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Jerusha
Guest
The granting of “honorary whiteness” to those who convert, and the relegation to non-citizenship in Mormon-dominanted areas to those who do not.
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Jerusha
Guest
Thinking we are descendants of “degenerate Jews”, nothing less than conversion will suffice. Assimilation, again. Even though, within my cultural heritage, I have found a plausible explanation that can reconcile the BOM with reality, the Mormons I have come in contact with have been obsessed with homogenizing culture to THEIR standards, degrading all of my values and everything I am, and the cultural heritage that gives them answers. Again, if that is not a peculiar form of anti-Semitism, I don’t know what is. The analogy is amazing.
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Wildgraywolf
Guest
God lives on a planet? Mormons believe this?
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Jerusha
Guest
You steal and distort and twist our history and take it for your own, and then try to sell it back to us in a way that degrades us and destroys our cultural heritage and shames us.
Then, you accuse us of killing your “prophet”, when, in all possibility, it was his own followers who were responsible.
Then, you accuse us of killing your “prophet”, when, in all possibility, it was his own followers who were responsible.
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Jerusha
Guest
Sorry for the fragmented posts. I have not yet resorted to the tried and true compose, cut and paste method so many people use for long responses. 
Just as pseudo-Christian anti-Semitism degenerated into pagan Naziism, so also could some radical Mormons do the same. I use the term MormoNazi for that reason.
Just as pseudo-Christian anti-Semitism degenerated into pagan Naziism, so also could some radical Mormons do the same. I use the term MormoNazi for that reason.
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Imconfused
Guest
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Casen
Guest
RE: The ultimate goal is conversion with anyone, but Native Americans, more so.
Jerusha,
I’m puzzled that you would consider LDS missionary efforts to American Indians racist. Since we believe that we are the restored church of Jesus Christ we try to share the gospel with everyone including the American Indians. If we excluded them from our proselytizing efforts you might have an argument but treating them like every other group we proselyte to is clearly not racist. Is this any different than Catholic missionary efforts throughout the centuries?
RE: You steal and distort and twist our history and take it for your own, and then try to sell it back to us in a way that degrades us and destroys our cultural heritage and shames us.
Sorry, I don’t understand this comment.
RE: Then, you accuse us of killing your “prophet”, when, in all possibility, it was his own followers who were responsible.
I’m not sure what you’re talking about here either. Is this a reference to Joseph Smith’s murder in Carthage Jail? Were there American Indians involved? Brigham Young believed Joseph was killed by Masons. That Indians were involved I’ve never heard or read.
RE: I am sure he was Mormon. If he weren’t, he would have been made very uncomfortable.
Actually I had several friends attend BYU who were not members. If they were uncomfortable they certainly didn’t show it. And considering one of them went on to BYU graduate school I assume he must have liked the BYU experience somewhat.
RE: The granting of “honorary whiteness” to those who convert, and the relegation to non-citizenship in Mormon-dominated areas to those who do not.
Sorry, you lost me again. Perhaps you could explain this as well.
Jerusha,
I’m puzzled that you would consider LDS missionary efforts to American Indians racist. Since we believe that we are the restored church of Jesus Christ we try to share the gospel with everyone including the American Indians. If we excluded them from our proselytizing efforts you might have an argument but treating them like every other group we proselyte to is clearly not racist. Is this any different than Catholic missionary efforts throughout the centuries?
RE: You steal and distort and twist our history and take it for your own, and then try to sell it back to us in a way that degrades us and destroys our cultural heritage and shames us.
Sorry, I don’t understand this comment.
RE: Then, you accuse us of killing your “prophet”, when, in all possibility, it was his own followers who were responsible.
I’m not sure what you’re talking about here either. Is this a reference to Joseph Smith’s murder in Carthage Jail? Were there American Indians involved? Brigham Young believed Joseph was killed by Masons. That Indians were involved I’ve never heard or read.
RE: I am sure he was Mormon. If he weren’t, he would have been made very uncomfortable.
Actually I had several friends attend BYU who were not members. If they were uncomfortable they certainly didn’t show it. And considering one of them went on to BYU graduate school I assume he must have liked the BYU experience somewhat.
RE: The granting of “honorary whiteness” to those who convert, and the relegation to non-citizenship in Mormon-dominated areas to those who do not.
Sorry, you lost me again. Perhaps you could explain this as well.
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Jerusha
Guest
These perceptions are derived from personal experience, and the experiences of others. If you have not encountered such opinions before, it is because of a limited social circle. I wish I could explain further, but it gets into personal information, and that is against the forum rules.
It might be well for people at BYU to gather information about attitudes towards Mormonism from among other cultural groups, in order to see what part they play in anti-Mormon prejudice, and how they might change their behavior and attitudes in order to reduce intercultural friction.
It might be well for people at BYU to gather information about attitudes towards Mormonism from among other cultural groups, in order to see what part they play in anti-Mormon prejudice, and how they might change their behavior and attitudes in order to reduce intercultural friction.
