Reasonable grounds for spacing births

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AServantofGod

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My husband and I believed that Natural Family Planning was acceptable as a form of, just that, planning a family for any reason. Now, I see that I understood wrongly. Humanae Vitae requires that “there exist reasonable grounds for spacing births, arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances…”

My husband and I began using NFP when we realized that was an acceptable way to plan a family. We have effectively used NFP to limit our family size and felt we were within church teachings. I am so in tuned to my body, and we’re so conditioned to behaving a certain way that I don’t know how else to behave.

I know this sounds strange. I am very confused, but want to do what is right.

Here’s what I don’t understand? It seems that a woman being very regular and very aware of her cyles has been given an extreme burden. Is she supposed to always accept her husband’s advances? Is refusal of relations with her spouse during a fertile period always a sin? And if she has not attempted to become familiar with her body then how can she be prepared to use NFP when there is reasonable grounds?

I would really appreciate your wisdom. Thanks!
 
The problem you face is one faced by many and you put it so eloquently. Here is my :twocents: . I am a promoter with CCL and give talks on the benefits of NFP.

The message that we emphasize in our talks is that God is in control. Charting helps us to see God’s will. My husband and I pray that our desires to be together in the marital union will be for our mutual benefit and for the greater glory of God.

We believe NFP is about being on the same page as spouses for our family and that “page” is God’s page. A recent letter from a man very frustrated with NFP and “the rejection it caused during the fertile phase,” was published in our magazine. When my husband and I read the letter we were sad for the couple. It is about procreation AND unity.

NFP is about accepting each other the way God made us. I am unlike you in that I am very irregular in cycles. I do not know the burden you bear personally. My burden was on the other end of the spectrum. I decided I wanted to have a baby. My husband said yes, too. God said “not yet.” The few times I ovulated neither of us were “in the mood.” So we waited. Our son was conceived at a very simple time when we just let it be up to God.

I would ask if you feel you might be rejecting your husband’s advances are the two of you communicating incompletely in other ways too? I am not judging. I’m asking.

Is God saying, “I have this gift for you now get it together!”?

While I am irregular by average standards I am predictably irregular by my own charts. Meaning I am very in tune with my body and have predicted 27 day cycles and 40 day cycles.

I pray for all couples I come into contact with on this topic that the Holy Spirit be allowed in their bedroom. That might sound really weird but it really is about living the Word of God. To my friends of other beliefs who say, “Do you really think God cares about each and every time you and your husband are together?” My answer, “Yes, He cares about every breath I take so I know He cares about my physical relationship with my husband!”

I hope this helps. Please feel free to PM me if you want.
 
A servant of God: From the sound of your post you appear to be struggling with the size of your family, and I sense under this a struggle with what is sin and what is not sin.

If there is sin within the context of refusing marital relations, do not presume that the sin is on the part of the woman in refusing relations; it may be on the part of the husband for not respecting the woman, the agreement they have reached as to when to have children, and size of family. Or it may be no sin at all, and more a matter of communication breakdown.

The issue of how large or small a family to have is one that can be , or appear to be, quite a heavy burden, fraught with all sorts of questions. Not the least of these is the question of whether, somehow, by not having more children, are we being sinful?

The size of a family is a very personal issue. The fact that for whatever reasons (legitimate; e.g. finances are way too tight, health issues, etc.) it appears that you will have no more children now, and it looks like that might be forever, does not automatically mean that you are not open to life in your relations.

Being open to life means that if the situation that has caused you to say “not now” were to change significantly in the future, you would be open to another child even though it may appear that the circumstances will never change. It means being radically open to God’s direction in your lives, and to the possibility that where God is leading you now may not be where he leads you in 6 months, or 6 years.

You might read the Gospel account in the Synoptics about the rich young man who comes to Jesus and asks what he must do to obtain eternal life. Jesus says that he must follow the Commandments. The young man says he does and has, and it says that Jesus looked on him in love. He then asks Jesus what more he must do, and Jesus tells him to sell his possessions, give to the poor, and come follow Him. The young man goes away sad, because he has many possessions.

This account is often taken to say that he could not get to heaven unless he sold all. But that is not what it says. The young man was seeking after perfection. Christ did not say that perfection was necessary to get to Heaven; what was necessary was to obey the Commandments.

We are called to perfection; we must keep the Commandments. Reading that story and meditating on it might help. So too might some work on your communication, as it sounds as if you are not on the same page, or at least not often enough. If you haven’t done so, you might sign up for a Marriage Encounter. Even if you made an Engagement Encounter, sign up; it is different. It definitely should help in reworking the communication. If you have made one, get your workbooks out and get back to it.
 
Good question.

Answer: pray, pray, pray, pray, pray
As St. Pio would say “Pray, hope and don’t worry.”

Here are a few excellent references to help answer your questions.

