Received a rose but specific request rejected?

[houston1]

CAF members,

I am puzzled and need your (name removed by moderator)ut. Has anyone ever received a rose from St. Therese, the Little Flower, and not have their prayer request granted?

At the end of March, I prayed a novena to St. Therese and asked her for confirmation that I would become friends with a certain person (in this life and not just the afterlife) and that I wanted a real rose (not a picture, artificial one, etc.) as confirmation. Within the first days of the novena, an unexpected rose bush appeared in my front yard. Here is a link to the thread where I discussed this on the CAF.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=871498

My request is specific and something longstanding that I have desired for now over two years. I have asked God time and time for confirmation that I should pursue this friendship and believed that He was leading me this way through various confirmations. I have tried to be faithful to any inspirations of the Holy Spirit. I have made some progress with developing some kind of friendly relationship with this person but the other person does not seem receptive to developing a friendship, per se. Due to the position of this person, I cannot just say, “can you be my friend, can we go to lunch, etc.” Lack of prudence would kick in here.

I have run out of ideas and am facing what appears a hopeless situation. I have sought counsel from numerous persons, prayed unceasingly on this, and have done everything reasonably possible to bring about a friendship. However, I am at a dead end. I am starting to believe that God never intends to grant my request and that the rose and other confirmations only meant that He has heard my prayers so that I would not despair.

Has anyone experienced something similar to this where you asked for something specific, received a rose from St. Therese, but did not receive your request?

Thanks and God bless you.

houston1

 

[Dorothy]

No, that has not happened to me, but once I was reminded that if we get a thorn we should accept it.

There is the free will of the person you mentioned…and also for reasons known only to God you may not receive the answer you are looking for.

A whole rose bush! Trust the Lord!

 

[Joe_5859]

Since you got a bud and not a flower, maybe St. Therese is telling you that it will take time before the flowers come.

 

[houston1]

No, that has not happened to me, but once I was reminded that if we get a thorn we should accept it.

There is the free will of the person you mentioned…and also for reasons known only to God you may not receive the answer you are looking for.

A whole rose bush! Trust the Lord!

Dorothy, thank you for your response. The last two years has been a thorn and an interior trial beyond anything I’ve experienced. I spent the 1st year in begging God to away my desire and tried to avoid the person (although not completely due to my circumstances). Then, and through counsel, I have actively sought the friendship.

If God does not intend to grant my request, why won’t He remove the desire?

Houston1

 

[Loving_disciple]

It might be Gods will that you don’t have a relationship with this person. If that is the case then obey The Lord. God might know that this person is not good or right for you so he is trying to protect you.

 

[InLight247]

I have prayed to St. Therese and actually “received” roses. A bouquet was given to me. My request was not fulfilled any time soon after my Novena prayer and the sign. But the prayer did come true several years later. I continued to pray during those years.

My prayer request was not toward any specific person. When it involves another’s free will you could only do your best and see how it goes. Do all you can with good tactics to seek after the friendship you desire and trust God with the rest. God bless!

 

[houston1]

It might be Gods will that you don’t have a relationship with this person. If that is the case then obey The Lord. God might know that this person is not good or right for you so he is trying to protect you.

Then what do I do with the desire? How do I discern God’s will? What did the rose mean?

 

[houston1]

I have prayed to St. Therese and actually “received” roses. A bouquet was given to me. My request was not fulfilled any time soon after my Novena prayer and the sign. But the prayer did come true several years later. I continued to pray during those years.

My prayer request was not toward any specific person. When it involves another’s free will you could only do your best and see how it goes. Do all you can with good tactics to seek after the friendship you desire and trust God with the rest. God bless!

Inlight, thank you for your testimony. Did your desire involve intense mental suffering at any point? For me, this has been a very painful interior trial, sometimes intense and sometimes not at all. It is also something that I would prefer not to want. No matter how much I pray, the desire remains and I cannot easily avoid the circumstances in which I see this person. This person, btw, is a holy person and I have no qualms about the moral aspects of this.

I really try to live in the present moment in spite of this being ever present on my mind. Inlight, how was your experience while waiting?

