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benjohnson
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If I could just make out what Luther was pointing to on this table…
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/uploads/pics/zwing.1_04.jpg
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http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/uploads/pics/zwing.1_04.jpg
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Peter_J
Guest
Hi leamar3. Here is, hopefully, a more helpful way of looking at it: intercommunion requires consent from both sides. Thus, for example, I cannot receive in an Orthodox church b/c the Orthodox Church would not approve of it; and I cannot receive in an Anglican church b/c my church (the Catholic Church) would not approve of it.I’m not really sure where to put this question, so I’m going to put it here and hope it’s ok.
If a non-catholic receives communion in a Catholic Church, it’s considered a sin. If a non-catholic receives communion in a non-catholic church it’s not a sin, correct?
Thanks in advance for any (name removed by moderator)ut.
See also:
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House_Harkonnen
Guest
No Lutheran believes in “consubstantiation”.
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Porknpie
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Ben, we could have some serious fun with this but it would get a bit off topic.
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leamar3
Guest
So it’s a sin because if I don’t believe everything that the Church teaches, then I’m not in communion with the Church and can’t receive communion because I’m not a firm believer in Church law or doctrine? Did Jesus put this into place? That is a serious question, I’m not trying to be rude. I’m just trying to learn everything I can before I make the decision to continue with RCIA.
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benjohnson
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Ok my me!Ben, we could have some serious fun with this but it would get a bit off topic.
“Did you put your cup on my table??? You left a moisture ring… you… swine!”
“Look at my flea circus!”
"This is a table. In my language it’s called a ‘Erhöhteplattform-füressenundtrinkenundhaltendinge’ "
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steido01
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andrewstx
Guest
I think it is Luther pointing to one of the Gospels where it says “hoc est enim corpus meum” during a debate with either Calvin or Zwingli.
But not sure so don’t quote me lol.
BTW, spell check does not seem to know what to do with Latin.
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Porknpie
Guest
Leamar,
Scripture says that The Church is the pillar and bulwark of Truth. Tim 3:15.
Jesus put this Church in place, promising to lead it to all truth until the end of time. John 16:13
One has to conform ones thinking and beliefs to the Church that Christ established and that can not error on faith and morals.
Lots of examples where one can want to rebel, thinking one knows better. The evil one plants thoughts in our heads, enticing us to rebel. Did the same with Adam and Eve.
PnP
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benjohnson
Guest
It’s Luther debating Zwingli - in frustration to Zwingli’s obtuse arguments about the eucharist being symbolic, Luther scratched the words “hoc est enim corpus meum” and pointed to them. As Zwingli continued his arguments, Luther would reply by pointing again.
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andrewstx
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At least I was part right there.
It’s Luther debating Zwingli - in frustration to Zwingli’s obtuse arguments about the eucharist being symbolic, Luther scratched the words “hoc est enim corpus meum” and pointed to them. As Zwingli continued his arguments, Luther would reply by pointing again.
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ClaireS
Guest
When a non-Catholic receives communion in his own church or another Protestant church there would be no reason to think he is not sincere or that he is committing sin.I’m not really sure where to put this question, so I’m going to put it here and hope it’s ok.
If a non-catholic receives communion in a Catholic Church, it’s considered a sin. If a non-catholic receives communion in a non-catholic church it’s not a sin, correct?
Thanks in advance for any (name removed by moderator)ut.
A non-Catholic who doesn’t know Church teaching and receives communion in a Catholic church probably isn’t guilty of sin; he isn’t deliberately offending God. Someone who is aware of Church discipline regarding the Eucharist but deliberately ignores it is at least disrespectful and may be guilty of sin.
In the early Church, only those who were baptised and believed ALL the teachings of the apostles were admitted to the Eucharist. Heretics, those who didn’t accept some doctrines, were not. Neither were schismatics, those who had actually separated themselves from the Church and the authority of the bishops. That is what the Catholic church does today in requiring that communicants are united in faith and are under the authority of the bishops in union with the pope who is the successor to St. Peter.
Non-Catholics who believe that the Catholic Eucharist is really the flesh and blood of Jesus should consider if this could be Our Lord’s way of drawing them into the Catholic Church.:
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nhylan
Guest
See where your coming with with this but I’m not sure you can say that everyone who does this is disrespectful. I know of a few musicians working in the Roman Catholic church who are devout Anglicans and Lutherans who are unable to attend Eucharist in their own churches because they work during Mass who view their partaking of communion in Roman Catholic churches as a matter of personal salvation (receiving the real presence of Christ/a Christ instituted Sacrament). An anecdote yes, but one with important meaning meaning for both the church and the receivers.
Someone who is aware of Church discipline regarding the Eucharist but deliberately ignores it is at least disrespectful and may be guilty of sin.
.:
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ClaireS
Guest
The Catholic church makes provision for this. NonCatholics who have a Catholic faith in this sacrament, who feel a need for it, and who are unable to receive in their own church can ask the pastor for a dispensation to receive communion at Mass. Perhaps the musicians you mention are in this situation. In my parish there was an Episcopalian woman who used to come to daily Mass and received communion.
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Novocastrian
Guest
Just curious. Would an orthodox Anglican (whatever that might mean!), under similar circumstances (i.e. a chat with your pastor) be allowed to commune?And the reverse.
Jon
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nhylan
Guest
There are absolutely circumstances where an Anglican, with a catholic understanding of the sacrament (which is most of them) would be able to receive the Eucharist in a Roman Catholic Church. The example above of Anglican musicians earlier in the thread, who cannot attend Holy Eucharist at a CoE or other Anglican church. Another common example is multi-faith families where one parent is Anglican, the other is Roman Catholic. I think the diocese of New York (can’t remember for sure) used a particular example of the first communion of a child in a multi-faith family where the devout Anglican parent felt that he or she needed to recieve communion at their child’s first communion. A strong desire indeed!
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steido01
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Maybe Jon has seen differently, but generally, yes. If someone believes in the Real Presence and knows enough to ask the pastor beforehand, chances are they will be permitted after examination by the pastor. These sorts of people are usually educated enough to understand that, when the option is available, they should commune in their own church. These are individual pastoral discretions and are certainly not the norm, however.
This has been my personal experience as an LCMSer while travelling to areas that only have other Lutheran Synods (WELS, ELS, Confessional ELCA). In one instance, where no Lutheran churches were available, I was permitted to Roman Catholic communion after speaking with the priest, who consulted with his bishop (though I ended up not communing due to a totally unrelated reason). Generally, Eucharistic hospitality in Lutheran churches generally seems to extend to those who profess the Real Presence but are unable to receive in their own church for whatever reason, generally (final decision resting with the pastor, of course). My anecdotal experience says that rest of the Western Church does as well.
Side note- aren’t all of these stories going to be anecdotal since we should, under normal circumstances, commune in our own churches?
Steido’s answer is essentially the one I would give. However, “close” communion allows for some local autonomy in these matters. That parish autonomy can work for a Anglican, or against, depending on the view of the pastor and elders. Some would say our parish is rather “liberal” in our willingness to permit someone in a circumstance such as you offer to commune.
Jon
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EvangelCatholic
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Lutherans are in full-communion with the Anglican/ Episcopal Church. You are welcome to partake of holy Communion without consulting with the pastor/ priest.
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