Real Wine?

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Why we just receive Body in our local Church? why?
The species (bread and wine) are consecrated separately. When someone dies, blood stops flowing and it is, for all practical purposes, separated from the body. However, at the fraction rite, if you notice, the priest places a small particle of the Sacred Host into the chalice filled with the Precious Blood. This is the moment when the Body and Blood are reunited, the Resurrection, if you will.

Thus, when we go to Holy Communion, we receive the Body, Blood, Soul and Divnity of the living God, Jesus Christ. We partake of the Glorified Christ. Thus, we receive the Living God, whose Body and Blood are contained in the Sacred Host. While the fuller sign is to receive under both consecrated species, we are just as much receiving the Body and Blood of Christ by consuming the Sacred Host only as we would be had we also gone to receive the Precious Blood.
 
The species (bread and wine) are consecrated separately. When someone dies, blood stops flowing and it is, for all practical purposes, separated from the body. However, at the fraction rite, if you notice, the priest places a small particle of the Sacred Host into the chalice filled with the Precious Blood. This is the moment when the Body and Blood are reunited, the Resurrection, if you will.

Thus, when we go to Holy Communion, we receive the Body, Blood, Soul and Divnity of the living God, Jesus Christ. We partake of the Glorified Christ. Thus, we receive the Living God, whose Body and Blood are contained in the Sacred Host. While the fuller sign is to receive under both consecrated species, we are just as much receiving the Body and Blood of Christ by consuming the Sacred Host only as we would be had we also gone to receive the Precious Blood.
I believe so,
but our local Church does not have wine(Blood).
 
I believe so,
but our local Church does not have wine(Blood).
We are not required to receive under both species. In fact, Redemptionis Sacrarmentum, the authoritative document on the liturgy promulgated by the Holy See notes that:
[101.] In order for Holy Communion under both kinds to be administered to the lay members of Christ’s faithful, due consideration should be given to the circumstances, as judged first of all by the diocesan Bishop. It is to be completely excluded where even a small danger exists of the sacred species being profaned.187 With a view to wider co-ordination, the Bishops’ Conferences should issue norms, once their decisions have received the recognitio of the Apostolic See through the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, especially as regards “the manner of distributing Holy Communion to the faithful under both kinds, and the faculty for its extension”.188
[102.] The chalice should not be ministered to lay members of Christ’s faithful where there is such a large number of communicants189 that it is difficult to gauge the amount of wine for the Eucharist and there is a danger that “more than a reasonable quantity of the Blood of Christ remain to be consumed at the end of the celebration”.190 The same is true wherever access to the chalice would be difficult to arrange, or where such a large amount of wine would be required that its certain provenance and quality could only be known with difficulty, or wherever there is not an adequate number of sacred ministers or extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion with proper formation, or where a notable part of the people continues to prefer not to approach the chalice for various reasons, so that the sign of unity would in some sense be negated.
So, there are many valid reasons as to why your parish may not be adminditering the Precious Blood. But, again, please let me stress that we are not cheated out of anything if only the Sacred Host is distributed. You are still receiving the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. You are still receiving the complete and entire Christ.
 
We are not required to receive under both species. In fact, Redemptionis Sacrarmentum, the authoritative document on the liturgy promulgated by the Holy See notes that:

So, there are many valid reasons as to why your parish may not be adminditering the Precious Blood. But, again, please let me stress that we are not cheated out of anything if only the Sacred Host is distributed. You are still receiving the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. You are still receiving the complete and entire Christ.
I read and begin to ask about everything which I did not understand and which filled me with anxious. :confused:
benedictgal, I wanted tell you now that I thank you very, very much.
 
I read and begin to ask about everything which I did not understand and which filled me with anxious. :confused:
benedictgal, I wanted tell you now that I thank you very, very much.
You’re welcome. I know that there can be some confusion about things, especially when someone says that it is preferable to receive both species according to the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, but, then, in the document that I quoted, there are parameters regulating when this can and cannot be done.

It is not as though the Church is speaking out of both sides of her mouth on this one. The teachings of the Church have been that Christ is fully present in one species as He is in the other.

My parish will distribute under both species at certain Masses and not at others because there are not enough EMHCs to help with the chalice. But, the folks at the Masses where the Precious Blood is not given do not lose out on anything because we receive the full and complete Christ.

Don’t be afraid to ask. We learn by asking.👍
 
The ability for the Bishop to permit mustum for communing the laity is an accommodation for individuals with celiac disease coupled with other disorders which require medication.

