Reasons for Catholics to have big families

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Suz21 said:
Hey, thanks for answering. I just thought I’d put in something from one of the girls from our group…

"But you see, you’re missing my point – It’s not just petrol that’s getting over. Many many things. Global warming you say, is because we’re utilizing nature the wrong way? Yes, most definitely. But if we were lesser people, WE WOULD HAVE NO NEED TO UTILISE NATURE THE WRONG WAY.

The bottom line is – Each country is BY ITSELF. We have to manage our people , our needs, and our functioning BY OURSELVES. Most European countries have MORE RESOURCES and LESS PEOPLE than we do – SO they can afford to ask their people to produce more babies.
Look around you – Poverty and Ignorance are the biggest evils in this country. These two are single-handedly responsible for the people that come to power, the corruption, crime, communal hatred, terrorism. Education is the only solution.
Do you see this happening? Our country is not in a situation to educate all its children. Hell, it isn’t even in a position to feed and clothe all of them.

I don’t think we can blame EVERYTHING on misuse of funds. We must also admit the possibility that funds MAY NOT EXIST.

The solutions you’ve suggested are definitely well-meant but I don’t think they’re scientifically as well as economically very feasible.
There are problems with this world, and all I intended and still continue to point out is that – We must take EACH AND EVERY decision after asking ourselves this question – ‘ By my next action, am I going to COMPOUND or EASE the problems my world / country is facing today ? ’

This is true social responsibility."
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SUZ,

The bold font wasn’t necessary. The err in your assumption is that population is the problem. There are many alternatives to the way the world’s people live their lives. Fuel source is an example.

Don’t tell me about global warming. I live in Texas.
 
tjm8 said:
Your post reminds me of something I hear a lot but haven’t yet come to believe…

I’m much more inclined to go with “God helps those who help themselves” as in:
  1. We’ve got two kids now and this NFP hasn’t work for us. We can’t have any more until I get a better job.
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What is your point? Artifical contraception is “helping yourself”? Or perhaps, you could be referring to abstinence???
 
I do believe because jesus commanded us believers to do so. Be fruitful and multiply, filling the earth with offspring.
 
BertaSwede said:
I do believe because jesus commanded us believers to do so. Be fruitful and multiply, filling the earth with offspring.
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God is pretty smart. He commanded us to be fruitful and multiply. I do not know anywhere where He said - when you get to this point slow down or stop. Jesus asked that we have faith that the Father will provide. He does ask us to be good stewards. I think he knows the capacity of earth better than we.

The earth is big, the oceans bigger, the solar system much bigger, etc… The universe is fertile. I don’t think we have all that much to worry about.
 
Why are we talking about Catholics having big families?

Has anyone taken a look at the size of Muslims families?
 
Suz21 said:
if we were lesser people, WE WOULD HAVE NO NEED TO UTILISE NATURE THE WRONG WAY.

Actually, any anthropologist or archeologist would tell you this isn’t true. There’s plenty of evidence of polution and used up resources in past civilizations too.
Most European countries have MORE RESOURCES and LESS PEOPLE than we do – SO they can afford to ask their people to produce more babies.

Again, this is simply not true. Most European countries have very few resources of their own. They rely heavily on economic trade. They do not produce enough to sustain themselves, not anywhere near enough.
The U.S. is capable of doing so, but chooses not to for reasons that annoy the dickens out of me.
And last, but not least. NO country should be asking their people to “produce” more or less babies. That is not the business of any government.
Look around you – Poverty and Ignorance are the biggest evils in this country. These two are single-handedly responsible for the people that come to power, the corruption, crime, communal hatred, terrorism. Education is the only solution.
Do you see this happening? Our country is not in a situation to educate all its children. Hell, it isn’t even in a position to feed and clothe all of them.

Such bitterness in the young is such a sad thing. But it isn’t even true. Poverty and ignorance in and of themselves are not evil. In fact, they can be great blessings as exemplified by many a saint in history. A person does not have to be “educated” to know evil when they see it - it’s a matter of a formed conscience. And some of the worst formed consciences I’ve ever had the displeasure to learn of were from highly educated people. Dictators are rarely ignorant people for example.
We must take EACH AND EVERY decision after asking ourselves this question – ‘ By my next action, am I going to COMPOUND or EASE the problems my world / country is facing today ? ’

This is true social responsibility."

