Receiving communion when you haven't gone to confession...

[KostyaJMJ]

I’m not to be honest. I was just wondering the church stance on it. Maybe there was some sort of loophole if it would be seriously offensive to someone.

No loophole that I know of unfortunately. If you’re going to attend a mass then you should behave as you would if you were invited to participate in the ritual of any religion you do not practice. In all of those cases it is best to “do as the romans do” out of respect for your hosts, so that would mean abstaining from the Eucharist unless you’re a catholic in good standing.

You don’t have to tell your mom why you’re not receiving the Eucharist. It will be enough to tell her you did not observe the fast or that you want to go to confession first.

 

[LilyM]

I’m not to be honest. I was just wondering the church stance on it. Maybe there was some sort of loophole if it would be seriously offensive to someone.

So you did come here under false pretences.

You seem to have intelligence. You can’t have seriously expected that Church teaching allows for such a loophole, any more than it would allow for you to murder or steal if to NOT murder or steal would offend Mum or Dad.

Now I’m not going to address your comments about the divinity of Jesus - that’s a separate topic that must be addressed in a new thread if you’d care to start one. Each thread must stick to the topics addressed in the original post.

Paul states that you will be punished in this life so that you will not be condemned with non-Christians. This is explicit and I don’t see how it can be read in any other way.

What’s this about non-Christians? Paul merely refers to those who have an improper understanding of the Sacrament or an improper disposition when receiving it - which includes ‘you’, the (undoubtedly Christian) people to whom He was writing. So the condemnation definitely applies to Christians who don’t discern the sacrament, and isn’t really related to non-Christians.

I just don’t think that I will suffer because of this. If I suffer because of this, and God is punishes me, I will accept the punishment over hurting my mother on the day of her mother’s funeral. I will gladly take any punishment that God dishes out for me to keep my mother from suffering. If that doesn’t exemplify “love your neighbor as yourself,” I don’t know what would.

Jesus didn’t even allow one of his followers to BURY their dead relative, so Christian love for your neighbour certainly doesn’t mean avoiding things that would stress them out.

Would it truly be an act of love for you if someone who totally didn’t believe in God at all professed to believe, falsely, in order to keep you in a happy but deluded state? Of course not. Love doesn’t co-exist with that level of dishonesty.

Many of the early martyrs came from Roman families who worshipped their Roman gods. By your logic they wouldn’t be sinning if they made a show of worshipping those gods to keep family relations nicey-nice. We know that they chose offence to their parents over pretending falsely to believe in those Roman gods, because THAT is Jesus’ teaching, that one must ‘hate’ one’s family - meaning at least that niceness to them is not the be-all and end-all.

According to Paul, we have died to sin and been baptized in Jesus Christ. As long as we believe, we will be righteous before God. Paul even states in Romans that Jewish rituals of repentance do not work, so why would rituals of repentance made up after Paul work better? Our repentance comes in our belief in Jesus, and even this is a bit ambiguous, because Paul himself did not believe that Jesus was one and the same with God.

Paul definitely doesn’t mention the sacrament of confession, I can tell you that much. Paul’s repentance is in belief in Jesus.

Of course ritual is useless without an actual interior disposition of repentance and sorrow for ones sins such as the Prodigal Son felt. The Church teaches so too. Scripture certainly contains ample support for the proposition that we must BOTH repent our sins AND believe, so the two aren’t one and the same thing although they usually go together.

By the way, James is very big on ritual confession of our sins ‘to each other’, and his epistle is as much scripture as any of Paul’s.

But as you have neither the ritual nor the necessary interior disposition of repentance, all this is very much a moot point in your case.

Can you find me a passage from Jesus about premarital sex?

Oh, I see, your scripture, your word of God, only contains four books labelled Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, does it? And only those parts of the Gospels that are direct quotes from Jesus, no less? Must be a very short set of scriptures then.

Interesting that you’re happy to rely on Paul when you think he supports your view, but not when you know he supports mine. It’s in the New Testament that premarital sex is gravely offensive to God, that’s more than enough authority for the proposition.