Houston1

 

[InLight247]

Inlight, thank you for your testimony. Did your desire involve intense mental suffering at any point? For me, this has been a very painful interior trial, sometimes intense and sometimes not at all. It is also something that I would prefer not to want. No matter how much I pray, the desire remains and I cannot easily avoid the circumstances in which I see this person. This person, btw, is a holy person and I have no qualms about the moral aspects of this.

I really try to live in the present moment in spite of this being ever present on my mind. Inlight, how was your experience while waiting?

Houston1

I can understand the part of “being ever present on my mind”. I felt “long suffering” during those years. It has been many years before I prayed St. Therese Novena. There were still a few years after receiving the roses before my prayer request fulfilled. It was long suffering. Did I have mental anguish? You bet. Like you said, sometimes my anguish was intense, sometimes my faith was strong enough and I didn’t worry at all. But I prayed for that intention every day, earnestly. God certainly taught me patience and trust.

As for your prayer intention, at first I thought you might have a romance crush on someone. But you said it is a holy person and there is no moral issue. So I am clueless. Suppose you desire for a spiritual relationship with someone, for example, if you want a priest to be your spiritual director, could you not just ask him? If he said no, then look for someone else. I am probably totally missing the target. PM me if you want to talk in private.

 

[Gina_Lee]

I too received a rose and the intention was ‘denied’. I found out twenty years later that while my prayer was answered the person of the intention denied the grace.

 

[Pilsen]

Houston1

I would accept this rose from St Therese as a good sign you will become friends. Although it is something you need to discern, it seems as though God has put this desire for this friendship in your heart and mind. The rose is a sure sign. This friendship may take some time to evolve and you may just have to be patient. But be rest assured that Heaven has sent you a confirmation that this friendship will be a reality - the timing of which only God knows.

I can understand your mental frustration completely. When you are frustrated, I recommend talking openly to St Therese (as a friend, because she cares for you) and telling her what you are struggling with this person. You can do this informally. It works trust me.

Yes there is the free will of the other person, but remember that God is in control of the situations and circumstances around you both. If God favors this, it will happen. You wouldn’t get the rose if it was a mere possibility. Be patient, God is doing something. It could take awhile for it to unfold though.

 

[houston1]

I too received a rose and the intention was ‘denied’. I found out twenty years later that while my prayer was answered the person of the intention denied the grace.

Gina Lee,

How do you know that the person denied the grace? I do not understand how your prayer was answered then. Please explain. I really would like to know.

Thanks.

houston1

 

[Trishie]

WE do not always know what is best for ourselves.
You may believe this friendship is desirable, but God knows what you do not know, some consequence that you cannot guess might in the end result from this friendship.
Sometimes God’s kindest request is to refuse it.

Saint Therese herself did not receive all that she asked for. Despite her prayer and desire to enter the Carmelite convent immediately, she was disappointed to have to wait.
She did come to see the grace in waiting, so she knew then that God had known best in refusing her. It also means that God knows you are capable of growing into someone who doesn’t just seek and desire what the ‘want’ but what God knows they need, and not to be too caught up in earthly desires, but to have spiritual aspirations.

St Therese wrote that if a father preventing his child from falling and breaking his leg, but that child was unaware that he/she had been saved from a fall that would have broken the leg, that father’s love is greater than a father who let the child fall.

Appreciate the grace of the rosebush, that is the answer, do not overlook it. The rosebush says you are loved and heard, but you are denied the gift, however God will have given another gift, a spiritual one, which is more valuable than you asked for, even if at this time it may be hidden.

St Therese’s autobiography
ccel.org/ccel/therese/autobio.toc.html

 

[houston1]

I can understand the part of “being ever present on my mind”. I felt “long suffering” during those years. It has been many years before I prayed St. Therese Novena. There were still a few years after receiving the roses before my prayer request fulfilled. It was long suffering. Did I have mental anguish? You bet. Like you said, sometimes my anguish was intense, sometimes my faith was strong enough and I didn’t worry at all. But I prayed for that intention every day, earnestly. God certainly taught me patience and trust.

As for your prayer intention, at first I thought you might have a romance crush on someone. But you said it is a holy person and there is no moral issue. So I am clueless. Suppose you desire for a spiritual relationship with someone, for example, if you want a priest to be your spiritual director, could you not just ask him? If he said no, then look for someone else. I am probably totally missing the target. PM me if you want to talk in private.

