Reasons to like the OF :)

[Melchior_1]

I for one would like to see some examples of these abuses.

First, one needs to take into account the rise of social media. It wasn’t quite the same then, so when an abuse happened people didn’t run over to CAF and post everything perceived as an abuse. If there wasn’t, there would have been no need for Dominic and Francis to essentially re-build the Church when they did. We would not have required Councils to clarify matters. If folks like Tertullian and Oriegin were subject to falling into heresy, surely you would expect their heresies to be introduced ti their liturgies?

Further, some abuses people wouldn’t even know. When a priest is mumbling something in another language, you won’t even know what’s being said. The Mass could be said in Pig Latin for all you know. No mics then, most people wouldn’t hear.

To say there wasn’t any abuses before the Ordinary Form is among the height of ignorance (or innocence).

 

[hudson]

Further, some abuses people wouldn’t even know. When a priest is mumbling something in another language, you won’t even know what’s being said. The Mass could be said in Pig Latin for all you know. No mics then, most people wouldn’t hear.

So Acolytes, Deacons, Subdeacons, Altar Boys all just played along while the Priest said Mass in pig latin or mumbled whatever. Sounds legit.

 

[Melchior_1]

So Acolytes, Deacons, Subdeacons, Altar Boys all just played along while the Priest said Mass in pig latin or mumbled whatever. Sounds legit.

Just as legit as those people in those same roles all just playing along while current abuses are happening.

Just because it wasn’t reported on message boards and blogs doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Like it or not, your liturgical preferences had some questionable moments, whether they were recorded or not (such as the Feast of Asses).

The good ol’ days weren’t always so good. Some people here can attest to that, I’m sure.

 

[GloriousOrder]

I love the vernacular O.F. because I can readily understand and become immersed in the prayers without having to translate in my head or read a Missal. Call me a Romanticist, but I like to ‘feel’ my way through the Mass in meditation, contemplation, and active praying. Flipping through a book for even 2-3 pages seems very tedious to me. With the new, reverent translation only a few months away from implementation, I see no reason to go out of my way to reach a 120-mile distant E.F. anymore.

 

[Heliotropium]

I am an OF going Catholic. I haven’t made it to an EF yet because I have four children to take with me, and I doubt they will remain reverent for an entire Mass said in another language.

I LOVE the OF. I often come to CAF and try to learn from Cradle Catholics, but have noticed a negative undertone when others speak about the OF. So, for those of us that unabashedly attend the OF, why do you like it?

1. Christ is there.

Without going to the EF then anything others say about it will probably not be beneficial to you. Also your children are more than welcome at the EF. If they act up then you can go to the vestibule or even outside if they become too rowdy…just like at the OF.

Also I have come to notice that the negative undertones in this forum are not regarding the OF itself but rather the way in which some Catholics have celebrated it. You would be hard-pressed to find EF Catholics having a problem with an OF celebrated in the way in which it has been asked to be celebrated by the Council.

Sadly though there is this foulness being spread around Catholic forums that if anyone has a problem with the way in which the OF is celebrated then they have a problem with the OF. Such accusations are about as unreasonable as saying that silence does not equal participation during Mass.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

*Without going to the EF then anything others say about it will probably not be beneficial to you. *

Exactly. I don’t understand the point of this topic in this particular forum if the OP has not been to EF in order to compare the two.

 

[Cat]

Well, this is certainly a touchy issue for many here. Maybe you haven’t seen enough liturgical entertainment yet but I’m sure it will happen eventually. Just look for liturgical dance on youtube. You’ll get the idea

You say that you’re sure that eventually I’ll see liturgical entertainment.

I’ve attended Mass every Sunday faithfully for seven years since converting to Catholicism, and also as many daily Masses as I am able to attend (I work).

In all of that time, I have seen ONE incident of liturgical dance, at a parish in Minnesota. (I was in town for a skating competition.) The entire parish was rather strange–the priest was sipping coffee up at the altar. To this day, I’m not positive that it was truly a Catholic church.