A free CD of Christopher West’s CD “Marriage and the Eucharist.” You will love it.
*Catholicity.com *

Christopher West’s .Good News About Sex and Marriage: Anwsers to Your Questions about CatholicTeaching

Life-Giving Love : Embracing God’s Beautiful Design for Marriage – by Kimberly Hahn, Scott Hahn (Foreword)

May God continue to give you many blessings.

:tiphat:
 
Thank you all for you comments and links. What I find happening to me is that I am too aware & thinking too much, and I just don’t know how to change that. Yes, I will definately pray.
 
midgetface:
A recent letter from a man very frustrated with NFP and “the rejection it caused during the fertile phase,” was published in our magazine. When my husband and I read the letter we were sad for the couple. It is about procreation AND unity.
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If you can, please post that article or quote from it more. I’m very interested in reading it.

I asked myself similar questions as the original poster. My husband and I don’t need for NFP currently, but I have wondered about the best way to respond to a spouse’s invitation during fertile times when they have agreed to use NFP. To me, it doesn’t seem right to refuse the other unless there’s a serious reason.

Just as the Church says there should be serious reasons to use NFP, sometimes I suspect there are serious reasons not to use it. I find there are many people within the community of serious Catholics who push NFP on couples who might otherwise have more children. If the husband (or wife) feels rejected during fertile times, I question how good NFP really is for that marriage. I don’t doubt the NFP is better for marriages than contraception, but I do question if, (in many but not all cases) more children might be best.
 
It’s not currently online yet. The letter was published in the latest Family Foundations (April 2005?) published by CCL. Their web site is in the middle of a major update, so hopefully the latest issue will be included soon.

The letter is probably typical of many frustrated husbands or even couples. What I learned from this article is the fact that this couple appear to communicate. It is stated that the wife does not check temperatures. He is frustrated with long abstinence. They both need to talk to discuss their decision of delaying any pregnancy. They both need to open up to each other and demonstrate their devotion to each other There should not be a give and take attitude which is what I read into the letter. There was no mention of children (they’ve been married for 18 years, I think it was). I think in this case, NFP just opened up and demonstrated more fundamental issues in their marriage.

Suggestions were requested from readers to be included in a future issue.
 
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AServantofGod:
Here’s what I don’t understand? It seems that a woman being very regular and very aware of her cyles has been given an extreme burden. Is she supposed to always accept her husband’s advances? Is refusal of relations with her spouse during a fertile period always a sin? And if she has not attempted to become familiar with her body then how can she be prepared to use NFP when there is reasonable grounds?

I would really appreciate your wisdom. Thanks!
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When one spouse approaches the other, the question should not be “do we want to have sex”… the question should be “do we want to have a child”. I think that cuts through it all. Discussing whether or not the time is right to bring another life into the family is acting in accordance with Humanae Vitae. If the answer is no for a serious reason, then both spouses agree to abstain. If the answer is yes, then they do not.
 
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1ke:
When one spouse approaches the other, the question should not be “do we want to have sex”… the question should be “do we want to have a child”. I think that cuts through it all. Discussing whether or not the time is right to bring another life into the family is acting in accordance with Humanae Vitae. If the answer is no for a serious reason, then both spouses agree to abstain. If the answer is yes, then they do not.
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You said, “if the answer is no for a serious reason, then both spouses agree to abstain. If the answer is yes, then they do not.”
However, if the answer is yes, then should the couple then be attempting to have relations during fertile times.

What NFP has done for me is introduced too much thinking into this aspect of my marriage. I’m just too aware of fertile vs. nonfertile times. If one part of me is “comfortable” with our family the way it is even though there is not serious reason not to have more children then am I not always some where within my being trying to avoid fertile times?

I’m just not understanding how to approach this beautiful gift from God without always having my mind on, “this is my fertile time” or “this is not my fertile time”.

I guess I’m just not getting it.
 
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otm:
We are open to life in our relations. That is to say, if God blessed us with another child we would beopen to his will. However, the problem is not that we are not open to life in our relations, but that I’m not open to relations" because I am so aware of my cycles and times of fertility. Does that make any sense?
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otm:
The issue of how large or small a family to have is one that can be , or appear to be, quite a heavy burden, fraught with all sorts of questions. Not the least of these is the question of whether, somehow, by not having more children, are we being sinful?

The size of a family is a very personal issue. The fact that for whatever reasons (legitimate; e.g. finances are way too tight, health issues, etc.) it appears that you will have no more children now, and it looks like that might be forever, does not automatically mean that you are not open to life in your relations.
.
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Yes, we are open to life in our relations. In other words, if God were to bless us with another child we would be open to God’s will for our family. The issue is not that I am not open to to life in our relations, but that I am not open to relations. I am just too aware and thinking of fertile vs nonfertile times. Does this make sense?
 

“there exist reasonable grounds for spacing births, arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances…”​

There is nothing wrong with parents wanting to space their children out in a way where the parents don’t loose their minds.
 