No. It’s not. It’s socialism.
What every person must ask themselves before every action is this:
Will what I say and what I do add to the honor and glory of God?
That does not always equal the easier option. And sometimes it means things will become much harder.
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a_cermak said:
Didn’t that exist back in the Middle Ages in Europe?
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No. It didn’t.
 
Perhaps the Reason Catholics have bigger families is that Catholics leave the Family size up to God. Want to know how many children to have? Not one more or one less than God wants you to. IF ones believes in God then one must not only accpet the size of the family he wants us to have but also accpet that he will handle the alleged enviromental and alleged overpopulation problems. God has been a wise steward of all we see for all of eternity. He has done a perfect job of watching over all of it in the past and will undoubtedly do so in the future.
 
The argument I’ve always used: In turning the Miracle of Life into mere breeding (which is what ABC and abortion do), do we know who we kill?

Have we already killed the discoverer of a world food distribution system, so that none go unfed? Have we killed the inventor of the process to control weather and thereby crops and other human situations, including alleged global warming? How much sooner would ALL cancer be irradicated, or is that researcher dead as well? How many scientists, social workers, and other skilled individuals have we put to death through ABC and abortion?

How long will have to wait for solutions, inventions, and discoveries we could already have, if only we had cooperated with God? Will He ever give us those gifts through others again?
 
Wow! I’m really glad so many of you are getting into this…
1ke said:
Here are some articles that may be of interest to you, as they are specifically on the topic of children/family size in India:

lifesite.net/ldn/2006/aug/06081502.html

lifesite.net/ldn/2006/aug/06081601.html

lifesite.net/ldn/2006/aug/06081701.html

lifesite.net/ldn/2006/mar/06030101.html

lifesite.net/ldn/2006/aug/06081803.html

lifesite.net/ldn/2006/aug/06082304.html

lifesite.net/ldn/2006/aug/06082909.html
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Thanks, 1ke for the links… the funny bit is, the international youth conference John Henry Westen spoke at was the one our group attended… and it’s because of his talk that we got into this discussion. 🙂
Shortly thereafter I was asked if I’d be open to going to India to speak at the Divine Retreat Centre, the world’s largest Catholic retreat centre which runs conferences and retreats for hundreds of thousands of people each and every year. Pro-life, with a strong emphasis on openness to life was the topic I was requested to speak on.
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I was scheduled to speak to a couples’ conference, and a youth conference being held at the centre and then another couple of conferences and meetings being held in surrounding areas. A total of nearly 10,000 would hear this message of openness to life.
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LeahInancsi said:
SUZ,

The bold font wasn’t necessary. The err in your assumption is that population is the problem. There are many alternatives to the way the world’s people live their lives. Fuel source is an example.

Don’t tell me about global warming. I live in Texas.
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Um, that wasn’t MY assumption, it was my friend’s… that’s y i put in a diff font.
 
What every person must ask themselves before every action is this:
Will what I say and what I do add to the honor and glory of God?
That does not always equal the easier option. And sometimes it means things will become much harder.
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👍 Yay, Rob’s wife… I totally agree… I think that’s the best way of looking at this issue… or any other, for that matter.
 
Another thought I wanted to ask you’ll about is… if we had less children, would we be more able to help out those children who are already born, and don’t even have the basic necessities.

And what about adoption? Suppose we adopted many kids instead of having many more (using NFP), wouldn’t that give God glory? AND spread His Kingdom by raising them as Catholics?

Sorry, I’m playing devil’s advocate.

Suz
 
estesbob said:
Perhaps the Reason Catholics have bigger families is that Catholics leave the Family size up to God. Want to know how many children to have? Not one more or one less than God wants you to. IF ones believes in God then one must not only accpet the size of the family he wants us to have but also accpet that he will handle the alleged enviromental and alleged overpopulation problems. God has been a wise steward of all we see for all of eternity. He has done a perfect job of watching over all of it in the past and will undoubtedly do so in the future.
Click to expand...
But isn’t this argument getting a little too close to presumption? Testing God, by saying “we’ll do X, Y and Z, pray fervently, and God will take care of whatever problems may arise as a result”.? That’s how it sounds to me. This mindset drives me crazy…maybe it’s just a personal issue I have that I need to work on. but really… YES, I believe children are gifts from God. and EACH and every human being from the moment of conception is a new soul, blessed and willed by God. But even so, the God-given responsibility and prudence of the mother and father can’t just be ignored. Sure, a struggling and impoverished couple’s thirteenth’s child is a gift from God, to be treated as such. But had the couple used NFP more responsibly to have just five or six, would that not be God’s will as well?