Severe celiac patients can’t even receive the species of the Body safely with the low-gluten hosts; for them, communion under the species of the Blood alone is permitted. Likewise for persons with their jaws wired shut, communion under the species of the Blood alone is permitted.

Many of those are also under medical care with medications that even tiny amounts of alcohol are notable; mustum has negligible alcoholic content (By law, less than 0.5% by volume, often less even than that).

I myself have been on meds that made the accidents of wine in the Blood profound. Dizzy and lightheaded from only a sip… and know that there are others far more sensitive than I. The permission for mustum is a pastoral provision that enables some of the profoundly sick and injured to receive safely.

I can see permission being granted for use of mustum in prisons, too, and in places where alcohol is forbidden by law.
thank you for the info on mustum, I had never heard of it before. This sounds like a very good idea and alternative.
I have had intestinal problems myself, but I now use prilosec every day and that helps with all foods.
Thanks again:)
 
Just a point of clarification
benedictgal, I’m going to add another point of clarification and raise you an observation. 😃

First, the clarification.
at the fraction rite, if you notice, the priest places a small particle of the Sacred Host into the chalice filled with the Precious Blood. This is the moment when the Body and Blood are reunited, the Resurrection, if you will.
While it is true that liturgically that moment can symbolize the Resurrection, and the reunited Body and Blood, it is not true that this is the moment when the actual Body and Blood of Christ are reunited. Perhaps this is not what you meant, but I think it needed clarification. Thus when a priest consecrates the Body of Christ, what becomes present along with the Body is the Blood of Christ, joined and united at that moment. If a priest doesn’t consecrate the wine, nor commingles them, it doesn’t change the fact that the consecrated bread is (and always was) the Body and the Blood of the living Christ, united.
bendictgal:
Thus, when we go to Holy Communion, we receive the Body, Blood, Soul and Divnity of the living God, Jesus Christ.
It was because of this phrasing, following the above, that I thought a clarification was in order. When you say “thus. . .” it seems like you are saying that the reason we receive the entire Christ when we receive one species is because of that commingling you described above. But that isn’t the reason, as I explained. The reason is that Christ is now actually alive, and so wherever his body is, so is his blood.

VC
 
Now an observation.
bendictgal:
We do not take; we receive. Even though we’ve spent a great deal in this thread discussing this particular use of the word, I believe that we should use the terms that the Church uses.
It seems to me that a distinction can and should be made between the concept of “taking” and the use of the word “take”.

Leaving aside any question of the laity self communicating (i.e. picking up the Eucharist and giving it to oneself) which is strictly prohibited, I think the point is that one’s disposition should never be one of entitlement or “grasping” but rather one of humble reception. But this disposition of receptivity is something that both priests and laity must have, and must have whether the word used to describe Holy Communion is “take” or “receive.”

It doesn’t seem to me that the use of the word “take” is immediately an invalid expression. Perhaps it is not the best one in order to communicate the interior disposition we should have, but it doesn’t mean that one doesn’t have that interior disposition. The Latin word often used in regard to Holy Communion is accipio (and used at the Last Supper). Accipio seems to have senses of meaning, and seems to be translatable as “take” or “receive”. For instance see Fr. Z’s discussion of it here. Note in this discussion that the Apostles “take/receive”, that is take in the passive sense. So, even priests who take communion (i…e use the word “take” and also physically take it themselves, without being given it by another person at the altar) still should take in the passive sense.

This active taking versus passive taking seems to me present in English. The use of the word “take” itself doesn’t tell us the interior disposition of the person. Thus we can take without violently grasping something – when we “take this woman as your wife” surely the interior disposition is passive, i.e. “receptive taking”. Also when someone offers their hand and I “take” it – again it is a receptive disposition. In fact, in both, the basic sense of accipio is conveyed, to accept something offered. (I might add that the use of the word “receive” can also have nuances, and not necessarily be joined to a *receptive *disposition – as when the Queen receives you.)

The point I’m trying to make is that in the past, and today, I think people legitimately *could *use the word “take” in relation to Holy Communion (but it might not convey things as precisely as we would wish). One may certainly find translations of Aquinas where accipe is translated as “take” in relation to Holy Communion. Even the English version of the Compendium of the Catechism uses the phrase “take Holy Communion” (349).