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AServantofGod:
You said, “if the answer is no for a serious reason, then both spouses agree to abstain. If the answer is yes, then they do not.”
However, if the answer is yes, then should the couple then be attempting to have relations during fertile times.

What NFP has done for me is introduced too much thinking into this aspect of my marriage. I’m just too aware of fertile vs. nonfertile times. If one part of me is “comfortable” with our family the way it is even though there is not serious reason not to have more children then am I not always some where within my being trying to avoid fertile times?

I’m just not understanding how to approach this beautiful gift from God without always having my mind on, “this is my fertile time” or “this is not my fertile time”.

I guess I’m just not getting it.
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No, they are not under an obligation to have sex on a fertile day. If it really bothers you, then don’t chart.
 
Originally Posted by AServantofGod
I’m just not understanding how to approach this beautiful gift from God without always having my mind on, “this is my fertile time” or “this is not my fertile time”.

I guess I’m just not getting it.
Click to expand...
I agree with Rascal’s great analysis and synopsis of the article I referenced. The couple was very frustrated with many things in their marriage. NFP exposed the problems and they blamed NFP for causing them. Yes the letter is in “Family Foundations” March-April issue pg. 26. There is also reference to a wonderful article addressing the issue on pg. 22.

I quoted the above from AServantofGod because I, just like you, didn’t used to get it either. I prefer your wording of “reasonable grounds for spacing births,” over “reasonable grounds for using NFP.” If we really get right down to it the wording can be misleading otherwise. Truly, using NFP is a life-long commitment. If I had understood it more I wouldn’t have the past I have.

The questions I used to raise were things like, “Where does God fit into my plan,” intead of “where do I fit into God’s plan.” I mean if we really think about it NFP is useful for all people to be in tune with their body as God made it. (And I don’t just mean women.) Being pregnant is part of using NFP. Breast-feeding is part of NFP. Menopause is also part of it. Infertility (my former trouble) is also part of it. My husband’s constant fertility and my “spaced fertility” are also part of it.

In our talks to engaged couples we talk about contraception as a mental mindset first. I realize now as an adult I had a contraceptive mentality as a teenager. I bought into the idea of, “I am not a baby factory so limiting my family size is the right thing to do.”

People ask us how many children we want and our answer used to be 3. Now we answer much more honestly and say, “however many God wants us to have.” For us that number might only be one. It could also be 11 like my great Aunt.

Charting is helpful but not necessary. I like knowing when our son was conceived. I was only charting the sympto side not temps at the time. Charting can give the mentality of “am I fertile am I not?” quite easily, but only if you let it.

One of my favorite memories of my husband’s love for me was early in our marriage. We were short on money, my husband had been laid off and we were just putting everything in God’s hands. Hubby turned to me with “that look in his eye,” and I said “Honey, I’m fertile right now.” he had a big smile and said “Yep!”

We didn’t conceive a baby then, but my husband found a better job than he had before. The money trickled in. Now it rolls in. And the job? It’s at a hospital with wonderful benefits and an NICU that saved our baby’s life.

Yes, if your husband wants you and you want him and God is in the equation then don’t say no!
 

Lilyofthevalley said:
“there exist reasonable grounds for spacing births, arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances…”
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Lilyofthevalley said:
There is nothing wrong with parents wanting to space their children out in a way where the parents don’t loose their minds.
Click to expand...

Yes, but who is to judge whether another child will drive us nuts beyond recognition? I feel that since I have a very demanding child. But am I not supposed to trust God?
 
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1ke:
No, they are not under an obligation to have sex on a fertile day. If it really bothers you, then don’t chart.
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I’ve never charted I just know; therein lies the dilemma of too much thinking & being too aware.
 
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gardenswithkids:
but I have wondered about the best way to respond to a spouse’s invitation during fertile times when they have agreed to use NFP. To me, it doesn’t seem right to refuse the other unless there’s a serious reason.
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Why is one spouse issuing an invitation during the fertile time if the couple has agreed to use NFP to space kids? --KCT
 
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KCT:
Why is one spouse issuing an invitation during the fertile time if the couple has agreed to use NFP to space kids? --KCT
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That is my question too. Is one spouse wanting to have a baby, or is the person just “throwing caution to the wind” and hoping not to conceive?
 
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KCT:
Why is one spouse issuing an invitation during the fertile time if the couple has agreed to use NFP to space kids? --KCT
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Not both of us are aware of my fertile times; my husband knows only if I tell him, so that puts it on my shoulders.
 
Servant of God, stop stressing so much!!! If God wants you to have another baby, it will happen. I thought I didn’t want any more kids either, but then the next thing you know, Miller Light goes on sale at the Circle K, yada yada yada, you get pregnant unexpectedly. Well, at least that’s how it happens around my house, anyway!
 
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