We can put everything into God’s hands, and indeed we should. But in doing so we are required – indeed CALLED – to be responsible cooperators with him on this earth, and use His gifts (education, knowledge of the human body, societal awareness, etc.) with prudence.

One other point: Someone else commented that if God doesn’t want you to have any children, then you won’t, even if you aren’t using NFP or ABC. That statement is overly simplistic. I think if God doesn’t want you to have children, He’ll rely on you to first of all prayerfully discern His will in this regard, and then if you discern that He doesn’t want you to have children, educate yourself on how to use NFP. Otherwise, when a man and a woman (who are both fertile) have sex the natural result is a child. that’s just common sense biology.
 
estesbob said:
Perhaps the Reason Catholics have bigger families is that Catholics leave the Family size up to God. Want to know how many children to have? Not one more or one less than God wants you to. IF ones believes in God then one must not only accpet the size of the family he wants us to have but also accpet that he will handle the alleged enviromental and alleged overpopulation problems. God has been a wise steward of all we see for all of eternity. He has done a perfect job of watching over all of it in the past and will undoubtedly do so in the future.
Click to expand...
But isn’t this argument getting a little too close to presumption? Testing God, by saying “we’ll do X, Y and Z, pray fervently, and God will take care of whatever problems may arise as a result”.? That’s how it sounds to me. This mindset drives me crazy…maybe it’s just a personal issue I have that I need to work on. but really… YES, I believe children are gifts from God. and EACH and every human being from the moment of conception is a new soul, blessed and willed by God. But even so, the God-given responsibility and prudence of the mother and father can’t just be ignored. Sure, a struggling and impoverished couple’s thirteenth’s child is a gift from God, to be treated as such. But had the couple used NFP more responsibly to have just five or six, would that not be God’s will as well?

We can put everything into God’s hands, and indeed we should. But in doing so we are required – indeed CALLED – to be responsible cooperators with him on this earth, and use His gifts (education, knowledge of the human body, societal awareness, etc.) with prudence.

One other point: Someone else commented that if God doesn’t want you to have any children, then you won’t, even if you aren’t using NFP or ABC. That statement is overly simplistic. I think if God doesn’t want you to have children, He’ll rely on you to first of all prayerfully discern His will in this regard, and then if you discern that He doesn’t want you to have children, educate yourself on how to use NFP. Otherwise, when a man and a woman (who are both fertile) have sex the natural result is a child. that’s just common sense biology.
 
IsaiahStar said:
But isn’t this argument getting a little too close to presumption? Testing God, by saying “we’ll do X, Y and Z, pray fervently, and God will take care of whatever problems may arise as a result”.? That’s how it sounds to me. This mindset drives me crazy…maybe it’s just a personal issue I have that I need to work on. but really… YES, I believe children are gifts from God. and EACH and every human being from the moment of conception is a new soul, blessed and willed by God. But even so, the God-given responsibility and prudence of the mother and father can’t just be ignored. Sure, a struggling and impoverished couple’s thirteenth’s child is a gift from God, to be treated as such. But had the couple used NFP more responsibly to have just five or six, would that not be God’s will as well?

We can put everything into God’s hands, and indeed we should. But in doing so we are required – indeed CALLED – to be responsible cooperators with him on this earth, and use His gifts (education, knowledge of the human body, societal awareness, etc.) with prudence.

One other point: Someone else commented that if God doesn’t want you to have any children, then you won’t, even if you aren’t using NFP or ABC. That statement is overly simplistic. I think if God doesn’t want you to have children, He’ll rely on you to first of all prayerfully discern His will in this regard, and then if you discern that He doesn’t want you to have children, educate yourself on how to use NFP. Otherwise, when a man and a woman (who are both fertile) have sex the natural result is a child. that’s just common sense biology.
Click to expand...
This is the first time i have ever heard anyone claim trusting in God is testing God. You know it is only in the last 70 years that ANY releigion felt we had the right to interfere with Gods plan for how many children we should have. God has NEVER let me down yet so I think Ill just continue to believe that he, not pharmaseuticals, will do what is best for me.
 
On the lighter side,
we have more children so one day soon we will out number them:D
 
I just want to throw in a quote from Mother Teresa who lived and worked with the poorest of the poor in India herself. If anyone has first-hand experience with their plight, she does. She said, “How can you say there are too many children? That’s like saying there are too many flowers.” Why would she have said that? Did she not care for the poor? Or did she not understand what causes poverty? I doubt it. I think she knew that children are the hope for the future.
 
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