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Casen
Guest
RE: *The racism is in thinking that they are God’s gift to the Native American
Oh, what a great statement. I love it. If you leave it just at that, it says it all.*
I don’t get this at all. We share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with all people in any country that will let us in. How are LDS missionary efforts to American Indians any different than Catholic missionary efforts?
If you believe the RCC is God’s church I would expect you to share the “Good News” with everyone. We believe the same so we share the gospel with everyone as advocated in the scriptures.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
(Matthew 24:14)
I’m baffled that a Christian would consider sharing the gospel as racist!
Oh, what a great statement. I love it. If you leave it just at that, it says it all.*
I don’t get this at all. We share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with all people in any country that will let us in. How are LDS missionary efforts to American Indians any different than Catholic missionary efforts?
If you believe the RCC is God’s church I would expect you to share the “Good News” with everyone. We believe the same so we share the gospel with everyone as advocated in the scriptures.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
(Matthew 24:14)
I’m baffled that a Christian would consider sharing the gospel as racist!
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TOmNossor
Guest
I have quite a bit. I also called Catholic Answers and then emailed some of the more blatant corrections to them (at their request).
But a polemic serves its purpose even if the facts are quite skewed to my knowledge (and by my observation nothing changed). And no we are not talking about different interpretations of doctrine. In some instances CA choose to partially quote two sources to set up a contradiction. This is pretty bad!!!
Charity, TOm
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Casen
Guest
Jerusha,
So you claim my church is racist, anti-semitic and Nazi-like and when I ask for some examples or documentation you say:
These perceptions are derived from personal experience, and the experiences of others… I wish I could explain further, but it gets into personal information, and that is against the forum rules.
That’s really rich. Since **secret personal experiences ** are the ultimate trump card in any debate I guess you win. I concede defeat… bye.
So you claim my church is racist, anti-semitic and Nazi-like and when I ask for some examples or documentation you say:
These perceptions are derived from personal experience, and the experiences of others… I wish I could explain further, but it gets into personal information, and that is against the forum rules.
That’s really rich. Since **secret personal experiences ** are the ultimate trump card in any debate I guess you win. I concede defeat… bye.
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Jerusha
Guest
My reading of Thomas Sharp’s writings indicates that the Masons were not only offended by the theft of Masonic rituals, and appalled by the lawlessness that the Mormons brought to the area, etc, but they were also advocates for the Indians in the area (his references to the “original settlers” of the area was a euphemism).
I witness by being the best person I can be, not by constantly pushing my belifs off on other people.
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Casen
Guest
RE: I witness by being the best person I can be, not by constantly pushing my belifs off on other people.
I applaud your for striving to be a good person but the Bible advocates a more proactive approach to sharing the gospel.
Was Paul “pushing” his beliefs on other people when he preached to the gentiles? How about Peter? Do you condem Catholic missionary efforts?
I applaud your for striving to be a good person but the Bible advocates a more proactive approach to sharing the gospel.
Was Paul “pushing” his beliefs on other people when he preached to the gentiles? How about Peter? Do you condem Catholic missionary efforts?
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Jerusha
Guest
When the subject comes up, when asked, I share. Anything else is impolite. That is the way I was raised. 
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Imconfused
Guest
Oh, when I said that, I was not thinking about religion. My college degree is in cultural anthropology and Jerusha’s ability to sum up how “white” people approach indigenous is wonderful. So concise and speaks directly to the point. Wonderful. My reference has nothing to do with LDS or Catholicism. It is simply a great line for my work and I may quote it often in the future. Completely off your thread by the way, but I wanted to express my gratitude to Jerusha. That is all.
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Jerusha
Guest
Thank you for your comment. You may quote it, althought I don’t think it is a unique statement. It certainly a given that that attitude is often seen among other “whites” in this country. It is not an exclusively Mormon value-- but since Mormonism is uniquely American----(Quickly drawing Venn diagrams in my mind)
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Imconfused
Guest
Thank you, I will quote it. Frequently, only those “in the know” do to experience can sum up a situation so succinctly. I wish you well in your endeavors with exploring your heritage. For yes, to a certain extent, Native Americans have received a heritage peppered with injustice and sins of others. Don’t let them become your sins as well.
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Jerusha
Guest
Very difficult to achieve balance in that area. To not respond to racism with racism, to not respond to injustice with injustice, to not complain “persecution!!!” when it is one’s own behaviors that are causing the problems------etc etc. Forgiveness is the key— especially difficult when it means having to take action against the unrepentant offender in order to protect oneself.
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Imconfused
Guest
This, then, is the path God has given you to acheive perfect holiness. We all have a Passion we have to live to get there. Just remember along the way, that all of this changes, the persecuted and persecutee, the victim and perpetrator. But God never changes. Good luck and may God bless your particular passion.
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Jerusha
Guest
Thanks. 
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