You quoted from the Lauda Sion, which was translated asAnd whoe’er of Him partakes,
severs not, nor rends, nor breaks:
all entire, their Lord receive.
Whether one or thousand eat,
all receive the selfsame meat,
nor do less for others leave.
But the Latin is:A sumente non concisus,
Non confractus, non divisus
Integer accipitur.
Sumit unus, sumunt mille;
Quantum isti, tantum ille:
Nec sumptus consumitur.

I’m not a Latin scholar (those who are please chime in!) but it seems to me that *sumente, sumit, sumunt, and sumptus *come from the root sumo - which, in my Latin dictionary, is translated as “to take, to take hold of, to take for use” etc.

I also want to point out that Cardinal Arinze mentions a distinction, and so does the *Linementa *on the Eucharist:
  1. Ancient sources indicate that communion was not taken but received, an act symbolizing the Sacrament’s meaning, that is, a Gift received with adoration.
But both the Cardinal and the Bishops seem to be pointing primarily to the action. In other words, we don’t take (even priests, when not concelebrating) because we are given the Eucharist by another.

But, secondarily, the word “receive” seems better to convey the the meaning of the Eucharist. The Church seems to use (almost exclusively) “receive” in English. I myself do. But I don’t think it is mandated, nor do I think that those who use the word “take” do so in error, if the proper meaning is conveyed and they have the proper understanding. It seems to me, sometimes, that people use the phrase “take communion” in the passive “take/receive” sense of accipio.

Just something to consider in all of this, perhaps.
VC

(p.s. Just to note again, I myself use “receive” and one certainly can’t go wrong by using it. I think it the safer course, and conveys things more accurately)
 
benedictgal, I’m going to add another point of clarification and raise you an observation. 😃

First, the clarification.

While it is true that liturgically that moment can symbolize the Resurrection, and the reunited Body and Blood, it is not true that this is the moment when the actual Body and Blood of Christ are reunited. Perhaps this is not what you meant, but I think it needed clarification. Thus when a priest consecrates the Body of Christ, what becomes present along with the Body is the Blood of Christ, joined and united at that moment. If a priest doesn’t consecrate the wine, nor commingles them, it doesn’t change the fact that the consecrated bread is (and always was) the Body and the Blood of the living Christ, united.

It was because of this phrasing, following the above, that I thought a clarification was in order. When you say “thus. . .” it seems like you are saying that the reason we receive the entire Christ when we receive one species is because of that commingling you described above. But that isn’t the reason, as I explained. The reason is that Christ is now actually alive, and so wherever his body is, so is his blood.

VC
The consecration of the species occurs separately. Jesus notes that “this is My BODY” and “this is My BLOOD”. Having separate consecrations for each species indicates the moment of the sacrifice. When the priest prays the concluding doxology and raises up the Body and Blood of Christ, he offers these to the Father.

At the moment of the fraction, when the priest places a tiny piece of the Sacred Host into the chalice filed with the Precious Blood, both species are reunited, hence we are present at the Resurrection. My parochial vicar mentions this in his homily on a frequent basis. I do not belive him to be in error.
 
The consecration of the species occurs separately. Jesus notes that “this is My BODY” and “this is My BLOOD”. Having separate consecrations for each species indicates the moment of the sacrifice.
hi benedictgal, you are entirely correct regarding the above – we do locate the moment of sacrifice of the Mass at the separate consecrations. However, there is no time* that the body and blood of Christ, really and substantially present in the Eucharist, are not united together.

This is the doctrine of concomitance. By the power of the sacrament, the bread is changed into the body of Christ only. However, because of natural concomitance, i.e. the natural connection that Christ’s body has with his blood, the blood of Christ is also made present at that moment. Because Christ is actually alive, now, whenever his body becomes present his blood is joined with it.

Trent puts it this way:
And this faith has ever been in the Church of God, that, immediately after the consecration, the veritable Body of our Lord, and His veritable Blood, together with His soul and divinity, are under the species of bread and wine; but the Body indeed under the species of bread, and the Blood under the species of wine, by the force of the words; but the body itself under the species of wine, and the blood under the species of bread, and the soul under both, by the force of that natural connexion and concomitancy whereby the parts of Christ our Lord, who hath now risen from the dead, to die no more, are united together;
Please ask your PV about it. I think he’ll say the same.👍

VC

*The one exception would have been if the Eucharist had been consecrated when Christ’s body was actually separated from his blood, i.e. when he was in the tomb.
 
I’m sorry if this is slightly off topic, but something that has been bothering me lately is when does the bread and wine become the body/blood. I always thought it was once you receive it and “swallow”. Also, is it wrong to chew the bread?

