Rebaptism

[jane_doe]

It is…its not just that i don’t understand but I don’t agree with it and I feel that by going, it is endorsing it.

I’m guessing that your mother no longer considers herself Catholic and no longer endorses Catholic teachings. Would you therefore feel it right for her to boycott your sacramental marriage or your children’s baptism? (Or whatever significant Catholic events in your life)

It’s a tough spot to be in. Maybe I should ask my pastor.

Agreed.

(Note: I’m neither protestant nor Catholic, so I don’t really have a direct dog in this fight. I’m just a big proponent of being there for family).

 

[susanlo]

GOod topic.

My mother was baptized as a young adult in the Catholic church. She wasn’t really anything prior to being catholic.

Awhile ago, after getting divorced, she started going to other churches. Now she is scheduled to get baptized again. I tried understanding why she feels the need to do this but all I can come up with is that it is pretty superficial and selfish. Not selfish in the sense that it is a bad thing but that it really has nothing to do except present an outward sign of faith for oneself.

I’m trying to figure out how to let her know that I won’t be attending

I wonder what church she is going to be baptized at.

I am familiar with churches that don’t regard infant baptism as a valid baptism and for this reason will do another baptism. From their perspective the baptism as a young child that did not involve personal belief and repentance was not a valid baptism. So this adult/older child baptism is the first and only valid baptism. I am not familiar with a church baptizing someone who was already baptized as an adult. I would be curious to know why they choose to do this.

I don’t know if it is necessary to agree with what your mother is doing in order to be there to support her.

 

[Padres1969]

IIRC, there are some Orthodox that will rebaptize converts, even Catholics.
It isn’t just a phenomenon of certain so-called Protestant groups

Jon

Even Catholics will conditionally “re-baptize” if there is a doubt about the form or matter involved in the prior “baptism” of a person. Or if they’re coming from a faith that the RCC doesn’t recognize as having what is considered a valid baptism. Granted in both cases the baptism is only working once but for the person being baptized it is still a second run through it, albeit properly this time.

Catholics aren’t alone in conditionally re-baptizing. My own church also practices the same if there is any doubt of the form or matter of a congregant’s former baptism and/or if from a non-trinitarian church. Same goes for Confirmation. If they’re not sure they were confirmed in one of the Churches our church recognizes as having apostolic succession they’ll be conditionally “re-confirmed” as well.

 

[Padres1969]

GOod topic.

My mother was baptized as a young adult in the Catholic church. She wasn’t really anything prior to being catholic.

Awhile ago, after getting divorced, she started going to other churches. Now she is scheduled to get baptized again. I tried understanding why she feels the need to do this but all I can come up with is that it is pretty superficial and selfish. Not selfish in the sense that it is a bad thing but that it really has nothing to do except present an outward sign of faith for oneself.

I’m trying to figure out how to let her know that I won’t be attending

Many denominations, particularly of the Baptist, Evangelical and Anabaptist families, use baptism, often full immersion, as a symbol of having been born again in Christ as a believer, particularly for adults. Their understanding of baptism can be somewhat different from the Catholic and earlier Protestant views of it (namely Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, and some Reformed Churches).

If she’s joining a Baptist, Anabaptist, or other Evangelical based church that may be why she feels the need to be re-baptized.

 

[CatholicSooner]

Many denominations, particularly of the Baptist, Evangelical and Anabaptist families, use baptism, often full immersion, as a symbol of having been born again in Christ as a believer, particularly for adults. Their understanding of baptism can be somewhat different from the Catholic and earlier Protestant views of it (namely Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, and some Reformed Churches).

If she’s joining a Baptist, Anabaptist, or other Evangelical based church that may be why she feels the need to be re-baptized.

She’s been going to this church for several years now. I think they are somewhat of a nondenominational church. She happened to be asked to fill in on a baptism class to make the gender ratio equal and she ended up saying she felt called to be baptized again. From speaking briefly with her, it sounds like it is a similar reason of confirmation. I think this church is very high on immersion type. So I would ask her if she felt her catholic baptism wasn’t valid and she said that really isn’t the issue. She just wants the experience of the immersion and the symbolism. And to me, that sounds like its all about the self and not what baptism is about.

In fact, I have talked to my pastor briefly about it b/c his mother is baptist and I know he deals with similar struggles of having a nonCatholic mother. But at this point, my mother had not planned anything yet.

