Real presence

[Ontheway]

Traditional Catholicism believes in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Sacred Host during the sacrifice of the Mass. Is this belief held in your parish? Are these terms used during the Mass? What are your views on the Real Presence?

 

[CHCL]

It is a held belief by all Catholics in the world that the Blessed Sacrament is the true presence of Christ. It really isn’t debated or there is no debate about this.

 

[Pianofish]

Belief in the real presence is not specific to “traditional” Catholicism but to all Catholics. The Church is clear on this.

From the Council of Trent:

“If anyone says that the Body and Blood together with His whole Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore the whole Christ, is truly, really and substantially contained in the Sacrament of the Most Holy Eucharist, but says that Christ is present in the Sacrament only as in a sign or figure or by His power, let him be anathema.” (Session 13, can.1)

From the Catechism:

1376 - The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring: “Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and proprerly called transubstantiation.”

1377 - The Eucharistic presence of Christ begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the Eucharistic species subsist. Christ is present whole and entire in each of the species and whole and entire in each of their parts, in such a way that the breaking of the bread does not divide Christ.

There should be no parish or Catholic that argues that the host is merely symbolic. In these cases, those folks should be pointed to the Catechism for clarification.

 

[Ontheway]

Belief in the real presence is not specific to “traditional” Catholicism but to all Catholics. The Church is clear on this.

From the Council of Trent:

From the Catechism:

There should be no parish or Catholic that argues that the host is merely symbolic. In these cases, those folks should be pointed to the Catechism for clarification.

You are right to point out that the Cathechism and or cathachesis would be beneficial to some of us.

 

[Shea96]

It’s fundamental. As a Catholic, you are obligated to believe this. One who does not, to my understanding, should not receive and should seek out a priest/spiritual director to assist them in their understanding.

 

[thistle]

Traditional Catholicism believes in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Sacred Host during the sacrifice of the Mass. Is this belief held in your parish? Are these terms used during the Mass? What are your views on the Real Presence?

You cannot be a Catholic without believing in the Real Presence. It is heresy for any Catholic not to believe it.

 

[zab]

Traditional Catholicism believes in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Sacred Host during the sacrifice of the Mass. Is this belief held in your parish? Are these terms used during the Mass? What are your views on the Real Presence?

Catholics believe in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Sacred Host not only during the sacrifice of the Mass, but He remains present in the consecrated Host (Hosts) which are kept in the tabernacle. Yes, I do believe that the consecrated Sacred Host is the Real Presence of Jesus. Our parish has perpetual adoration of the Blessed Sacrament and other Eucharistic devotions including First Friday Devotion with Benediction and Exposition. Also, we have a Corpus Christi procession down the streets surrounds our Church and stopping, praying and adoring at 4 or 5 altars prepared in front of homes of parishioners who live nearby. Procession takes almost two hours.

 

[Glacies]

The Real Presence of Our Lord is what makes our churches matter. They are not just nice buildings where people like to gather together, but rather in them the Creator of the universe chooses to abide and waits us to visit Him. We should be aware of the very direction of the nearest church where the Blessed Sacrament is located. St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori assures that the time spent in adoration of the Eucharist will be the most profitable of our lives. Blessed Henry Suso tells that Jesus Christ hears the prayers of the faithful with more certainty in the Real Presence than elsewhere. According to St. Jean-Baptiste-Marie Vianney we should consider the time spent with the Divine Sacrament as the happiest of our lives.

See Visits To The Most Blessed Sacrament And To The Blessed Virgin Mary by St. Alphonsus for more information.

 

[WillyAL]

It is a held belief by all Catholics in the world that the Blessed Sacrament is the true presence of Christ. It really isn’t debated or there is no debate about this.

Belief in the real presence is not specific to “traditional” Catholicism but to all Catholics. The Church is clear on this.

It’s fundamental. As a Catholic, you are obligated to believe this. One who does not, to my understanding, should not receive and should seek out a priest/spiritual director to assist them in their understanding.

You cannot be a Catholic without believing in the Real Presence. It is heresy for any Catholic not to believe it.

While I’m sure that most Catholics will claim to believe in the Real Presence, I bet that, in an anonymous poll where everyone answered honestly, you’d be surprised at the number who in fact do not.

