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CyrilSebastian

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At some of the Catholic churches the congregation is asked for their (name removed by moderator)ut on church matters. A few examples:
  1. Where should the Blessed Virgin statue be relocated?
  2. What time should the earliest Sunday Mass be for the new schedule?
    The people give their suggestions in writing or by voice.
    Here is the sad part:
    Nothing is done according to their suggestions. Are these people not part of the Church?
 
In most cases, in my opinion, when questions such as these are asked, it is to give the appearance of transparency and openness. In some cases, the suggestions are actually taken to heart. In most, I believe the decision has already been made and this just a formality.

I think it all goes back to our American ideals of 1 man, 1 vote and that everything is a democracy.
 
Oneofthewomen said:
In most cases, in my opinion, when questions such as these are asked, it is to give the appearance of transparency and openness. In some cases, the suggestions are actually taken to heart. In most, I believe the decision has already been made and this just a formality.

I think it all goes back to our American ideals of 1 man, 1 vote and that everything is a democracy.
Click to expand...
I agree.

which begs the question, why bother pretending?

reasonable people don’t expect to have a voice in every little decision, and if have already made a decision and are not going to change that no matter what anyone says, why waste everyone’s time and energy?

if people actually want to appear transparent, they actually have to do it
 
Of course, if not many (name removed by moderator)uts are received, then the church officials may choose ‘as they see best…’
 
Sounds like the priest was bullied into putting out a questionnaire that he has no intention of addressing.
The church is not a democracy.
The priest is in charge, and is most often the best person to make decisions for his flock.
His flock need to understand this.
you should never bully a priest. People try this tactic all the time. “Do this, or I’ll stop giving”. It’s shameful, not sad.
 
pianistclare said:
Sounds like the priest was bullied into putting out a questionnaire that he has no intention of addressing.
The church is not a democracy.
The priest is in charge, and is most often the best person to make decisions for his flock.
His flock need to understand this.
you should never bully a priest. People try this tactic all the time. “Do this, or I’ll stop giving”. It’s shameful, not sad.
Click to expand...
👍
 
CyrilSebastian said:
At some of the Catholic churches the congregation is asked for their (name removed by moderator)ut on church matters. A few examples:
  1. Where should the Blessed Virgin statue be relocated?
  2. What time should the earliest Sunday Mass be for the new schedule?
    The people give their suggestions in writing or by voice.
    Here is the sad part:
    Nothing is done according to their suggestions. Are these people not part of the Church?
Click to expand...
It’s just typical politics. Goes on everywhere. CS, as long as everything is licit and valid, the Eucharist is offered and you receive it, it’s really all you need from a church. Make your contribution, support the church financially, and go home happy that the Lord was brought to you again.

When I encounter a situation like this at my church, or anywhere for that matter, I remember two rules.

#1 Don’t sweat the small stuff
#2 Everything is small stuff.

Shalom
 
CyrilSebastian said:
At some of the Catholic churches the congregation is asked for their (name removed by moderator)ut on church matters. A few examples:
  1. Where should the Blessed Virgin statue be relocated?
  2. What time should the earliest Sunday Mass be for the new schedule?
    The people give their suggestions in writing or by voice.
    Here is the sad part:
    Nothing is done according to their suggestions. Are these people not part of the Church?
Click to expand...
Do the congregations yield unanimous suggestions?

Or is there a plurality of suggestions, which (I imagine) it would be impossible to satisfy everyone?

tee
 
Questions such as these are the topic of discussion at the Church Council meetings. Members give their suggestions/recommendations; however; the final decision rests with the Pastor.
 
Long ago now we voted on the time for the Saturday evening Mass. Vote was for the Mass to be at 4:30 instead of 7 p.m. because the older people who attend would much prefer not to be out so long after dark in the winter. I’m not stupid, I kept the ballots. Fast forward 10 years and there are complaints about the time for Mass.

“Well, we voted on that many years ago. It was changed from 7 p.m. to 4:30 p.m. based on the ballots. The congregation at that Mass has barely changed since that day.”
“We didn’t vote, I’d remember if we voted.”
Going to the drawer to pull out the envelopes: “Here are the ballots, would you like to count them?”
 
