Receiving Communion while living in grave sin

[steve_b]

I was strictly speaking about telling people they are going to Hell if they die in mortal sin because that is what the church tells us.

It may be true. God gets to decide that though and evangalizing using that line will be fruitless imo.

All I’m saying, I don’t assume or even presume, God will NOT do what He says He will do. Not to mention, it could very clearly lead someone who is already not solid in their thinking, to take a dangerous (i.e. lax) position on mortal sin.

 

[zz912]

Replying respectfully to ZZ912:
I don’t understand what you mean.
We receive the Living Body of Jesus Christ in the Sacrament of the Eucharist.
Thus we receive the strength and grace we need.
I have never thought of Jesus as ‘vulnerable’ in any way, nor in need of our puny efforts to ‘protect’ Him. He is the Almighty God and His love, His strength upholds us.
It is surely a little presumptuous to suggest that anyone genuinely seeking that spiritual food could in any way ‘degrade’ the Blessed Sacrament. It is not up to us to look upon others in judgement. God alone knows each one of us. We are His beloved children.

Was Jesus vulnerable when He was born? Was He in need of Mary and Joseph’s efforts? Yes. Of course, as God, He could have angels come to protect Him, but He put His complete trust into Mary and Joseph.

The same is true of His Body and Blood in the Eucharist. His Body can be received in reverence, or irreverence. Someone could take Him and profane His Body, or throw Him in a dumpster or pig sty. They could blaspheme and use His Body in other horrible ways. And yet He does not defend Himself. He puts His Body COMPLETELY into our care.

And yes, someone in a state of mortal sin degrades or blasphemes against God when they partake of the Eucharist. Anyone genuinely seeking Christ doesn’t partake until they’ve been to Confession. Refusing to go to Confession is not genuinely seeking.

 

[Emily2014]

We seem to have lost sight of the original post concerning two people, their way of life and their wish to continue receiving the Blessed Sacrament. Nobody suggested that they were intending to abuse, defame or damage the Sacred Host in any way. How on earth can a genuine wish to receive Our Blessed Lord in Communion be likened to ‘tossing the Host in a pig bin’ or otherwise treating It with irreverence?
We have no right to judge people as sinners. Only God can do that. Equally we have no right to interfere in the private lives of others and it is only the people concerned who know if they feel able to receive God’s Grace in Holy Communion. Jesus did not ask us to decide who should and who should not receive His Body.

 

[Vico]

We seem to have lost sight of the original post concerning two people, their way of life and their wish to continue receiving the Blessed Sacrament. Nobody suggested that they were intending to abuse, defame or damage the Sacred Host in any way. How on earth can a genuine wish to receive Our Blessed Lord in Communion be likened to ‘tossing the Host in a pig bin’ or otherwise treating It with irreverence?
We have no right to judge people as sinners. Only God can do that. Equally we have no right to interfere in the private lives of others and it is only the people concerned who know if they feel able to receive God’s Grace in Holy Communion. Jesus did not ask us to decide who should and who should not receive His Body.

We do not condemn them to Hell, but we do discern actions that are evil.

Romans 16:17-18
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, to mark them who make dissensions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned, and avoid them.
18 For they that are such, serve not Christ our Lord, but their own belly; and by pleasing speeches and good words, seduce the hearts of the innocent.

II Corinthians 6:17
17 Wherefore, Go out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing:

II Timothy 3:5-6
5 Having an appearance indeed of godliness, but denying the power thereof. Now these avoid.
6 For of these sort are they who creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, who are led away with divers desires:

I John 4:1
4 Dearly beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits if they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 

[Joan_M]

Well, first of all, you didn’t hear the Bishop say this, so it’s possible (a) he was misunderstood, or (b) they heard what they wanted to hear.

But – is it possible that he said she should receive Communion at the wedding? You quote him as saying “it is the only time she will be able to receive the presence of the Lord!” Sounds like he might be saying that she could receive then, but once they start living as man and wife, she won’t be able to because of the invalid marriage.

Just a thought.

That could not be, since they are not getting married in the Catholic Church!

 

[Joy2day]

It still comes around to the Tradition/Scripture and not one but both. God the Father blessed St Peter as mentioned a few times. Jesus Christ gave him the Keys which are deposited in the Church. The Bible doesn’t tell you to make the sign of the Cross along with a host of other aspects of apostolic faith, you have to pay close attention to what they are telling you and especially with confession and prayer. You are practicing keeping your deadly habits or the seven deadly sins in check and by Gods grace, we are all sinners, the idea is to learn how to stop offending God and by His Grace and cooperation with it. Its a matter of submission and many have a problem here valuing their own opinion, like Adam and Eve.