 

[thistle]

While I’m sure that most Catholics will claim to believe in the Real Presence, I bet that, in an anonymous poll where everyone answered honestly, you’d be surprised at the number who in fact do not.

If its an anonymous poll how would know?? Baseless speculation.

 

[Ontheway]

While I’m sure that most Catholics will claim to believe in the Real Presence, I bet that, in an anonymous poll where everyone answered honestly, you’d be surprised at the number who in fact do not.

Which raises a question of how would most of those attending Mass know about real presence. People of my generation (pre-Vatican II) know about it, but what about the millennials or their parents?

 

[WillyAL]

If its an anonymous poll how would know?? Baseless speculation.

I’m not real sure you know how polls work. Most polls are anonymous. That’s one way to encourage honest answers. And just because YOU are uncomfortable with my assertion does not make it baseless speculation.

 

[CB_Catholic]

While I’m sure that most Catholics will claim to believe in the Real Presence, I bet that, in an anonymous poll where everyone answered honestly, you’d be surprised at the number who in fact do not.

Not if it is worded correctly and theological jargon is not used. I don’t know a single Catholic who does not believe that the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ (but there may be some). But they may not know the meaning of “real presence” or “transubstantiation”.

That was the trouble with the infamous poll done some years ago that claimed Catholics did not believe in it. They didn’t understand the wording, it was later determined.

If a parish priest is preaching otherwise, he needs reported to the Bishop immediately.

 

[CB_Catholic]

Which raises a question of how would most of those attending Mass know about real presence. People of my generation (pre-Vatican II) know about it, but what about the millennials or their parents?

My millennial grandchildren and their parents were taught it in their religious education classes whether CCD classes or Catholic schools. Why do you think they weren’t? My grandchildren go to Adoration at lest monthly as part of their religious ed classes in another Diocese. Their Pastor had a Eucharistic Adoration Chapel built and they have Perpetual adoration. The kids in my parish attend Exposition and Adoration. In fact, just about every parish in this part of the diocese has Adoration some time during the week, and a few have Perpetual Adoration.

We are not as uneducated about this as people seem to be implying.

 

[babochka]

Which raises a question of how would most of those attending Mass know about real presence. People of my generation (pre-Vatican II) know about it, but what about the millennials or their parents?

How did people of your generation learn about it?

I assume it was in the same way that people of the current and previous generation learned about it. They learn through formal religious education classes in the parish, and informal religious education in the home and parish. Through the Mass - week after week, the priest says “Take, eat, this is my body.” He genuflects before the blessed sacrament. People genuflect and show other forms of reverence in church. In a practicing Catholic family, this is going to lead to discussions about why we do these things in church. In our family, when we go up for Communion, we tell the kids that it is time to receive Jesus. Certain Holy Days (Corpus Christi, for example) lend themselves to homilies about the real presence. Certain readings also lend themselves to such homilies.

I went to Catholic school from the mid 70’s through the late 80’s. This was a time that is often derided for poor catechesis. While I’ll admit that some of the moral teachings of the Church were sometimes not clearly taught, the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist was clear. It was taught unambiguously.

Whether people believe in it or not it up to them.

 

[otjm]

While I’m sure that most Catholics will claim to believe in the Real Presence, I bet that, in an anonymous poll where everyone answered honestly, you’d be surprised at the number who in fact do not.

That might depend more on how the poll was stated than on their actual belief.

We have had about 2 generations of poor (to describe it politely) catechesis. People may or may not know the technical term of transubstantiation, but for you or I to determine that they “don’t believe” is to overstep the bounds of any authority we may think we have. That is in God’s hands.

That is not to say we have no duty to catechize.

There have been polls taken about what people believe or don’t believe; and a long time ago it was addressed by one of the CA apologists; and he came up with something of a different answer than the polls did. Throwing around the word “heresy” may make one feel quite right; in fact, it can come across as self justifying, superior, and sometimes even smug. We need to not go there. It was not until the Middle Ages or later that the term “transubstantiation” was even used; so care needs to be taken when using that as the marker of a belief or lack of it.

