Receive tongues before baptism?!

[gnome]

MaggieOH:

On the other hand, I have heard someone praying in tongues. Whilst it is true that I could not understand the prayers that were being said, I feel certain that the person (more than one person btw) was praying in a sacred language to God. One of the people that I heard is a Catholic priest and I feel certain that what he was praying fits the description from St. Paul of being able to pray like that. The other person was a charismatic and I do not doubt that he was also praying in tongues. To these people the Holy Spirit has given them a gift that few receive.

I’d like to know if you or the rest of the group could not understand, then what was the purpose of this tongue? If it was just for God, then it should be in private, according to St. Paul??
Also, I recall St. Paul saying he would rather speak five words that people can understand than a thousand words…

 

[twf]

While tongues used in public require interpretation…I believe that there may be a gift of tongues meant for private prayer alone. (The Spirit giving the person words…empowering him or her to pray as he or she can not on his or her own). In 1 Cor. 14:13-18, Paul does seem to be suggesting that you can indeed pray in a tongue, which is a spiritual benefit to you, but will not profit anyone else nor the mind. In verse 28 this is made even more clear. St. Paul tells us that, if there is no interpreter, the speaker should remain quiet, and speak ‘to himself and God’. So it is indeed possible to have ‘private’ tongues between God and an individual. These should not, however, be shared (like many charismatic circles do) without someone with the gift of interpretation (or unless you yourself are empowered to interpret).

The gift does exist. We can not deny that. I’ve never ‘spoken in tongues’ myself…but Paul does seem to suggest that we can seek after gifts. (Though that doesn’t mean we’ll get them). That could account, in part, for the concentration of the gift in charismatic circles. (Though I’d agree that in many cases it is not legit).

 

[Matt16_18]

CreosMary:

Well I am sorry to say this but I think the “speaking in tongues” as understood by todays charismatics is a load of over-emotive hysterical gobbledygook.

Have you ever prayed in tongues?

 

[SPOKENWORD]

If I speak with tongues of men and of Angels [1Corinth 13 :1] What do you think the Angels are doing in heaven with their angelic tongues? The are worshipping and praising God. That exactly what we do here on earth when we speak with Angelic tongues. It is perfect prayer and worship.Gods gifts to us are perfect.That is why He distributes them to Those who walk in His ways. God Bless

 

[otm]

dumspirospero:

I am sorry for being a pessimist…but I go to an Indult TLM Church and I have never heard anyone speak about them experiencing the gift of tongues or knowing anyone who has…I am not saying that it doesn’t happen by any means…but it seems today that everyother person is claiming they have the gift…so that leads me to wonder:

1)Why in the 2,000 + years of Catholicism, are we just now seeing wide spread and numerous cases of people speaking in tongues?
2)Are CAtholics who celebrate the TLM not worthy of these gifts…and if we are, then why do they only seem to be reserved for Charismatic groups? I find it hard to believe that they have been doing something wrong for 2,000 years.

This is just something I don’t really understand…and I may be wrong, but I believe that the majority of these incidents in modern history of people speaking in tongues is either A) a hoax…someone is doing it deceitfully, or B) it is the work of not The Holy Spirit…but of someone else (you know who I am talking about)

Plus…how many times when people claim to speak in tongues is all the criteria met for it to be considered valid?

I am just a skeptic of all of this and out of all the Masses I have ever attended both TLM and Novus Ordo…I have never, ever seen it happen…nor have I seen in happen outside of Church…IWhy is that? I guess Orthodox Catholics just aren’t worthy to receive the gift.

It is not an issue of worthiness to receive the gift. No one is worthy. The gifts of the Spirit are given for the benefit of the Church, not the recipient.

You might ask yourself how many pople you know have asked for these gifts? Or better yet, ask them. I suspect you will find that none have; or perhaps you will find one here and there who has asked, and possibly even received.