God Bless,

Jessica
You’d probably choke if you tried to swallow it whole. The nun in grade school told us to fold it up with our tongues, then swallow it. Doesn’t work very well.
 
The nun in grade school told us to fold it up with our tongues, then swallow it. Doesn’t work very well.
That’s actually what I usually do…works best if a cross is imprinted into the Host. Works better if you are also receiving the Precious Blood. Either way, I totally agree that chewing is just as licit.
 
Let us never refer to the blood of Christ as “wine.” It is not wine. Never once have I drank wine in church.
 

As I have stated before, I am new at this and I have heard others use the word take when I thought it was was recieve and apparently I got a little confused and mixed up, so forgive me if it did no come out right. I am not going to say anyone is Jumping down my throat or anything but I am learning and it is going to take some time , I dont feel like a Catholic but I am. So I would in all respect ask for everyone to cut me a little slack.
Don’t worry about it. In my experience, most Protestants seem to say take communion. It would be natural for you to use that phrase. We look at the Eucharist very differently, as the actual Body and Blood of Christ, not just a symbol of the Last Supper. We get the incredible gift of Jesus Christ when we receive Communion. What you said was no more than a little slip of the tongue, and now you know. We can stop discussing this, in my opinion.
 
I still not quiet understand why we can not take Body and the Blood together in our Church ?:confused:
😊
The pastor can decide such, but then only the priests may commune the faithful. It’s called intinction. Historically, it was done about 2x a year, tho’ apparently not in much of the US.

The Byzantine Rite and Coptic Rite Churches intinct as the norm. The priest puts the Body (it’s little cubes he’s cut just before liturgy; the Byzatine Rite uses leavened bread, and this is permitted by Rome) into the Blood. The people are communed with a spoon; a piece of the precious body is taken out, and then dropped into the communicant’s mouth. (The Melkites sometimes instead use strips, and dip them at the moment of communion, but that’s an exception.) The Chaldean and Maronite Churches both permit intinction as well, tho’ it follows the roman mode of dipping.

The thing is, ONLY a priest is permitted to place the Body into the Blood.
 
The pastor can decide such, but then only the priests may commune the faithful. It’s called intinction. Historically, it was done about 2x a year, tho’ apparently not in much of the US. .
I don’t see how this applies to roselily’s question/comment. For Roman Catholics, intinction is not the norm, and there is no *a priori *reason that both the bread and wine/Body and Blood can be celebrated at Mass (again with no need to refer to intinction). In fact, the GIRM clearly suggests benefits for celebrating Eucharist using both species. Unless roselily is Eastern Rite (in which case, sorry, I read through previous comments but must have missed that).
 
I don’t see how this applies to roselily’s question/comment. For Catholics, intinction is not the norm, and there is no a priori reason that both the bread and wine/Body and Blood can be celebrated at Mass (again with no need to refer to intinction). In fact, the GIRM clearly suggests benefits for celebrating Eucharist using both species.
However, Redemptionis Sacramentum, in th section I have quoted in a previous post, also suggests valid reasons why this may not be feasible. Thus, while there is merit in the distribution of both species, it is not required. Were that the case, it would be next to impossible to do this at a Papal Mass were there are thousands and thousands of communicants.
 
However, Redemptionis Sacramentum, in th section I have quoted in a previous post, also suggests valid reasons why this may not be feasible. Thus, while there is merit in the distribution of both species, it is not required. Were that the case, it would be next to impossible to do this at a Papal Mass were there are thousands and thousands of communicants.
I never said it was required.

Of course there are valid reasons it may not be feasible (I never said or suggested otherwise).

I think the point is, what’s best? And if we’re not doing what’s best/preferred, are the reasons really legitimate or just a matter of convenience? Or unreflective habit?
 
I never said it was required.

Of course there are valid reasons it may not be feasible (I never said or suggested otherwise).

I think the point is, what’s best? And if we’re not doing what’s best/preferred, are the reasons really legitimate or just a matter of convenience? Or unreflective habit?
You may not have said that it was required, but, as I read your posts, you make it seem as though it is through references. A parish should not be accused of not employing this practice for convenience sake. As an EMHC, I have seen quite a few instances where folks just do not know how to handle the Precious Blood, which once included spillage. People will try to self-intinct and others who are supposed to be trained as EMHCs may not know how to properly dispose of the Precious Blood. There was one instance when we ran out of the Precious Blood and one of the servers went into the sacristy and retrieved a cruet from the fridge.

There are just too many risks.
 
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