 

[malphono]

I went to Catholic school from the mid 70’s through the late 80’s. This was a time that is often derided for poor catechesis. While I’ll admit that some of the moral teachings of the Church were sometimes not clearly taught, the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist was clear. It was taught unambiguously.

Whether people believe in it or not it up to them.

IMO, you were lucky. While my primary and secondary studies were completed before 1970, my higher education was during that dreadful decade. It was without question a liturgical wasteland, the effects of which have persisted to the present.

In any case, let me say that the higher education experience was just as dreadful. I vividly recall more than one priest (some of whom were seminary “professors” no less) absolutely denying the Real Presence. The flavor of the time was the “family meal” bit. That mantra may have abated somewhat in the past 20+ years, but it hasn’t gone away.

 

[otjm]

My millennial grandchildren and their parents were taught it in their religious education classes whether CCD classes or Catholic schools. Why do you think they weren’t? My grandchildren go to Adoration at lest monthly as part of their religious ed classes in another Diocese. Their Pastor had a Eucharistic Adoration Chapel built and they have Perpetual adoration. The kids in my parish attend Exposition and Adoration. In fact, just about every parish in this part of the diocese has Adoration some time during the week, and a few have Perpetual Adoration.

We are not as uneducated about this as people seem to be implying.

Your grandchildren are reaping the results, which started in the 90’s, of getting back to properly catechizing.

However, it is extremely well documented that catechesis pretty much went into the toilet (and then someone flushed) in the early 1970’s, when the Baltimore Catechism was summarily thrown out and what replaced it didn’t have as much flavor as Pablum. It was an unmitigated disaster, and has left us with about two generations who know little of their faith. It was the age of having children cut out paper lambs and paste cotton balls on them, along with gooey commentary about sheep and not much more; and cutting out paper butterflies and coloring them.

Not absolutely everywhere did this occur, but it is well documented that it occurred all over the place. Rote memorization went out the window, and what was replaced was "feelings’ (and every time I hear that word, I recall that sappy lounge lizard song… ).

If your children and grandchildren missed that circus, consider yourself - and them - twice blessed. But one anecdote does not the case prove.

 

[WillyAL]

Not if it is worded correctly and theological jargon is not used. I don’t know a single Catholic who does not believe that the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ (but there may be some). But they may not know the meaning of “real presence” or “transubstantiation”.

That was the trouble with the infamous poll done some years ago that claimed Catholics did not believe in it. They didn’t understand the wording, it was later determined.

I’m not familiar with the poll you refer to. I’ll try to look that up. I’m sure I’d find it interesting.

Anyway…I frequently hear the argument: “If they understood they would believe. Anyone who does not believe just doesn’t understand.” I think there are plenty of people who fully understand but are not convinced and therefore don’t believe.

That said, maybe I don’t correctly understand either. Here is my understanding: During the Mass, the priest speaks the words of the consecration. At that time (or around that time ) the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ. The accidents of bread and wine remain but it is, in fact, no longer bread and wine. It has become, through the process of transubstantiation, the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ.

That is my understanding of what the Church means when it refers to the Real Presence. I suspect that is also the understanding of most Catholics (which I am not, by the way.) I also believe that, while most Catholics say they believe this, many really do not - mainly because they find it to be illogical, nonsensical, and completely without evidence.

 

[babochka]

Your grandchildren are reaping the results, which started in the 90’s, of getting back to properly catechizing.

. Rote memorization went out the window, and what was replaced was "feelings’ (and every time I hear that word, I recall that sappy lounge lizard song… ).

Rote memorization still isn’t widely used in catechesis, but apparently since the 90’s, kids are doing just fine, being properly catechized and all.

I’m not against rote memorization. It has its place alongside other methods of learning, but memorization alone will fail to engage a child or adult deeply on a spiritual level.

My own children have been involved with the Catechesis of the Good Shepherd, which is a scriptural and liturgical based approached to catechesis for children as young as three. It is based on the educational methods of Maria Montessori (a physician and devout Catholic, by the way) and pretty profoundly teaches the faith while engaging the heart of each child. I much prefer this method to a traditional or modern classroom-based method of catechesis, particularly for young children. I’m certain that any 6-year-old who has gone through the program understands the real presence, even if they can’t describe it to you in theological terms.