Rebecca question about revelation

  • Thread starter Thread starter falisrm
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Yada, thanks for confusing me again. I’ll have to ponder what puzzle said. Thats a new concept for me.
 
falisrm said:
Yada, thanks for confusing me again. I’ll have to ponder what puzzle said. Thats a new concept for me.
Click to expand...
I was not trying to confuse you 🤷

The revelation came from Christ to the Apostles … Jesus founded the Church [the keeper of the revelation] … scriptures [NT] comes much later and as such is part of the Tradition …

The teachings of the Church come in the form of Doctrines and Traditions - part of the Tradition is the NT writings which is basically the Canon - now what exactly is a Canon
1.an ecclesiastical rule or law enacted by a council or other competent authority and, in the Roman Catholic Church, approved by the pope.
2.the body of ecclesiastical law.
3.the body of rules, principles, or standards accepted as axiomatic and universally binding in a field of study or art: *the neoclassical canon. *
4.a fundamental principle or general rule: *the canons of good behavior. *
5.a standard; criterion: *the canons of taste. *
6.the books of the Bible recognized by any Christian church as genuine and inspired.
Click to expand...
The Doctrines, the Traditions and the Canon of the Church are in harmony with each other … they are all part of the whole of Gods revealtion … if all you have is the Bible - then you only have a part - a piece - an incomplete revelation
 
In terms of new doctrines, no, Jesus is the final and perfect doctrinal revelation, there are no new doctrines to add, as Jesus fulfilled all prophecy and revealed to us the New Covenant.

What our Bishops do is guide the Church, prayerfully and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Is this not revelation? Is this not God revealing His will?

Also, your concept of revelation is very narrow. You believe that prophecy is the only way God reveals. This is not the Catholic view, at all. God reveals Himself via the Holy Spirit, to every individual. God reveals Himself in all creation around you. God reveals Himself in the Holy Sacraments. And you also have an erroneous belief that we do not believe in prophets, we do, some Catholics including Cardinals and Popes have been very profound in their prophecies. We see prophecy as one of the many ways in which God reveals His will.

**God the Son revealed all that is required for our salvation, perfectly, and completely. He revealed God’s LOVE, perfectly.

A better question is, why do Mormons believe that there is MORE necessary than this?
**
 
I agree, so why doesn’t the catholic church say they receive revelation? That’s been my question.
 
You just said your bishops receive guidance from the holy ghost. That is revelation.
 
falisrm, reading through this, I think you are confusing two points.

Doctrinal revelation ended with God’s WORD, Jesus Christ.

Personal revelation, that is, God guiding us to Him, continues and will always continue.

“US”, is you, I, and every human that has ever been born.

“US” is also God’s Church. God guides His Church through revelation, His will is made known to our Bishop’s and most especially the Pope and Majesterium.
 
What sort of revelations have the Mormon Church authorities had?
 
One more thing to add, that I hope clarifies…

When we say God guides us to Him, this is better defined by God revealing Himself to us. How else do you know God other than by Him revealing Himself to you.

So to go into a personal experience, coming from atheism, how did I get to where I have Faith? God revealed Himself, by guiding me to Him. When I pray and ask God to guide me to Him, it wasn’t like I hitched myself to a Godly guide dog and tada! here I am. No, it was revelation my friend, pure, true and simple.

No visions, no dreams, not anything prophetic, just God, revealing Himself to me because I asked Him to.

Do you understand this, as a form of revelation?
 
i agree with that but i’m still confused. I need to read about it some more and review this thread because i’m getting different statements all over the place. I’m probably the only one confused about this.
 
falisrm said:
i agree with that but i’m still confused. I need to read about it some more and review this thread because i’m getting different statements all over the place. I’m probably the only one confused about this.
Click to expand...
Hi falisrm,

Fellow Mormon here, so maybe I can translate if I have it right.