Skepticism is understandable. We all profess to believe in miracles, and it is eminently easier to believe in miracles when one does not have to confront an actual miracle.

The gift of tongues is but one of the gifts of the Spirit, and Paul tells us not even a very highley rated one. and it should be noted that there are really two gifts of tongues. One is a prayer tongue, used for private prayer and praise. It is not necessarily a known language, but rather an individual private prayer language. The other tongue is a known language, and according to Paul, is to be used when there is someone with the gift of interpretation present (or someone who understands the language; either a native speaker or someone who has studied the language).

Given the fact the John Paul 2 has spoken highly of the Charismatice movement, and any number of people who are true to the Magisterium have received various gifts of the Spirit, you might rest assured that it is real

Oh, two people who come to mind: Sister Ann Shields and Father Michael Tor (past president of Steubenville University). So I would challenge you that Orthodox Catholics do not receive the gift.

And as far as seeing it at a Mass, that is generally not considered the forum for the exercise of the gifts, particularly as it would be distracting.

Why are we seeing it now? Perhaps because it was specifically asked for. But the ultimate reason is with God.

As far as the rest of the gifts (and you should read Acts to review those), it may well be that people in your own parish have some of those gifts, but do not particularly see them as gifts, or do not identify them as gifts of the Spirit. That does not make them less gifted.

 

[otm]

MBS1:

As Dr. Colossus noted, in scripture, those speaking in “true tongues” always had to have a way for someone to understand it. Otherwise, it is really pure gibberish.

Madaglan - you should ask your friend who interprets her “tongues”. If she says no one can, that is not speaking in tongues.

On their home-page, Catholics Answers has information on this topic. Just put the word “tongues” into the “search” area. They have a tract on The Nature of Tongues.
MBS1

perhaps, and perhaps not. There are two gifts of tongues; one is for public use (if you will) and is to be used when an interpreter is present. The other is often referred to as a prayer tongue, and is to be used privatly, in prayer.

 

[otm]

CreosMary:

Well I am sorry to say this but I think the “speaking in tongues” as understood by todays charismatics is a load of over-emotive hysterical gobbledygook.
I have been to such groups and there tends to be a protestantisation of the Church in these groups, No reverence for our Lady, a casualisation of the Mass, an overabundace of over 50’s mediterrainian women, and worst of all a sense that somehow they are Super-Christians.
I have had one tell me that you don’t have to believe in the Assumption to be Catholic and after serving at a Mass for the Charomaniacs, I was asked if I would be converting now!!!
By thier fruits will you know them.
I think the poster who mentions St Pauls letter to the Corinthians to be right on track. Personally I think the historical “speaking in tongues” meant those who could communicate the Gospel in any tongue needed to convert the foriegner.
I do not intend to offend one who genuinely believes they have this “gift” but ask them to evaluate what use is it and to what ends does it bring one.

I am sorry that you had the experience you did. John Paul 2 has spoken highly of the Charismatic movement; he has also warned that it can easily go astray. Please do not assume that all groups are like the one you came across.

 

[Bennypio]

In reference to those who are skeptical about the “speaking in tongue” experience; I can imagine they have good reasons to be. How do we know the veracity of a charismatic gifts these days? But like someone said: “By their fruits you shall know them” But on the other hand we should be open to the objective truth that this gift is real in the catholic charistmatic movement. And I can assure you that the Holy Father’s support for the Charismatic movement in the Catholic church is an assurance that what they do, under the supervision of church authority is orthodox. Catholic orthodoxy is not limited to a personal experience. It is an expression of whatever is biblical and traditional and as interpreted by the magisterium. There are lots of orthodox catholics today like Fr Raneiro Cantalamessia, preacher to the Papal household who have had the charismatic experience and have spoken highly of it. It all depends on who you meet claiming to speak or pray in tongues. Like every other gifts of the spirit, you can find abuses. But we should not throw the baby away with the dirty bath water!