I think it is often the opinion of many practising catholics that they should personally attend Mass and the sacraments and that is why they do - not because anyone told them to as adults.

Of course we protect the Eucharist as much as we can… without murdering those who do not…!! (self control issues).

Years ago (generations ago) the faithful were advised to refrain from multiplying mortal sins, and that appears to be a trap that is being fallen into. No one is capable of saying another person is in mortal sin except God. The best we can say is that it is grave matter. However there are instances where a public disregard of the church’s teachings would constitute a refusal of communion.

Seriously, I think the Church should introduce confessions on Sunday mornings before mass. Saturday afternoon confessions may not be effective if one is going out saturday night and then to mass sunday morning. Its a good idea.

 

[Bookcat]

Seriously, I think the Church should introduce confessions on Sunday mornings before mass. Saturday afternoon confessions may not be effective if one is going out saturday night and then to mass sunday morning. Its a good idea.

In Shrines etc they have confession on even a daily basis.

I would add though: No repentance…no forgiveness. One cannot simply go out Sat. night and sin and confess the next day and intend to do it the next week!

 

[CatholicSooner]

I think it is often the opinion of many practising catholics that they should personally attend Mass and the sacraments and that is why they do - not because anyone told them to as adults.

Of course we protect the Eucharist as much as we can… without murdering those who do not…!! (self control issues).

Years ago (generations ago) the faithful were advised to refrain from multiplying mortal sins, and that appears to be a trap that is being fallen into. No one is capable of saying another person is in mortal sin except God. The best we can say is that it is grave matter. However there are instances where a public disregard of the church’s teachings would constitute a refusal of communion.

Seriously, I think the Church should introduce confessions on Sunday mornings before mass. Saturday afternoon confessions may not be effective if one is going out saturday night and then to mass sunday morning. Its a good idea.

We are having a parish listening session where we as parishoners can give opinions on what our parish is doing well and on what we are not doing well.
One thing I want to bring up is making confession more inviting and more accessible

 

[zz912]

We are having a parish listening session where we as parishoners can give opinions on what our parish is doing well and on what we are not doing well.
One thing I want to bring up is making confession more inviting and more accessible

I offered up the idea to my pastor to have, at least once a month, Confession on a Tuesday or Wednesday evening to make it more accessible to those with work commitments and families.

 

[zz912]

We seem to have lost sight of the original post concerning two people, their way of life and their wish to continue receiving the Blessed Sacrament. Nobody suggested that they were intending to abuse, defame or damage the Sacred Host in any way. How on earth can a genuine wish to receive Our Blessed Lord in Communion be likened to ‘tossing the Host in a pig bin’ or otherwise treating It with irreverence?
We have no right to judge people as sinners. Only God can do that. Equally we have no right to interfere in the private lives of others and it is only the people concerned who know if they feel able to receive God’s Grace in Holy Communion. Jesus did not ask us to decide who should and who should not receive His Body.

Because they are partaking of the Eucharist on THEIR terms, not HIS. This is a BIG problem.

And YES, Jesus DID ask us to decide who should and who should not receive His Body. Those who refuse to obey His commands, who reject the teachings of the Church, we are taught absolutely to prevent them from receiving.

Or do you not care about their souls? Do you wish for them to eat and drink judgment upon themselves???

 

[Emily2014]

ZZ912 - Hello.
As I said, we have veered miles away from the original thread!
With respect, I do not believe that Jesus ever wishes us to decide what is morally right for others. Surely our only concern should be to ensure we each personally try to act in the way we know will please Him, as best we can, without ever presuming to judge what others feel is right for them. He told us to “Love one another as I have loved you…”
God bless you.

 

[zz912]

ZZ912 - Hello.
As I said, we have veered miles away from the original thread!

Good conversations can meander sometimes. I enjoy that aspect of conversations (although sometimes people try to intentionally derail a conversation because they can’t rebut an argument, but that isn’t the case in this conversation). In this case, we’re discussing the underlying issues with whether there must be some repentance before communing with God.

With respect, I do not believe that Jesus ever wishes us to decide what is morally right for others.

Nonsense. Moral right and wrong isn’t up for personal belief. Abortion is wrong. Murder is wrong. Sex outside marriage is wrong. No matter what our feelings are about these sins, they ARE wrong. Period. Our culpability for these sins may be diminished, but the actions are sinful.

Surely our only concern should be to ensure we each personally try to act in the way we know will please Him, as best we can, without ever presuming to judge what others feel is right for them.