InLight,

Ok, so the friend who I want is the priest (soon to be pastor) in my parish. I guess there’s no harm in telling the CAF. At first, I thought the desire was for spiritual direction. But, he was not open to doing spiritual direction for parishioners. So, I accepted that and found another priest as my spiritual director who has given me good counsel on this and other matters.

I now believe that my desire relates to my being able to help our parish in various ways. At this point, the priest in my parish has accepted some of my help and he seems to like me well enough. But, he doesn’t always respond to my offers for help (for whatever reason - being too busy, not knowing how to carve pieces out to me, not wanting to impose, etc.). Others in my parish have noted that he tends to micromanage things. So, this could also be a factor.

I really want to help him and our parish. In addition, I would like to have more than just friendly acquaintance status with him. Since I attend Mass on a daily basis, I see this priest almost every day. Since the Mass and parish are such an integral part of my life, my desire for a closer relationship with this priest seems reasonable. That is why I desire a friendship of some sort and would actually like to work with him on projects related to the parish. Of course, I want God’s will above all things. Yet, it would seem to me that, in the words of St. Therese, “God cannot inspire unrealizable desires.” Since I have been praying and discerning this for now over two years, wouldn’t God take this desire away from me if He wasn’t willing to fulfill it?

I am very interested in knowing your comments on this and your personal story about your rose. Would you mind my sending you a PM about it?

houston1

 

[houston1]

WE do not always know what is best for ourselves.
You may believe this friendship is desirable, but God knows what you do not know, some consequence that you cannot guess might in the end result from this friendship.
Sometimes God’s kindest request is to refuse it.

Saint Therese herself did not receive all that she asked for. Despite her prayer and desire to enter the Carmelite convent immediately, she was disappointed to have to wait.
She did come to see the grace in waiting, so she knew then that God had known best in refusing her. It also means that God knows you are capable of growing into someone who doesn’t just seek and desire what the ‘want’ but what God knows they need, and not to be too caught up in earthly desires, but to have spiritual aspirations.

St Therese wrote that if a father preventing his child from falling and breaking his leg, but that child was unaware that he/she had been saved from a fall that would have broken the leg, that father’s love is greater than a father who let the child fall.

Appreciate the grace of the rosebush, that is the answer, do not overlook it. The rosebush says you are loved and heard, but you are denied the gift, however God will have given another gift, a spiritual one, which is more valuable than you asked for, even if at this time it may be hidden.

St Therese’s autobiography
ccel.org/ccel/therese/autobio.toc.html

Trishie,

Thank you for your response. Certainly I agree that God is not a gumball machine to say “yes” to every request prayed on a whim. My desire is not a whim. It is one that I have prayerfully discerned and actually ran from and denied for the first year until, through spiritual direction, embraced it to see where God would lead me. I am now entering my third year with this desire.

I also studied St. Therese and the specific example that you mention regarding the denial of her first attempt to enter Carmelite convent. Yet, she did eventually obtain what she desired with her later entry into the order. Perhaps, this should be a testimony that often our prayer requests are denied not because they are not holy and good but that we fail to persist in prayer with an obedience to the inspirations of the Holy Spirit to lead us where God wants us to be.

Thank you for your answer.
houston1

 

[houston1]

Houston1

I would accept this rose from St Therese as a good sign you will become friends. Although it is something you need to discern, it seems as though God has put this desire for this friendship in your heart and mind. The rose is a sure sign. This friendship may take some time to evolve and you may just have to be patient. But be rest assured that Heaven has sent you a confirmation that this friendship will be a reality - the timing of which only God knows.

I can understand your mental frustration completely. When you are frustrated, I recommend talking openly to St Therese (as a friend, because she cares for you) and telling her what you are struggling with this person. You can do this informally. It works trust me.

Yes there is the free will of the other person, but remember that God is in control of the situations and circumstances around you both. If God favors this, it will happen. You wouldn’t get the rose if it was a mere possibility. Be patient, God is doing something. It could take awhile for it to unfold though.

Pilsen,

Thank you for your very encouraging response. My hope is just as you say. God is certainly doing something and He wouldn’t give me confirmation after confirmation if He did not intend to fulfill my request. St. Therese, herself, said that “we obtain from God as much as we hope for.” So, I still hope for this friendship in spite of my recent setbacks and discouragement. My hope is renewed.

