Reasons Why I Prefer the Pauline Mass

[nannygirl]

Defending the Church and her Clergy against those who feel that they are above her authority…yesssssssssss!

I tried to edit my last post, but ran out of time, so please disregard the remark about “nutty people” in the previous post. Here is what I meant to say:

Hey, I agree with you. Some people go a little overboard on both ends of the spectrum. What pains me is when motives are questioned and assumptions made that may be totally off the mark and they are put forth like it is the last word. It’s simply no fun to engage that person. Some do seem to be wired to argue and start fights for their own personal pleasure. Others overreact.

Sometimes it doesn’t hurt to “walk a mile or two in another’s moccasins” to gain a different perspective. There are no two people alike anywhere, as we all know.

I can’t resist razzing you once in awhile- all in good fun! I enjoy your sarcasm.

 

[ethelzguy]

I tried to edit my last post, but ran out of time, so please disregard the remark about “nutty people” in the previous post. Here is what I meant to say:

Hey, I agree with you. Some people go a little overboard on both ends of the spectrum. What pains me is when motives are questioned and assumptions made that may be totally off the mark and they are put forth like it is the last word. It’s simply no fun to engage that person. Some do seem to be wired to argue and start fights for their own personal pleasure. Others overreact.

Sometimes it doesn’t hurt to “walk a mile or two in another’s moccasins” to gain a different perspective. There are no two people alike anywhere, as we all know.

I can’t resist razzing you once in awhile- all in good fun! I enjoy your sarcasm.

Some would have you think that I dont’ care what goes on at Mass or otherwise…not so. I’ve had plenty of “fireside chats” with clergy over the years. But what I have learned is that those who can’t seem to go a month without complaining to Father about something soon get tuned out.

And sometimes, you don’t even have to complain. Just ask the right question and things often have a way of working themselves out.

Like asking Father some years back, “Why do you use the phrase ‘as we wait in joyful hope, for the coming of our Savior, Jesus THE Christ’”??? He stopped after that.

You don’t have to accuse or complain. If you see or hear something that seems out of place to you, ASK…either they’ll explain why they do it, or they will stop.

And, it’s a whole lot more effective then endless whining and complaing.

 

[nannygirl]

Some would have you think that I dont’ care what goes on at Mass or otherwise…not so. I’ve had plenty of “fireside chats” with clergy over the years. But what I have learned is that those who can’t seem to go a month without complaining to Father about something soon get tuned out.

And sometimes, you don’t even have to complain. Just ask the right question and things often have a way of working themselves out.

Like asking Father some years back, “Why do you use the phrase ‘as we wait in joyful hope, for the coming of our Savior, Jesus THE Christ’”??? He stopped after that.

You don’t have to accuse or complain. If you see or hear something that seems out of place to you, ASK…either they’ll explain why they do it, or they will stop.

And, it’s a whole lot more effective then endless whining and complaing.

I agree with you. Often it’s just the way it’s handled that makes all the difference in the world. I’ve never complained to my priest about anything. It’s all still pretty new to me- being a 2 year old convert. I’m still in awe of the Mass in either form. I can’t really say I have a preference because I find aspects of both very appealing. (My “mother” church has a beautiful OF Mass and my “home” church has a beautiful EF Mass.)

Like Spiller, I don’t think being traditional and attending the OF are mutually exclusive.

 

[Spiller]

Well, I certainly won’t suggest that. Doing so would seem rather silly, since so much of the OF is in fact quite traditional. If it weren’t, it would bear no resemblance to what it followed.

Your position agrees with my own. It runs contrary to many on this forum however.

Well, which is a more traditional Catholic practice? The Rosary or Transcendental Meditation? Or what about these: Rock and Roll or Gregorian Chant? Facing east or doing otherwise? Of course, this doesn’t automatically mean that the newer way is bad, or even itself “anti-traditional”. The Rosary at one time was new and yet was untraditional.

Neither the rosary nor TM is part of the Mass. TM is not even a “Catholic practice.” How about a spoken Mass versus one with chant? The spoken Mass is an older form and hence more “traditional” to some, while the beauty of Gregorian Chant makes it more “traditional” to others. Facing east also doesn’t always equate to the priest facing the same direction as the faithful, depending on the orientation of the parish structure. If it depends on person’s personal feelings of what is “more traditional” than anything else.

The question will often be how well a practice or form reflects and fits into the traditional Catholic life. The Rosary was always a very Catholic form of prayer, in every way, whereas TM is not. That is because the Rosary, while at one time itself a rather new form, was always a part of the living tradition of the Church and didn’t claim anything new or innovative about prayer, the object of prayer or the theology behind it. More to the point, it was actually rooted in a firm understanding of Catholic teaching about the saints, God and man. TM of course doesn’t at all share in the traditions of the faith, and is just something innovative that people have stuck onto the life of the Church because they thought it was cool.

Actually the Church is considerably older than the Rosary. While it is based on the Judaic model of praying the Psalms, it dates from the 12th/13th century and Saint Dominic de Guzman.

I certainly enjoy Rock and Roll and can have long conversations about which particular album is best (Dark Side of the Moon, btw) and so on, but just because I like it does it become traditional liturgical music? Of course not. Not only is it not itself a tradition, it doesn’t even reflect traditional ideas about liturgical music or fit into the other traditional forms of prayer in Mass. Like TM, it is something forced in because people think it is cool.

The absence of liturgical music is an even older practice. How about we compare that to Gregorian Chant?

While one can have some legitimate disagreement about just how traditional something is, I really don’t accept that this is an esoteric term without a clear meaning relevant to all of us. We as Catholics, if we bother to consider things a bit, can easily tell when one thing is more traditional than another and when something is not a traditional form at all.

I think the personal definitions on these pages differ a great deal.

Perhaps, but I don’t think that means that it is an irrelevant term or point of discussion. Most especially on a “Traditional Catholicism” forum. I also think that some of the difference lies in the fact that perhaps you yourself have a rather untraditional view of tradition itself. For instance, I have no objection that a very traditional Catholic could find great comfort in the OF. As I have said, so much of it is traditional, but admittedly some of it is much less so. The Roman Canon for instance is very traditional, and I much prefer it, but the other Eucharistic Prayers are much less so. But, you didn’t list the retention of the Roman Canon as why you liked the new Mass, and instead the addition of the other prayers. That is the least traditional aspect of the Eucharistic Prayers in the OF, and so doesn’t seem to reflect a “traditional” perspective of preference regarding the OF. This is why I have stated that I agree that a traditional Catholic can prefer the OF, but he cannot claim he is traditional because he does. That has, generally, seemed to be your basic approach.

Many would disagree. The Roman Canon is my favorite, but I am aware that other EPs are more appropriate given the specific Mass. Some EPs (some of the Marian ones for instance) seem every bit as traditional as #1 but that’s just my opinion.

 

[SJP]

Neither the rosary nor TM is part of the Mass. TM is not even a “Catholic practice.” How about a spoken Mass versus one with chant? The spoken Mass is an older form and hence more “traditional” to some, while the beauty of Gregorian Chant makes it more “traditional” to others.

The absence of liturgical music is an even older practice. How about we compare that to Gregorian Chant?

Just because a certain practice may be older than another practice does not mean that it is automatically “more Traditional”. Liturgical traditions should develop organically.

 

[japhy]

You’re not the arbiter of that for the Church…

I’m not sure where you’re going. You haven’t commented on the facts I pointed out about able priests celebrating Mass but NOT distributing Holy Communion at my parish (on Holy Thursday, no less!) despite the Church calling such behavior reprobate. You’ve simply called into question my ability to report the facts.