But never in any of the other parishes, and never in any of the parishes in my diocese, have I ever seen liturgical dance, or any other form of “entertainment.” Our bishop has made it clear that liturgical dance is not allowed in the Masses.

What I’m saying is that, in my part of the country, at least, it doesn’t look like I’m going to be seeing any “liturgical entertainment” anytime soon.

And to be honest, I really don’t want to poke around on youtube looking for it. Surely you know that you can find almost anything online, and that seeing it doesn’t prove that it’s happening everywhere. I’m sorry if it’s happening where you live.

 

[Cat]

One of the main reasons that the EF stayed latin is because it is the accepted version of the bible by the Church. It errs way less than the OF because it is in English. That is a main reason it stayed Latin. More reliable

The Bible was originally written in Hebrew and Greek, not Latin. It was translated into Latin. But to this day, Bible scholars go back to the Hebrew and Greek to study the Bible.

 

[Danquayle76]

The Bible was originally written in Hebrew and Greek, not Latin. It was translated into Latin. But to this day, Bible scholars go back to the Hebrew and Greek to study the Bible.

However, Saint Jerome’s edition of the Vulgate is the only version of the Bible to have been declared free from doctrinal error. Even the original Hebrew and Greek doesn’t have that stamp of approval

In addition, translators are strongly encouraged to consider the translation choices Jerome made when making their own translations (This is one of the reasons the RSV:CE is so popular among many Catholics).

 

[Love_Divine]

Yes, the priest reads them in Latin. Generally the Gospel is reread in the vernacular before the homily, but not always.

At the FSSP EF Mass I regularly attended while I could, the Epistle and Gospel were sung in Latin, and then said in the vernacular after the priest removed his maniple right before the homily.

 

[heathernoel]

I didn’t want to pit the two against each other. Not at all I guess my rationale behind this is that I see so many posts about the EF where the OF is put down. The OF has merit, and for those discerning the church, there might be confusion. Both are valid and awesome Masses. And, it’s OK to be an OF Mass goer

I like that the priest faces us. I appreciate seeing their reverence for the Eucharist. I like feeling a connection with my Brothers and Sisters as we join together at the Banquet. It’s phenomenal.

 

[TrueLight]

I didn’t want to pit the two against each other. Not at all I guess my rationale behind this is that I see so many posts about the EF where the OF is put down. The OF has merit, and for those discerning the church, there might be confusion. Both are valid and awesome Masses. And, it’s OK to be an OF Mass goer

I like that the priest faces us. I appreciate seeing their reverence for the Eucharist. I like feeling a connection with my Brothers and Sisters as we join together at the Banquet. It’s phenomenal.

What do you think accounts for that feeling of connection? I think that’s important.

It’s not something I’ve encountered in either the EF or OF.

 

[Heliotropium]

What do you think accounts for that feeling of connection? I think that’s important.

It’s not something I’ve encountered in either the EF or OF.

Maybe its the lack of understanding in what it is your witnessing during Mass? Maybe it’s because your trying to feel something in the first place? Maybe it’s because you incorrectly associate feelings with validation?

Tell me is it important that we “feel” when it comes to matters of faith? If I went to confession and recieved absolution but didnt feel forgiven then would I be correct in believing that I had not been forgiven? If your answer is no, then why is “feeling something” important when it comes to Mass?

 

[TrueLight]

Maybe its the lack of understanding in what it is your witnessing during Mass? Maybe it’s because your trying to feel something in the first place? Maybe it’s because you incorrectly associate feelings with validation?

Tell me is it important that we “feel” when it comes to matters of faith? If I went to confession and recieved absolution but didnt feel forgiven then would I be correct in believing that I had not been forgiven? If your answer is no, then why is “feeling something” important when it comes to Mass?

Maybe you shouldn’t comment on my lack of understanding or tell me what I incorrectly associate things with.

Maybe, “It’s not about how we feel” should stop being a litany.

My observation is that the mass is very vertical, and everyone is focused on one thing, which is the sacrifice of the mass, as they should be.

However, that doesn’t mean there should be no room to feel like brothers and sisters. I’m pretty sure when the Apostles and early disciples were meeting at each other’s houses, they was a real sense of community.

