Reasons for Catholics to have big families

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IsaiahStar said:
But isn’t this argument getting a little too close to presumption? Testing God, by saying “we’ll do X, Y and Z, pray fervently, and God will take care of whatever problems may arise as a result”.? That’s how it sounds to me. This mindset drives me crazy…maybe it’s just a personal issue I have that I need to work on.
**Maybe it is…😉 **
We do not expect God to do something for us.
We look at it as accepting whatever God wills. The goal is to make His will ours.
But had the couple used NFP more responsibly to have just five or six, would that not be God’s will as well?

Well I’m sure to leave covered in tomatoes for it, but…
**I think not. At best, y****ou have no way of knowing if that’s God’s will or not because, if used correctly, NFP doesn’t allow His will to be carried out. The couple is saying they do not want to conceive **

One other point: Someone else commented that if God doesn’t want you to have any children, then you won’t, even if you aren’t using NFP or ABC. That statement is overly simplistic. I think if God doesn’t want you to have children, He’ll rely on you to first of all prayerfully discern His will in this regard, and then if you discern that He doesn’t want you to have children, educate yourself on how to use NFP. Otherwise, when a man and a woman (who are both fertile) have sex the natural result is a child. that’s just common sense biology.

I disagree entirely. If God doesn’t want you to have children then you are not going to have children. Period. He is the creator of life.
A fertile man and woman having sex should naturally result in a pregnancy - EVENTUALLY. Most encounters though they do not get pregnant every single time they have sex, even if they are aware of when they are fertile and are trying. In fact, most of the time sex does not equal pregnancy.
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susie_g said:
I just want to throw in a quote from Mother Teresa who lived and worked with the poorest of the poor in India herself. If anyone has first-hand experience with their plight, she does. She said, “How can you say there are too many children? That’s like saying there are too many flowers.” Why would she have said that? Did she not care for the poor? Or did she not understand what causes poverty? I doubt it. I think she knew that children are the hope for the future.
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I remember hearing/reading somewhere that a young woman once asked Mother Teresa what she should do to fight abortion. Mother Teresa said, “have a large family.”

So she did. 🙂

I wish I had a reference.
 
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IsaiahStar:
One other point: Someone else commented that if God doesn’t want you to have any children, then you won’t, even if you aren’t using NFP or ABC. That statement is overly simplistic. I think if God doesn’t want you to have children, He’ll rely on you to first of all prayerfully discern His will in this regard, and then if you discern that He doesn’t want you to have children, educate yourself on how to use NFP. Otherwise, when a man and a woman (who are both fertile) have sex the natural result is a child. that’s just common sense biology.
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I made that statement and it was meant to be very simplistic. If God does not want you to have a child, you will ber sertile. If He allows you to have a choce, then He gives you the ability to learn about NFP or absintence. Abortion and other forms of artificial birth control are not choices that God gives you. Those choices are outside God’s will.

On a personal note: I’m not a big debater who will go into elaborate detail on a subject. I have an opinion on almost everything, but I don’t get a lot of satisfaction of having to prove that I’m right.
 
Originally Posted by IsaiahStar forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*But isn’t this argument getting a little too close to presumption? Testing God, by saying “we’ll do X, Y and Z, pray fervently, and God will take care of whatever problems may arise as a result”.? That’s how it sounds to me. This mindset drives me crazy…maybe it’s just a personal issue I have that I need to work on. *
***Maybe it is…😉 ***
We do not expect God to do something for us.
We look at it as accepting whatever God wills. The goal is to make His will ours.

*But had the couple used NFP more responsibly to have just five or six, would that not be God’s will as well? *

Well I’m sure to leave covered in tomatoes for it, but…
I think not. At best, y*ou have no way of knowing if that’s God’s will or not because, if used correctly, NFP doesn’t allow His will to be carried out. The couple is saying they do not want to conceive ***

One other point: Someone else commented that if God doesn’t want you to have any children, then you won’t, even if you aren’t using NFP or ABC. That statement is overly simplistic. I think if God doesn’t want you to have children, He’ll rely on you to first of all prayerfully discern His will in this regard, and then if you discern that He doesn’t want you to have children, educate yourself on how to use NFP. Otherwise, when a man and a woman (who are both fertile) have sex the natural result is a child. that’s just common sense biology.