 

[Christopher68]

I have a question regarding the prayer that we say before communion -

‘Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed’.

In what way does this mitigate the need for confession prior to receiving communion? And if it does not mitigate the need for confession, then why do we say it?

 

[hellopeople]

Interesting that you’re happy to rely on Paul when you think he supports your view, but not when you know he supports mine. It’s in the New Testament that premarital sex is gravely offensive to God, that’s more than enough authority for the proposition.

I am just wondering why, if premarital sex is such a big deal, did the gospel writers not mention Jesus ever saying anything about it at all? Actually, the only sexual acts he talks about, to my knowledge at least, is adultery. Which goes with “love your neighbor.” The church makes such a big deal about things that were obviously not important to Jesus (or at least in the opinions of the gospel writers). It is silly to be honest.

 

[LilyM]

I have a question regarding the prayer that we say before communion -

‘Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed’.

In what way does this mitigate the need for confession prior to receiving communion? And if it does not mitigate the need for confession, then why do we say it?

It doesn’t mitigate the need for confession of mortal sins any more than the penitential rite (the ‘I confess’ and/or ‘Lord Have Mercy’) does. Mortal sins are always required to be sacramentally confessed where this is possible, and one should not receive communion without having confessed.

We nevertheless say both of these prayers as an acknowledgement that ALL sin, even the venial that we do not need to confess, separates us from God and makes us less than worthy to receive Him. And further these prayers express that we need to confront our sinfulness in all its forms and ask for His mercy and healing in order to BECOME worthy.

 

[wolfgang]

 

[dusza]

To be honest I went to a Catholic grammar school and high school and I do not ever remember being told that you cannot receive communion if you are in a state of sin. I am pretty sure that not going to confession would not be a good reason in my mother’s eyes to not receive communion.

That’s a sad commentary on Catholic education. I’m sure if you pick up and copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church or simply click here, you’ll read a lot of things you weren’t taught in Catholic school.

I believe your ultimate calling is to go to heaven, not to please your mom. My parents are non-believers. I’m kind to them, I pray for them, but they know better than to try to question my faith. We’ve already had the talk about honoring one’s parents, but loving God above all else. If you can dispense with the first commandment, why not with the fourth? But, that’s a discussion for another day.

 

[LilyM]

I am just wondering why, if premarital sex is such a big deal, did the gospel writers not mention Jesus ever saying anything about it at all? Actually, the only sexual acts he talks about, to my knowledge at least, is adultery. Which goes with “love your neighbor.” The church makes such a big deal about things that were obviously not important to Jesus (or at least in the opinions of the gospel writers). It is silly to be honest.

EVERY word Jesus spoke was indeed ‘a big deal’. EVERY word that proceeds from Jesus’ divine mouth is of utmost importance. His word is so important that it brings things into being, as it was through Him that all things were created. Yet we ALSO know that not everything Jesus said or did was recorded - John says exactly that.

So there were indeed important things that were not recorded in Scripture, let alone in the Gospels. Such as, for example, any hint at a command by Jesus to WRITE His words down in the first place! It’s obviously extremely important that they WERE recorded, and their recording was inspired by the Holy Spirit, but not by a direct command of Jesus.

We ALSO know that He didn’t teach the Apostles everything there was to know while He was on earth - in fact the reason He promised the Holy Spirit to them was that so IT would lead them into all truth, and complete the task which He had only begun.

That means they did NOT explicitly possess all important teachings at the moment of the Ascension, but were guided by the Holy Spirit AFTER Pentecost into truths that were obviously equally important (otherwise Jesus wouldn’t bother sending the Holy Spirit to continue teaching them).

Hence the continuation of teaching - through the writing of the scriptural epistles. Why write them if there were not further important truths - beyond those contained in the Gospels or the remembered words of Christ themselves - that needed to be stated and taught?