How do the people who’s suggestions weren’t followed know that a greater number of people didn’t suggest the opposite?
 
CyrilSebastian said:
At some of the Catholic churches the congregation is asked for their (name removed by moderator)ut on church matters. A few examples:
  1. Where should the Blessed Virgin statue be relocated?
  2. What time should the earliest Sunday Mass be for the new schedule?
    The people give their suggestions in writing or by voice.
    Here is the sad part:
    Nothing is done according to their suggestions. Are these people not part of the Church?
Click to expand...
And that is just what they were, suggestions not demands:D
Because advice is sought does not mean that the seeker has to follow it. Nor does it mean the seeker spitefully did not heed the advice given.
 
Oneofthewomen said:
In most cases, in my opinion, when questions such as these are asked, it is to give the appearance of transparency and openness. In some cases, the suggestions are actually taken to heart. In most, I believe the decision has already been made and this just a formality.

I think it all goes back to our American ideals of 1 man, 1 vote and that everything is a democracy.
Click to expand...
given the questions involved one could easily assume that the location is a result of the combined suggestions,
given that perhaps there was too much a spread in the new Mass times suggested it was just as well to stick to the plan.
 
fbl9 said:
And that is just what they were, suggestions not demands:D
Because advice is sought does not mean that the seeker has to follow it. Nor does it mean the seeker spitefully did not heed the advice given.
Click to expand...
Amen.

No parish takes a vote.
The pastor decides what is best for his flock. End of story,
 
pianistclare said:
Sounds like the priest was bullied into putting out a questionnaire that he has no intention of addressing.
The church is not a democracy.
The priest is in charge, and is most often the best person to make decisions for his flock.
His flock need to understand this.
you should never bully a priest. People try this tactic all the time. “Do this, or I’ll stop giving”. It’s shameful, not sad.
Click to expand...
True.

Last Holy Week, our new pastor praised the church workers and the parishioners for being receptive and obedient to him.
 
CyrilSebastian said:
At some of the Catholic churches the congregation is asked for their (name removed by moderator)ut on church matters. A few examples:
  1. Where should the Blessed Virgin statue be relocated?
  2. What time should the earliest Sunday Mass be for the new schedule?
    The people give their suggestions in writing or by voice.
    Here is the sad part:
    Nothing is done according to their suggestions. Are these people not part of the Church?
Click to expand...
There is another reason. Fear and laziness.

My parish as large as it is, has long struggled in every way possible. When the current pastor arrived over a decade ago he did something which gave me real hope. He actually engaged a local consulting firm to poll our parish members on what they felt were the problems, what they felt needed to change, etc.,etc.

The questionnaire was exceptionally well done. They were discussed at each Mass and the response was staggeringly high – almost 90% A blue chip panel was put together to analyze the (name removed by moderator)ut and to set a path for change.

That was all we ever heard.

Based on the comments from one of the panel’s members (our city mayor at the time – and also a parishioner of course), the responses were so angry and so bitter that it literally paralyzed the pastor. He never did a thing.

To change my parish (based on the results of the questionnaire) would take exceptional leadership skills and a HUGE amount of hard work to help my parish. He just wasn’t up to it for some reason.

I think not taking any action after the big build-up really bothered some people. Instead my pastor has focused on the parish’s buildings, rather than its people.
 
I think a lot of the time these sorts of consultations are just a token gesture to make people feel involved in a decision process that they in reality have no influence over. Happens at work too.
 
Some of the people are so fed up that they are not going to these churches.
 
CyrilSebastian said:
At some of the Catholic churches the congregation is asked for their (name removed by moderator)ut on church matters. A few examples:
  1. Where should the Blessed Virgin statue be relocated?
  2. What time should the earliest Sunday Mass be for the new schedule?
    The people give their suggestions in writing or by voice.
    Here is the sad part:
    Nothing is done according to their suggestions. Are these people not part of the Church?
Click to expand...
If the suggestions are also in writing how do you know those don’t out number the vocal suggestions?
 
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