Catholics believe that all Public Revelation ceased with the Apostles. Private Revelation continued–i.e., God still reveals Himself to individual people, but the content of these revelations is either a) nothing new, or b) meant only for the individual, and is not binding on the general church.

That part is pretty easy to understand, I think, but here’s the hard part for Mormons to get a handle on. Catholic doctrine has not been static since the Apostles–they acknowledge freely that there has been quite a bit of “doctrinal development.” (Google John Henry Newman for some background on this.) Mormons just don’t get it–how can there be “doctrinal development” if there is no new public revelation? We believe in “doctrinal development,” too, but attribute it to new revelations that shed new light on old subjects. To make matters worse, Catholics will often talk about how the Holy Spirit guided various Ecumenical Councils, etc., to formalize various doctrinal developments. Well, if the Holy Spirit guides it, how can it not be a revelation? From the Catholic point of view, however, nothing new has been revealed–the Holy Spirit has just led the Church to a better understanding of what was already revealed.

So if you ask me, there really isn’t as much difference between Mormons and Catholics on this issue as you might think. My only problem with the Catholic point of view is that I think it is ridiculous to say that something the Church never understood before was already “revealed.” The word “revealed” necessarily implies understanding, IMHO.

Hope that helps, and that I didn’t botch my description of Catholic beliefs.
 
that makes a lot of sense and that was what i was getting out of it. So there is a lot of simularities with what Mormons believe and what Catholics believe. The biggest problem out of it is they refuse to call it revelation. That is so so clear. I just never heard within the catholic church say they understood doctrine or principles because the holy ghost taught them it (does that happen in the catholic church)

Well, the real problem is then is what the revealed doctrine is because obviously, The actual doctrines are completely different from one another. Take for example, origional sin.
 
BDawg said:
So if you ask me, there really isn’t as much difference between Mormons and Catholics on this issue as you might think. My only problem with the Catholic point of view is that I think it is ridiculous to say that something the Church never understood before was already “revealed.” The word “revealed” necessarily implies understanding, IMHO.

Hope that helps, and that I didn’t botch my description of Catholic beliefs.
Click to expand...
The word revealed does not imply understanding. If it were so, then you would understand God, perfectly, as He has revealed Himself so.
 
Ok, lets start over, this is one of the hardest things to comprehend so far. So Catholics believe that revelation for the church or revealed doctrine ended with the apostles. So its just a matter of figuring it out through inspiration with the Holy Ghost as they develop traditions and customs based on the doctrines and principles of the gospel that was already revealed.

That i understand. So the part where they receive revelation or inspiration from the Holy Ghost for their traditions, what do they call that? They also call it revelation? That’s basically what we believe too. Why didn’t anyone say so.
 
But “revelation”, and theHoly Spirit does guiding a council does not contradict Scripture, or create new scripture. In the LDS case, it can, and does.
 
falisrm said:
That i understand. So the part where they receive revelation or inspiration from the Holy Ghost for their traditions, what do they call that? They also call it revelation? That’s basically what we believe too. Why didn’t anyone say so.
Click to expand...
Yes, also called revelation, and I did say so.
 
falisrm said:
that makes a lot of sense and that was what i was getting out of it. So there is a lot of simularities with what Mormons believe and what Catholics believe. The biggest problem out of it is they refuse to call it revelation. That is so so clear. I just never heard within the catholic church say they understood doctrine or principles because the holy ghost taught them it (does that happen in the catholic church)
Click to expand...
We believe very strongly that the Holy Spirit “instructs the hearts of the faithful,” as we pray in a prayer asking the Holy Spirit to do just that. (See the link below.) That instruction opens us to be more receptive to the truths of doctrine and morality that we learn in and through Christ’s Church. His instruction also “reveals” to us those areas in our lives that need work: patience, humility, charity, prudence, piety, fortitude, etc…

miraclerosarymission.org/chs.htm
 
So if the pope receives revelation, its no different then saying the leader of the LDS church receives revelation. Its the same concept
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top