Thank you. May God bless you and all those who posted on my question.

houston1

 

[InLight247]

Based on what you said, obviously you respect and admire your soon-to-be Pastor very much. That’s why he was your first choice as the spiritual director. God must have a different plan so you got your current spiritual director.

I think it is great you genuinely want to help your Pastor and your parish. If the Pastor did not take your help when you offered, that should be totally fine and you could be totally at peace. Keep in mind we are to help others according to their needs not to our desires. I would think your first motivation is to do work for God, and you hope to develop a closer relationship with the priest along the way. You said he has taken some of your help. So in a way your prayer has already been answered.

A Pastor has to keep certain distance from his congregation. He could not and should not be body-body with everyone. Actually I think it is everyone’s responsibility to keep a proper distance with a priest. This is a protection for the priest and for the congregation. He may be transferred after a few years. It is better for everyone not to be too attached. Even so, it is hard enough when a priest is transferred. It is also better for a priest not to have a too close friendship especially with a female. We should be extra careful to protect the holy vocation.

You are attending daily Mass, doing certain service for the parish, and having a good relationship with the Pastor, that is all good.

 

[houston1]

Based on what you said, obviously you respect and admire your soon-to-be Pastor very much. That’s why he was your first choice as the spiritual director. God must have a different plan so you got your current spiritual director.

I think it is great you genuinely want to help your Pastor and your parish. If the Pastor did not take your help when you offered, that should be totally fine and you could be totally at peace. Keep in mind we are to help others according to their needs not to our desires. I would think your first motivation is to do work for God, and you hope to develop a closer relationship with the priest along the way. You said he has taken some of your help. So in a way your prayer has already been answered.

A Pastor has to keep certain distance from his congregation. He could not and should not be body-body with everyone. Actually I think it is everyone’s responsibility to keep a proper distance with a priest. This is a protection for the priest and for the congregation. He may be transferred after a few years. It is better for everyone not to be too attached. Even so, it is hard enough when a priest is transferred. It is also better for a priest not to have a too close friendship especially with a female. We should be extra careful to protect the holy vocation.

You are attending daily Mass, doing certain service for the parish, and having a good relationship with the Pastor, that is all good.

InLight,

Thank you for your sound advice and insight. As you say, I want to help where needed. Last week, my soon-to-be pastor mentioned the possible hiring of a office manager to help with maintenance and similar type stuff for the parish. That is what prompted me to email him the next day. But, I have not heard from him. After sending my email, I also followed up with his “right hand man” who works 70 to 80 hours a week for the parish. He is looking into how I can help.

A couple months ago, through the grace of God, God handed me a perfect opportunity to help on a certain project in the parish which involved communications with my soon-to-be-pastor. It just fell into my lap and the timing was critical. He accepted my help at that time because I knew exactly what it involved and there was little required on his part. This was before I received the rose bud, but it was an answer to my continuous prayers on this. I will say that God has opened up numerous ways where I had not seen any way. God has been very good to me. I can see that I need to grow in patience and trust.

I also agree with your comments on the level of friendship and will be mindful of what you say.

Thanks again for all your help.

houston1

 

[Sirach2]

I really want to help him and our parish. In addition, I would like to have more than just friendly acquaintance status with him. Since I attend Mass on a daily basis, I see this priest almost every day. Since the Mass and parish are such an integral part of my life, my desire for a closer relationship with this priest seems reasonable. That is why I desire a friendship of some sort and would actually like to work with him on projects related to the parish. Since I have been praying and discerning this for now over two years, wouldn’t God take this desire away from me if He wasn’t willing to fulfill it?

Have you considered that this may be a serious temptation? That being so, if God is not at the bottom of this desire, then He is not the one who will remove it.

What is your REAL motive here? Serving your parish in whatever means you are able? Or rather, having as a first goal, the “more than just friendly” acquaintance with this priest? You are lacking in detachment, and justifying it in the name of “serving the parish.” If serving the parish is a true inspiration, it would matter very little whether or not he is “more than friendly” with you. Follow Jesus’s teaching, “Do not let your right hand know what your left hand is doing.” And again, (Mt. 6:1) “Take heed not to do your good before men to be seen by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.”
IOW, just serve, no fanfare or recognition necessary. St. Teresa would do little things for her sisters quietly, out of love for them, and never told them. Are you willing to do likewise? To be hidden in your charity?

