Reason and Violence Incompatible to God?

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I have been showing my (Protestant) sister the articles on the Pope’s speech and the Muslim response. She takes issue with the Pope’s words that violence is against God’s nature, that violence is unreasonable and therefore not Godly behavior. She points out that God, in the Old Tetsament, was a God of wrath – frequently, and therefore violence IS in His nature.

I really don’t know how to respond to that, and I would like her to come to respect our Catholic faith and this Pope.

What about the Pope’s words, then?
 
Somebody please correct me if I am mistaken, but I thought the Pope was specifically discussing that Reason is opposed to using violence to force conversion to a religion.

Jesus does command us to “turn the other cheek” if someone offends us (through violence or otherwise) but, the church also recognizes that it may be necessary for a state to engage in a “just war” to defend itself against attack, after other peaceful options for settling differences are exhausted.
 
Obviously we can defend ourselves…but it would be dumb to force someone to convert, because it wouldn’t save them if they didn’t really commit to it in their heart.

We usually try to mission peacefully in countries first, and only fought back in the past if they attacked us. Even then, we often just accepted martyrdom.

The first crusades were allegedly defensive, the Muslims were attacking our Byzantine brothers (though, the later crusades…the ones less religious in nature and more political…were really contrived)

We burned heretics at the stake because they broke their commitment to the Church and threatened to spread error to others…but we usually didnt burn pagans and jews who had never been catholics in the first place.
 
I have been showing my (Protestant) sister the articles on the Pope’s speech and the Muslim response. She takes issue with the Pope’s words that violence is against God’s nature, that violence is unreasonable and therefore not Godly behavior. She points out that God, in the Old Tetsament, was a God of wrath – frequently, and therefore violence IS in His nature.

I really don’t know how to respond to that, and I would like her to come to respect our Catholic faith and this Pope.

What about the Pope’s words, then?
First, pray for the Holy Spirit to guide you and give you the words.

Then ask her to read the Pope’s entire speech. It’s a long-ish magazine article in length. If that’s out of the question, then nothing she says or thinks about the subject should be taken seriously, because anything she says can’t reflect anything but her personal prejudice.

If she tries the “it’s both of them together causing the problem” straw-man argument, you can tell her that’s nonsense becuause she refuses to read the quotation within its context, so she’s refusing to allow fairness. Most Anti-Catholics are just okey-dokey with that, which of course is based on prejudice… but they are usually embarassed to be caught red-handed.

In fact if she expresses any opinion at all without reading the entire speech first, you can point out she’s expressing nothing but an opinion that has no clue what it’s talking about.

However.

Once al Qaeda published its plans to kill the Pope and destroy Rome, they polarized the entire world, whether the world wants to be polarized or not.

Ask her if she supports al Quaeda, the people who brought her 9/11.

If the answer is no, ask if she who she would agree with more:

• The Pope, for showing that religious murder has been called evil for at least 600 years or
• al Quaeda’s plans to murder the Pope as a repayment for calling religious murders evil.

If she goes into the “well not all religions agree on what ‘evil’ means, and they have their own way of doing things over there” dodge you can refer her to the ten commandments. Muslims are to obey the ten commandments. Refer her to the one that covers “murder.” You could also refer her to the part of the Koran that all the self-described “moderate” Muslims are repeating like a mantra “There is no compulsion in religion.” Then you might want to refer her to the myriad parts of Islam that make certain Muslims decide crashing planes into buildings is justified.

If she is Christian, you might want to remind her that Truth is no concept nor abstract, but is in fact a person named Jesus, the Christ, because Jesus is the Messiah. Ask her if she believes that or not. If she doesn’t, maybe she’s Muslim, which could explain the anger.

Ask her who she would rather ask for help with something: OBL or BXVI?

With those answers, you can tell who she agrees with:
The Pope or al Qaeda.

Because al Qaeda and apparently Turkey are threatening to finish the job Mehmet Ali Agca started in 1981, since May the most popular best-seller novel in Turkey has been a novel about a Papal assassination, 2005’s Turkish sell-out favourite was “Mein Kampf” and media are molding public attention against BXVI, showing their Pro-al Qaeda bias over this incident. This is it’s a matter of as grave a concern as anything else al Qaeda threatens.

Jesus said: “You are either with Me or against Me” so there is no sitting on the fence.

Congratulate her on taking her stand.

And if she tries the “well you HAVE to support the Pope, you’re Catholic” stunt, tell her “Then by your idea of logic, YOU MUST support al Qaeda because you’re NOT Catholic.”

Al Qaeda, once again, has made supporting their murder plans a slam-dunk decision for everyone.

As of now, every person on this planet is either for the Pope or for al Qaeda. There is no Switzerland.

You’ve chosen a side and so has she.
 
I see Satan’s favorite trick works as well as ever. I recently heard that the root word behind ‘Satan’ means ‘to divide.’ Very appropriate since that’s his main MO.

Obviously he is doing a very effective job of putting christians and muslims against one another. Thus, I feel it appropriate to point out two mistakes catholics are currently making as regards Islam.

Mistake #1: Muslims are mostly fiendish homicidal monsters.
Come on now. Muslims are human being, made in the image and likeness of God. They have grasped a lot of truth and incorporated it into their faith. Many internally grasp MORE of the truth than the explicit tenets of their faith can take credit for! Like any community of humans, they have some wackos. Like any community of humans, they have a LOT of extremely decent people who deserve or respect and love.

Mistake #2: Islam is not a problem and the jihadis are an aberration that will resolve itself.
Nope. Think about it. We had the example and words of the Son of the Loving God himself to guide us and it has taken us a good 1,900+ years to get to the point where we have a pretty good consensus that God does not want us to start holy wars. Muhammed’s words and example are anything BUT clear on the concept that faith must be freely chosen by each and lived together in peace. Islam has some extremely troubling flaws inherent in the theology and nature of Allah. Islam values submission to the mysterious will of Allah as proclaimed by His Prophet WAY above individual reason. This make Islam structurally vulnerable to wackos taking power since the primary virtue is submission instead of communion. The christian world MUST walk a fine line that balances the recognition that muslims are, like us, GOOD, but fallen with the reality that their ideology contains some sick precepts.

Doubt me? Talk with some muslims. Find ones that are serious about their faith (do they abstain from alcohol, fast during Ramadan and pray three times a day?). Among those, ask what they would do if they learned that a man who blew up a Hindu temple were hiding in their mosque with the imam’s permission. Ask if the 9/11 hijackers are, in their unofficial opinion, most likely in heaven or hell. Ask if they think it is acceptable for muslim countries to expell unbelievers, then ask if it would be OK for the USA to expell muslims (this one is quite revealing!). Ask what they would do if you shared your christian faith with their brother and he converted to christianity (be in a public place with a good escape route for this one, just in case!).

Bottom line is that we need to figure out how to live peaceablly with good folks who hold some inherently unjust and oppressive ideas. That’s gonna be hard.
 
Mistake #1: Muslims are mostly fiendish homicidal monsters.
Mistake #2: Islam is not a problem and the jihadis are an aberration that will resolve itself.
Can you find some data about this? I’m curious about any splits.
Bottom line is that we need to figure out how to live peaceablly with good folks who hold some inherently unjust and oppressive ideas. That’s gonna be hard.
Amen. (See text of BXVI Regensburg University address and fallout).
 
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