Absolutely wrong. One of the seven corporal works of mercy is to admonish the sinner. Another is to instruct the ignorant. If they feel sinful behavior is wrong, it is our duty to instruct them of their error. Allowing them to continue in their sinful ways and erroneous thoughts is the OPPOSITE of love and charity towards them.

He told us to “Love one another as I have loved you…”
God bless you.

And love sometimes involves admonishing the sinner. Love isn’t an emotion. It is an action. We are called to help othes with what is beneficial for their soul. Allowing them to desecrate the Eucharist while they are not in state of grace is the opposite of love.

 

[THP]

I’m curious about the idea of compounding mortal sins. Clearly living in unrepentant mortal sin damns us to Hell. Is the punishment somehow worse if one commits a “worse” mortal sin? ie - the punishment for a married couple using condoms will be Hell, just as the punishment for torturing and murdering a child will also be Hell.

In that context, why does it matter if one who is living in mortal sin also partakes in the Eucharist, either way that person is going to Hell?

 

[CatholicSooner]

I’m curious about the idea of compounding mortal sins. Clearly living in unrepentant mortal sin damns us to Hell. Is the punishment somehow worse if one commits a “worse” mortal sin? ie - the punishment for a married couple using condoms will be Hell, just as the punishment for torturing and murdering a child will also be Hell.

In that context, why does it matter if one who is living in mortal sin also partakes in the Eucharist, either way that person is going to Hell?

If you ever plan to repent, and go to purgatory, I guess you would not have as much clensing to do

 

[steve_b]

I’m curious about the idea of compounding mortal sins. Clearly living in unrepentant mortal sin damns us to Hell. Is the punishment somehow worse if one commits a “worse” mortal sin? ie - the punishment for a married couple using condoms will be Hell, just as the punishment for torturing and murdering a child will also be Hell.

In that context, why does it matter if one who is living in mortal sin also partakes in the Eucharist, either way that person is going to Hell?

One doesn’t have to die in mortal sin.

 

[zz912]

I’m curious about the idea of compounding mortal sins. Clearly living in unrepentant mortal sin damns us to Hell. Is the punishment somehow worse if one commits a “worse” mortal sin? ie - the punishment for a married couple using condoms will be Hell, just as the punishment for torturing and murdering a child will also be Hell.

In that context, why does it matter if one who is living in mortal sin also partakes in the Eucharist, either way that person is going to Hell?

Jesus was pretty adamant about people being called to account for all their actions. He mentions different rewards in Heaven, so I imagine there are different punishments/levels to hell. Maybe it is a greater separation from God as punishment. The catechism speaks about the “principle” punishment of hell is separation from God, but maybe there are secondary punishments.

 

[Vico]

I’m curious about the idea of compounding mortal sins. Clearly living in unrepentant mortal sin damns us to Hell. Is the punishment somehow worse if one commits a “worse” mortal sin? ie - the punishment for a married couple using condoms will be Hell, just as the punishment for torturing and murdering a child will also be Hell.

In that context, why does it matter if one who is living in mortal sin also partakes in the Eucharist, either way that person is going to Hell?

It means youmight not attain final repentance, becoming entrenched through increasing lack of charity.

Matt 6:24 No man can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will sustain the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

 

[larsont7]

In that context, why does it matter if one who is living in mortal sin also partakes in the Eucharist, either way that person is going to Hell?

From a previous poster on CAF:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=589226

The punishment of the dammned is proportioned to each one’s guilt. (Sent. communis.)

The Union Councils of Lyons and of Florence declared that the souls of the damned are punished with unequal punishments. This is probably inteded to assert not merely a specific difference in the punishment of original sin and of personal sins, but also a difference in the degree of punishment for personal sins.

Jesus threatens the inhabitants of Corazain and Bethsaida, on account of their slowness to repent, with a stricter judgement than the dweelers of Tyre and Sidon. The Scribed are to be subject to a particularly strict judgement.

Justice demands that the punishment be commensurate with the guilt.

This was taken from the Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Dr. Ludwig Ott

So I guess from this angle there can be levels of punishment and somewhat speaking of Hell. As to how many variations or levels Hell there are, no one knows, I certainly don’t want to find out on a personal experience.

It makes sense that there would be varying levels of punishment due to our sins, both in Hell and in Purgatory. Though we are not required to believe in private revelations, some saints have had visions of Hell and seen varying punishments of the damned. The fact that the Church teaches differences between venial and mortal sin (as opposed to most Protestant teaching that a sin is a sin is a sin) says something as well.