God why doesn’t he consecrate his life to Christ through celibacy and spend his life on his knees in prayer? If he really believes in God how can he do anything else but worship Him at all times? His way of thinking goes both ways and exposes its flaw. The Apostles did not demand the members of the Chruch gather every day.

good point, thanks