 

[CB_Catholic]

What do you think accounts for that feeling of connection? I think that’s important.

It’s not something I’ve encountered in either the EF or OF.

I’ll take a stab at this.
When I have finished my thanksgiving after Communion I sometimes will watch those still going up for Communion and that is when I feel that connectedness. I think about how all of them are in church with me receiving Jesus, how we form the Body of Christ, how we are all parts of that body. Then I think about the Saints and all those who have gone before me who are with the Lord, how we are all in communion with them, and they are part of the Body also. It is awesome.

True Light, coming from a Protestant tradition, it may be a bit difficult for you at first to sense that connectedness with those who have passed on (I don’t really know if you do or not), but that reality should hit you in time. And whern you receive the Eucharist with other believers, that may bring that sense of connectedness forward. In any case, it is something worh meditating on.

 

[TrueLight]

True Light, coming from a Protestant tradition, it may be a bit difficult for you at first to sense that connectedness with those who have passed on (I don’t really know if you do or not), but that reality should hit you in time. And whern you receive the Eucharist with other believers, that may bring that sense of connectedness forward. In any case, it is something worh meditating on.

Indeed. Thank you.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Maybe you shouldn’t comment on my lack of understanding or tell me what I incorrectly associate things with.

Maybe, “It’s not about how we feel” should stop being a litany.

My observation is that the mass is very vertical, and everyone is focused on one thing, which is the sacrifice of the mass, as they should be.

However, that doesn’t mean there should be no room to feel like brothers and sisters. I’m pretty sure when the Apostles and early disciples were meeting at each other’s houses, they was a real sense of community.

Mass cannot and should not be all “vertical”, there must be a “horizontal” part.
We, the faithful, are part of the Body of Christ,
and His presence in each one of us is just as much a part of the Mass
as His presence in the priest, in the word, and the bread & wine.
Remember what Jesus said…,
"Wherever 2 or more are gathered in my name, there I am too."

And, a thought from my spiritual director-
you can’t have the cross without a vertical and horizontal beam.!

 

[Heliotropium]

Maybe you shouldn’t comment on my lack of understanding or tell me what I incorrectly associate things with.

Maybe you shouldnt take my “maybes” as a personal attack since I only said it because I noticed you have Pre-Catholic listed under what religion you are.

Maybe, “It’s not about how we feel” should stop being a litany.

Maybe people shouldnt give others a reason to post such a Litany.

My observation is that the mass is very vertical, and everyone is focused on one thing, which is the sacrifice of the mass, as they should be.

However, that doesn’t mean there should be no room to feel like brothers and sisters. I’m pretty sure when the Apostles and early disciples were meeting at each other’s houses, they was a real sense of community.

I’m not saying that people shouldn’t feel or that feelings are bad. What I’m saying is that in the end feelings are not important when it comes to matters of faith.

 

[TrueLight]

Mass cannot and should not be all “vertical”, there must be a “horizontal” part.
We, the faithful, are part of the Body of Christ,
and His presence in each one of us is just as much a part of the Mass
as His presence in the priest, in the word, and the bread & wine.
Remember what Jesus said…,
"Wherever 2 or more are gathered in my name, there I am too."

And, a thought from my spiritual director-
you can’t have the cross without a vertical and horizontal beam.!

 

[OraLabora]

Traditional Catholics by definition are going to prefer the EF. The OF does have some benefits as its an easier liturgy to approach as its the vernacular and completely audible. However, I find the Latin, the ritual, and the many silences of the EF heighten the mystery of the mass for me and make it easier for me to approach Christ and his sacrifice on Calvary.

None of this is peculiar to the EF. It is also part of an OF Mass reverently celebrated. I go to Mass at a Benedictine abbey. The propers and ordinary are chanted in Latin Gregorian chant, the rest is in French plainchant, including the readings. The monks enter in procession with incense, there are long silences after the readings, the monks have elaborate rituals for posture at different points in the Mass, and the exit in procession.

It really is the OF as it was intended to be. That few places actually have paid attention to that is not a fault of the OF itself.