There’s not much you can really say when somebody tells you that God is calling them to do something. No way to really refute it without hurting feelings

 

[Padres1969]

She’s been going to this church for several years now. I think they are somewhat of a nondenominational church. She happened to be asked to fill in on a baptism class to make the gender ratio equal and she ended up saying she felt called to be baptized again. From speaking briefly with her, it sounds like it is a similar reason of confirmation. I think this church is very high on immersion type. So I would ask her if she felt her catholic baptism wasn’t valid and she said that really isn’t the issue. She just wants the experience of the immersion and the symbolism. And to me, that sounds like its all about the self and not what baptism is about.

In fact, I have talked to my pastor briefly about it b/c his mother is baptist and I know he deals with similar struggles of having a nonCatholic mother. But at this point, my mother had not planned anything yet.

There’s not much you can really say when somebody tells you that God is calling them to do something. No way to really refute it without hurting feelings

They’d probably argue that “feeling called” is her feeling called to be born again as a true Christian. And as a non-denom they’re almost certainly Baptist (or Pentacostal), in which case that full immersion baptism symbolizing her being born again would be right in their wheelhouse. Remember for them Baptism doesn’t have the regenerative/indelible mark aspect to it that Catholics, Orthodox and earlier Protestants believe. For them baptism is simply symbolizing something that’s already occurred in the person. In your mother’s case that change would have occurred after her Catholic baptism (which is part of why they don’t baptize kids) from their perspective. So symbolically re-baptising her after she’s been born again makes sense from their perspective. To them the Catholic baptism was largely a hollow gesture since your mom hadn’t made a personal acceptance as Christ as her savior at the time it occurred.

 

[rcwitness]

not sure if I missed it , but is your friend just recently been “born again” , come to faith in Christ as her savior ? That is when many folks get "re baptized’’ as to differentiate from any baptism that was done before being made anew (infancy or adult baptism). Otherwise not sure I agree with rebaptism due to denomination, or a new church requirement.

Blessings

I wonder what church she is going to be baptized at.

I am familiar with churches that don’t regard infant baptism as a valid baptism and for this reason will do another baptism. From their perspective the baptism as a young child that did not involve personal belief and repentance was not a valid baptism. So this adult/older child baptism is the first and only valid baptism. I am not familiar with a church baptizing someone who was already baptized as an adult. I would be curious to know why they choose to do this.

I don’t know if it is necessary to agree with what your mother is doing in order to be there to support her.

Good questions.
I think some churches are not able, nor do they wish, to be able to determine whether someone had a genuine conversion before their first baptism, even if as an adult. They may claim to not have been genuine or something… and how should that church know if they were truly “made anew”?

Infant Baptism is done through the privilege of the parents, sponsors, and the whole Church who are believers and accepting the Child into the body. Until they have the ability to accept or reject personal belief, they are grafted through members. They have committed no personal sin, but are born outside a state of grace. Baptism brings that grace by the merit of Christ’s forgiveness.

I know you both have strong convictions to believers only Baptism. We believe the Church has always practiced Baptizing infants of Christian parents from Apostolic Tradition. The Church affirmed Baptism as valid even before the 8th day around 250 AD. This is even before we have a record of the correct Canon of Scripture.

If we use the same method for confirming Scripture to the practice of Infant Baptism, we should conclude that it is Apostolic.

 

[rcwitness]

To the OP,
I had some discussions with my brother in law when he announced he would be getting rebaptized in an evangelical church. He was Baptized and Confirmed Catholic. He asked me to be God parent of his son when Baptized. I did.

He had a conversion and said he was saved now that he believes, so wanted to be rebaptized. I asked if he did not believe before, like when he went through Confirmation and brought his own children to be Baptized. He would not answer, or rather answered that it is between him and Jesus.

I think he had a genuine conversion, but not unto first belief. It was more like he was ready to accept and follow. But he did not want to follow before.

I told him I am happy for his conversion to deeper belief, but would not support rebaptism. We have moved on from that now. I let him know what I believed and I sympathized for his lack of genuine parents. They were poor influences on his Christian formation. And this is very important regarding culpability.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

The next thing I need to do is figure out where her particular denomination gets its theology. Of course the obvious answer is the “father of lies”, but I have to get a little more specific in my understanding.