Also, to follow Therese’s example, she had what she called an inordinate attachment for Mother Superior. “I remember when I was still a postulant that I had such violent temptations to satisfy myself and to find a few crumbs of pleasure that I was obliged to walk rapidly by your door, and to cling firmly to the banister of the staircase in order not to turn back. There came into my mind a crowd of permissions to seek; in a words, dear Mother, I found a thousand reasons for pleasing my nature. How happy I am now for having deprived myself from the very beginning of my religious life! I already enjoy the reward promised to those who fight courageously.” (Pg. 237, Story of a Soul)

May God enlighten you as to the true source of this disquieting and persistent desire.

 

[houston1]

Sirach2,

Thanks for your post. It is very good that you are challenging my motive as it needs to be examined and exposed. Yes, I very much considered whether this was a violent temptation. That is why I was bothered by the feelings at first, for a full year actually. I had no one to talk to, no friends, no spiritual director. At the time, I thought the enemy was using these feelings to get me to quit my resolve to going to daily Mass, receiving the Eucharist daily, and going to confession weekly as these feelings developed shortly after my resolve to do so. However, per St. Ignatius of Loyola’s rules of spiritual discernment for desolation, I made no changes in my resolve and continued going to daily Mass and so forth.

At this time, I was very confused and avoided the priest out of fear and became highly intimidated by him. However, my avoiding him only perpetuated my fear even to the point that I would tremble when near him. So, what would you have done in the same situation with no one available for counsel? I could not entirely avoid this priest because of my personal circumstances, i.e., my son’s attendance at the parish school, my leading a Bible study, and other legitimate reasons.

I went along this way for some time until I finally found a spiritual director, a very knowledgeable priest with good common sense and experience. With his counsel and through much prayer and confirmations (which I thought were from God!), I decided to take a different approach to this priest. Instead of fleeing from him, I decided to become friendly toward him. What was my motive? Love of neighbor and love of God. I am confident that God called me to do this. Now I am on the pastoral council and continue to try to be friendly toward this priest, offering my help, and giving him encouragement when it seems necessary. One priest a while back thought I might have some sort of call related to helping with priestly vocations. . . I still ponder this.

I can understand your caution and why you may believe that I am vying for this priest’s attention in a disordered way. However, if you knew me personally, you would find that I am a person who stays to herself frequently and speaks very infrequently. I spend a lot of time near the tabernacle and withdraw from people in general. I am also a co-organizer of our parish rosary prayer group which evolved last Fall, which has put me in a leadership role in which I am uncomfortable. I am very uncomfortable leading anything. I am very reluctant to speak up in a group. I am not outspoken and am very reserved. It has taken great courage and the grace of God to finally reach out to this priest. Thanks be to God. I have lost my fear. I almost cannot believe it.

Because of embracing the belief that God has called me to reach out to this priest, I am no longer disturbed by my feelings toward him, not in the least. My interior trial that I refer to in the other post is primarily caused by my expectations on how and when God is going to answer my prayer request to have some friendship/formal working relationship . . . i.e., more than a friendly acquaintance with this priest as well as my constant second guessing whether my desire is from God or not. True. Having a friendship necessarily entails that I receive some sort of personal satisfaction from this. Yet, I cannot say that I am troubled by this because I really believe God has called me to do this. And, yes, I offer my help to many others within the parish, not just the priest . . . sometimes secretly, sometimes not. I try not to let my mind think about it and keep it simple.

You quote the Scripture verse of “Do not let your right hand know what your left hand is doing” and the other one but Scripture also says “Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father” (Mt. 5:16). I will have to say that I have to follow the later in this. I base this on my SD’s advice of “you need to stop second guessing yourself” and “you need to become detached from being concerned about being detached.” I often find myself immobilized with fear that I am “showing off.”

We are all tempered differently and God uses each of us in different ways for His glory. Before I underwent this interior trial, I was plagued with scruples in constant fear that I was sinning. Thanks be to God. He has cured me of my scruples.

Any further insight that you have for me would be appreciated. I may be missing something. Btw, I do believe God would remove my desire if it wasn’t from Him via some sort of enlightenment or counsel.

houston1