 

[Disciple4Christ]

27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. **29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world. **

Look at the part that I bolded. Paul is stating that if you eat the bread and drink the blood in an unworthy state, we are disciplined here and now in this world. He says that we are judged by the lord, and we are disciplined (hence why people are weak, sick, and asleep) and this discipline is so that we will NOT be condemned with the world. So, according to paul, if God disapproves of the state I was in when I received communion, I will be disciplined here and now, and not in the after life.

Sigh: I don’t see, I don’t see, I don’t see, said the blind man.
Let me explain this in a way you might see. If your mommy sees you reaching for the hot burner of the stove and tells you stop and you keep reaching so she slaps your little hand, you have recieved judgement and punishment but if you still reach out and touch the burner you will still be burned. Same thing here God slaps your hand to stop you from continuing to sin ie…“weak and sick” if you still continue you will be burned.
GET IT
Some day I pray you will look back to regret these behaviors then you will repent confess and be forgiven. Note I said I pray, you never know when your time is up might be a drunk driver around the corner and it will be to late. Eternity is a long long long time. Heaven or Hell your choice.

 

[hellopeople]

That’s a sad commentary on Catholic education. I’m sure if you pick up and copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church or simply click here, you’ll read a lot of things you weren’t taught in Catholic school.

I believe your ultimate calling is to go to heaven, not to please your mom. My parents are non-believers. I’m kind to them, I pray for them, but they know better than to try to question my faith. We’ve already had the talk about honoring one’s parents, but loving God above all else. If you can dispense with the first commandment, why not with the fourth? But, that’s a discussion for another day.

When Jesus said which commandments one should follow, he didn’t mention the first.

 

[hellopeople]

Sigh: I don’t see, I don’t see, I don’t see, said the blind man.
Let me explain this in a way you might see. If your mommy sees you reaching for the hot burner of the stove and tells you stop and you keep reaching so she slaps your little hand, you have recieved judgement and punishment but if you still reach out and touch the burner you will still be burned. Same thing here God slaps your hand to stop you from continuing to sin ie…“weak and sick” if you still continue you will be burned.
GET IT
Some day I pray you will look back to regret these behaviors then you will repent confess and be forgiven. Note I said I pray, you never know when your time is up might be a drunk driver around the corner and it will be to late. Eternity is a long long long time. Heaven or Hell your choice.

I don’t understand your interpretation. Paul explicitly states that you will get punished in this life so that you will not be judged with non Christians when you die. Thus, it will not stop you from going to heaven if you do this. Please explain how this isn’t what Paul wasn’t trying to say. This time try to do it without a condescending analogy.

 

[LilyM]

When Jesus said which commandments one should follow, he didn’t mention the first.

By your previous logic, then, since Jesus didn’t mention it or at least the Gospel writers didn’t record such a mention, the first commandment is unimportant and we are free to worship as many false gods as we please.

I don’t understand your interpretation. Paul explicitly states that you will get punished in this life so that you will not be judged with non Christians when you die. Thus, it will not stop you from going to heaven if you do this. Please explain how this isn’t what Paul wasn’t trying to say. This time try to do it without a condescending analogy.

No - by that logic we would get equally punished for ALL our guilt, of every kind, not just for this particular offence, merely on earth, and in so doing would never suffer for ANY of it after death.

Also, by your logic, since non-believers clearly ALSO get punished for their sins - Pharaoh and the Egyptians were for theirs, remember, Nebuchadnezzar was for his and so on - THEY also would escape condemnation by this means.

Put it this way - do you believe in a Hell? Do you believe that any self-professed Christians end up there? If you don’t, then you are out of whack with scripture - St Paul talks about disciplining his body ‘lest I be disqualified’. If anyone was guaranteed salvation merely by belief in Christ then Paul was, so whence comes this possibility of disqualification for himself?

 

[dusza]

When Jesus said which commandments one should follow, he didn’t mention the first.

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.
Matthew 22:36-40

 

[hellopeople]

By your previous logic, then, since Jesus didn’t mention it or at least the Gospel writers didn’t record such a mention, the first commandment is unimportant and we are free to worship as many false gods as we please.