Speaking as a Christian who is not Roman Catholic, I would like to make a passing comment on something others seem to have glossed over. Regardless of what other denomination this woman belongs to, if it is a Christian branch of the church, then the members are followers of Christ, not ‘the father of lies.’ Respect is important, even if the theology and praxis are a bit different.

People on this forum (non-Catholic religions) are for the most part are quite respectful of others.

 

[rcwitness]

I don’t know if it is necessary to agree with what your mother is doing in order to be there to support her.

This is the interesting aspect of the issue. What does it mean to go to this service?

I think Catholics may have both opinions about it. I personally believe that attending is more than just “supporting her in general”. If it was a non-Catholic Christian Baptism, for the first time, then that would be different. But a Baptism after receiving a Catholic Baptism should not be attended by Catholics.

We would encourage them to embrace their Baptism rather than rejecting it. Receiving a reBaptism carries other issues with it. It’s no longer an innocent Baptism, but also a rejection of what was already given.

Like I said before… there are levels of culpability to this. The parental example and education of the Gospel are very relative.

 

[rcwitness]

Speaking as a Christian who is not Roman Catholic, I would like to make a passing comment on something others seem to have glossed over. Regardless of what other denomination this woman belongs to, if it is a Christian branch of the church, then the members are followers of Christ, not ‘the father of lies.’ Respect is important, even if the theology and praxis are a bit different.

People on this forum (non-Catholic religions) are for the most part are quite respectful of others.

That’s true! All Christian communities have various amounts of Catholic Faith. And Baptism being valid, along with Holy Matrimony.

 

[CatholicSooner]

Well I’m really not sure what to do. I suppose I will go but I think I need to have more coversations with her.

If I don’t go, I may potentially close the door and whatever hope I have of her coming back to the Catholic church

 

[rcwitness]

Well I’m really not sure what to do. I suppose I will go but I think I need to have more coversations with her.

If I don’t go, I may potentially close the door and whatever hope I have of her coming back to the Catholic church

I don’t think that’s true. You will have plenty of ways to have good relations and fellowship.

I think it is logical that, if you truly believe in Infant Baptism, you would not want to support her reBaptism. That is a sign of faith.

Maybe ask your pastor, and the Holy Spirit to give understanding.

 

[rcwitness]

Tell her Martin Luther was Baptized as an infant. He had this to say about infant Baptism: iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/catechism/web/cat-13a.html

… pretty cool, if ya ask me

 

[Padres1969]

Tell her Martin Luther was Baptized as an infant. He had this to say about infant Baptism: iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/catechism/web/cat-13a.html

… pretty cool, if ya ask me

True, and Lutherans baptize babies as well.

But then again the mother in this instance isn’t Lutheran. Baptists reject infant baptism.

 

[rcwitness]

True, and Lutherans baptize babies as well.

But then again the mother in this instance isn’t Lutheran. Baptists reject infant baptism.

Yes, Anabaptists.

 

[Wannano]

Tell her Martin Luther was Baptized as an infant. He had this to say about infant Baptism: iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/catechism/web/cat-13a.html

… pretty cool, if ya ask me

Hi rc, if you think Luther diatribe you quoted is cool I then have to admit that I am shocked that you believe in OSAS!

 

[rcwitness]

Hi rc, if you think Luther diatribe you quoted is cool I then have to admit that I am shocked that you believe in OSAS!

Could you explain, please?

 

[Wannano]

Could you explain, please?

Sure, I will quote his last sentence. “If, therefore we have once in Baptism obtained forgiveness of sin, it will remain every day, as long as we live, that is, as long as we carry the old man about our neck.”

I think we agree that God’s forgiveness of our sin is ultimately what saves us?

 

[rcwitness]

Sure, I will quote his last sentence. “If, therefore we have once in Baptism obtained forgiveness of sin, it will remain every day, as long as we live, that is, as long as we carry the old man about our neck.”

I think we agree that God’s forgiveness of our sin is ultimately what saves us?

Thanks. What does “… that is, as long as we carry the old man about our neck.” Mean?

I don’t know, but it suggests a condition. St Paul’s Scriptures, and other Scriptures, express something like this; that as long as we persevere, continue, remain in Him, we are justified. Though we may fall away, we still have access to forgiveness by turning to Him and confessing.