I disagree entirely. If God doesn’t want you to have children then you are not going to have children. Period. He is the creator of life.

A fertile man and woman having sex should naturally result in a pregnancy - EVENTUALLY. Most encounters though they do not get pregnant every single time they have sex, even if they are aware of when they are fertile and are trying. In fact, most of the time sex does not equal pregnancy.

Okay. You say the correct use of NFP doesn’t allow God’s will to be carried out. Think through what you are saying. This goes against your previous logic, which is that anything goes when God is creating life. If you’re using NFP correctly to avoid conceiving and God really wants you to conceive, you will anyway. He is the creator of life. Period.

(I would say that yes, He is the creator of life. But no period at the end. The story’s not over. Because He has granted man and woman – His tiny, disobedient, unworthy creation – with the awesome responsibility and gift of being co-creators with Him. What amazing dignity! Not sub-creators. Not tools. CO-creators.)

Please don’t get me wrong. I abhor articifical means of contraception as much as the next orthodox Catholic. A couple should always, always be open to life. NPF used wisely allows God to move within a marriage, whereas ABC, used in any way, does not. I am no where close to agreeing with artificial contraception or abortion. That said: Maybe I’m crazy, but the last I checked prudence is a virtue, and one that should be used within marriage and family life and especially decisions regarding your family size. For some families it may be prudent to have 10 or 11 or more kids, for others far fewer. Pardon me for saying so (and I am sure I’ll get tomatoes for this one, too): God gaves us these brains so that we could use them, and that is one major way we are distinguished from animals.

Nicole

P.S. I am aware that sex usually does not result in pregnancy. but if you aren’t charting your cycles at all and having sex regularly, the vast majority of couples will be pregnant in under a year. That’s what I was getting at.
 
He_Man said:
Do you have any facts or links to back up your supposition, or do you prefer to just make indignant comebacks and not refute the links provided?:confused:
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There is a lot of information out there. Try a google search. Just think about population growth, growing demand for limited oil supplies, and go see Al Gore’s movie on global warming ( you may not like Al’s politics but he is no idiot ). Also, just for purposes of broadening your prospective, try to occasionally allow yourself to read something contrary to the churches teachings population .
 
Doesnt it seem unfair to the children you might have though… if you dont have the finances? I understand that NFP has a lot of benefits, but why not just wear a condom?
 
Ruth17 said:
Doesnt it seem unfair to the children you might have though… if you dont have the finances? I understand that NFP has a lot of benefits, but why not just wear a condom?
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For someone who does it knowingly and willingly, it would be a mortal sin to wear a condom, but it wouldn’t be a mortal sin to practice NFP to avoid children when needed. It is definitely not worth risking an eternity in hell (plus, mortal sins hurt God immensely).
 
Here’s a several reasons to have a big family.

You and your children will have a big support system.

You will be more likely to rear grateful children. Why? There will be less temptation to spoil them. Why? Well, you will have less money. Out of necessity, you will require your kids to chip in with the chores.

A big family can be so much fun. There’s always someone to play with.

Your kids will learn how to share, negotiate with each other, and to resolve differences. They will be more considerate of other people. Your older children will become servants of the younger and your younger children will have the love and protection of the older.

Of course, this all assumes you are rearing them with Catholic values and developing virtues.

God loves life! One reason I can tell this from natural law is that the sex drive is so intense and the fertile years last so long.

I think it is funny that those of us with five or six kids are considered to have big families when only a few decades ago, five or six would have been considered a good start. I know my mom who grew up in a Catholic neighborhood had the smallest family on the street (five kids). My grandparents married late.
 