No - by that logic we would get equally punished for ALL our guilt, of every kind, not just for this particular offence, merely on earth, and in so doing would never suffer for ANY of it after death.

Also, by your logic, since non-believers clearly ALSO get punished for their sins - Pharaoh and the Egyptians were for theirs, remember, Nebuchadnezzar was for his and so on - THEY also would escape condemnation by this means.

Put it this way - do you believe in a Hell? Do you believe that any self-professed Christians end up there? If you don’t, then you are out of whack with scripture - St Paul talks about disciplining his body ‘lest I be disqualified’. If anyone was guaranteed salvation merely by belief in Christ then Paul was, so whence comes this possibility of disqualification for himself?

I don’t believe in hell.

 

[LilyM]

I don’t believe in hell.

Let’s get this straight - you don’t believe in eternal punishment for sinners? Even though Jesus promises such for them:

“it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire” (Matt. 18:8)

“these (the unrighteous) shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal” (Matt. 25:46)?

Are you saying you don’t believe in eternal punishment, AKA Hell?

 

[dusza]

Let’s get this straight - you don’t believe in eternal punishment for sinners? Even though Jesus promises such for them:

“it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire” (Matt. 18:8)

“these (the unrighteous) shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal” (Matt. 25:46)?

Are you saying you don’t believe in eternal punishment, AKA Hell?

I think he’s a troll. He asked a question, solicited advice, and then proceeded to argue about doctrine. Now, he’s just teasing. Maybe 23 is the new 13.

“And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words: going forth out of that house or city shake off the dust from your feet. Amen I say to you, it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.”
Matthew 10:14

 

[LilyM]

I think he’s a troll. He asked a question, solicited advice, and then proceeded to argue about doctrine. Now, he’s just teasing. Maybe 23 is the new 13.

“And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words: going forth out of that house or city shake off the dust from your feet. Amen I say to you, it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.”
Matthew 10:14

But we are to ‘be ready to answer anyone who asks us the reason for your hope’ (1 Peter 3:15). So I’m not quite ready to shake the dust just yet.

By the way, the existence of Hell is really a topic that should go on another thread as well - my apologies for my part in the derailment.

 

[dusza]

But we are to ‘be ready to answer anyone who asks us the reason for your hope’ (1 Peter 3:15). So I’m not quite ready to shake the dust just yet.

By the way, the existence of Hell is really a topic that should go on another thread as well - my apologies for my part in the derailment.

His last statement wasn’t a question and to me it clearly betrayed his intentions. I don’t think he’s interested in your answer.

“Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you.”
Matthew 7:6

 

[bigjohnaz]

I can’t believe how many people are passing judgement on one another. A simple explanation on how you see it would have been enough. How I see it when you first get to mass you enter the pew and repent for your sins to cleans your self from your sins and you pray before you receive the host. You go to confession for serious sins that weigh heavy on your heart. Truth of the matter is you sit and pray for forgiveness and trulyin your heart mean it you will be forgivin your sins. It’s what the bible teaches us. The last supper they the deciples weren’t with out sin when they took communion it was after when Jesus washed there feet and forgave there sins. Everyone is entitled to there own interpretation who is to say how god speaks to one another and who is right and wrong . I know its not my place if you feel it is yours go a head and say so. Remember you judge one man expect to be judge the same.

 

[LilyM]

I can’t believe how many people are passing judgement on one another. A simple explanation on how you see it would have been enough. How I see it when you first get to mass you enter the pew and repent for your sins to cleans your self from your sins and you pray before you receive the host. You go to confession for serious sins that weigh heavy on your heart. Truth of the matter is you sit and pray for forgiveness and trulyin your heart mean it you will be forgivin your sins. It’s what the bible teaches us. The last supper they the deciples weren’t with out sin when they took communion it was after when Jesus washed there feet and forgave there sins. Everyone is entitled to there own interpretation who is to say how god speaks to one another and who is right and wrong . I know its not my place if you feel it is yours go a head and say so. Remember you judge one man expect to be judge the same.

Jesus washed their feet before supper, not afterwards.