JMJ,

I agree, my wife and I have six kids and people think we have a very large family, yet I come from a family of 10 kids, with an aunt and uncle with 11 kids–that is 21 kids in two familes, which would be 10 family’s worth of children today.
 
tjm8 said:
There is a lot of information out there. Try a google search. Just think about population growth, growing demand for limited oil supplies, and go see Al Gore’s movie on global warming ( you may not like Al’s politics but he is no idiot ). Also, just for purposes of broadening your prospective, try to occasionally allow yourself to read something contrary to the churches teachings population .
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Have you actually looked at population trends? It’s already leveling off. As societies become more wealthy and educated, they have fewer children. This does not necessarily mean wealthy societies do not value children, but that the time it takes to get an education delays marriage and raising of families, and truncates the period of active sex during childbearing years. Plus, abortion and contraception have already caused the population to begin or nearly begin declining in several European countries.

I neither care for Al Gore’s politics nor do I have any respect for his opinions, which is all they are. Actually, I take that back. In addition to being his opinions, they are his wrong opinions.
 
I got married 34 years ago, at a time when some Catholics, including priests, were openly rejecting Humanae Vitae and speaking out in favour of artificial birth control methods.

People asked how many children we planned to have which made me think about the issue at some length. I came to the conclusion that if we were to use ABC we would be hypocritical to remain in the Church. I went with Simon Peter’s response in John 6:69 …where else would I go?

I learned the Billings Method of NFR after a few children to enable me to at least have a break between children (God got around that for my last 3 pregnancies). Out of 11 known pregnancies we have 6 children here and 5 (maybe more) in Heaven.

There were times it was hard, times I wept in anguish at never having quite enough money and skimping on food. But one day when I was praying in desperation, God gave me a piece of Scripture that I have made my own.

Matthew 6: 25-34 I have kept this in my heart from that time on. I concentrate on seeking the things of God, and what is righteous in His eyes, knowing that He has perfect knowledge of my needs and will provide. I seldom ask, I thank Him for His great love and Divine Providence. It says that in Scripture too, I didn’t use to understand what it meant.

I have come to expect miracles because that is how my life works these days. Many people mock me, the kinder ones shake their heads and think I am incredibly naive, but while God has me in the palm of His hand, how can I go wrong?
 
Suz21 said:
Hi everyone,
The issue here is that we’re Indians, and a lot of our problems are supposed to be because of overpopulation.
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Is overpopulation causing starvation?

In this country, we are very often told that starvation is not a productivity problem, but a distribution/ social injustice problem.

What are your thoughts about this?
 
vluvski said:
Have you actually looked at population trends? It’s already leveling off. As societies become more wealthy and educated, they have fewer children. This does not necessarily mean wealthy societies do not value children, but that the time it takes to get an education delays marriage and raising of families, and truncates the period of active sex during childbearing years. Plus, abortion and contraception have already caused the population to begin or nearly begin declining in several European countries.

I neither care for Al Gore’s politics nor do I have any respect for his opinions, which is all they are. Actually, I take that back. In addition to being his opinions, they are his wrong opinions.
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You accurately point out that there has been some progress on the overpopulation problem. I however, continue to believe more progress is needed. I also believe that the churches positions on birth control are not helpful.
I am not concerned by your problems with Al Gore. What concerns me is that your position on global warming is a strange one for one who claims to be well educated.
 
When is enough enough regarding children? If a couple has no more room, or is at the end of the line with money, is that time? What is the cutoff where a couple says “no more?”
 
Tom317 said:
When is enough enough regarding children? If a couple has no more room, or is at the end of the line with money, is that time? What is the cutoff where a couple says “no more?”
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When the woman is somewhere between 40 and 50.
 
Tom317 said:
When is enough enough regarding children? If a couple has no more room, or is at the end of the line with money, is that time? What is the cutoff where a couple says “no more?”
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At precisely the momet God says no more.

I am a CPA and can tell you that on paper none of us can cost justify a child. You can NEVER afford them. But if you put your Trust in the Lord you will receive as many children and as many blessings as you can handle.
 
How about this… Catholics do not need reasons **to have **a big family, but they do need to have reasons **to not have ** one.
 
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