Receiving Communion?

[benjohnson]

Anglican went up to an Eastern Orthodox priest and said “My bishop said that you have no right to deny me communion!”

What is rather sad about that encounter is that the EO are generally quite hospitable to us Lutherans - if one approaches with humility, thankfulness and willingness to abide by any decision.

 

[RomansFiveEight]

I have a bit of a question regarding the grape juice comments. Let’s set aside, for a moment, the theology surrounding transubstantiation, the validity of clergy, apostolic succession, et cetera. Focusing on the issue of grape juice used in (some) protestant churches. I found that as an odd criticism.

And here’s why. How can one with a belief in transubstantiation, believing in the powerful mystery that is the very Body and Blood of Jesus Christ being transformed from the bread and wine; believe that that power is suddenly unable to do the same with unfermented wine? I believe we could get quite pedantic. Does the wine contain the same amount of ethanol (the correct term for what is in “alcoholic” beverages) as the wine Jesus served? Are the grapes from the same vine? It can get a little pedantic.

To play my own devils advocate, what stops us from using apple juice and animal crackers? But as I’m generally not fond of slippery slope arguments; I’ll just come back to my original point. I certainly see no flaw in communion with wine. But I am a bit intrigued by the grape juice, of all things, being singled out as an issue with communion in (some) protestant churches.

I’ll leave with my favorite communion scripture. Only because it leaves a painful pit in my stomach to read it; knowing that no matter what our various traditions say, none of us are truly worthy of the sacrifice Jesus became for us, nor the means in which we celebrate or share in that sacrifice. But through Grace, those means are made available to us. A fact I hope we all remember each time we are offered the bread and “fermented or unfermented juice of a grape”. We certainly may have different understandings of what communion is, but nonetheless, we should be reminded each time we celebrate it, that we are not in fact, worthy to receive it aside from the Grace Jesus Christ has extended.

26 Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. 27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.

So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.” 28 But no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him. 29 Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the festival, or to give something to the poor. 30 As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.

 

[Kliska]

I have a bit of a question regarding the grape juice comments. Let’s set aside, for a moment, the theology surrounding transubstantiation, the validity of clergy, apostolic succession, et cetera. Focusing on the issue of grape juice used in (some) protestant churches. I found that as an odd criticism.

And here’s why. How can one with a belief in transubstantiation, believing in the powerful mystery that is the very Body and Blood of Jesus Christ being transformed from the bread and wine; believe that that power is suddenly unable to do the same with unfermented wine? I believe we could get quite pedantic. Does the wine contain the same amount of ethanol (the correct term for what is in “alcoholic” beverages) as the wine Jesus served? Are the grapes from the same vine? It can get a little pedantic.

To play my own devils advocate, what stops us from using apple juice and animal crackers? But as I’m generally not fond of slippery slope arguments; I’ll just come back to my original point. I certainly see no flaw in communion with wine. But I am a bit intrigued by the grape juice, of all things, being singled out as an issue with communion in (some) protestant churches.

I’ll leave with my favorite communion scripture. Only because it leaves a painful pit in my stomach to read it; knowing that no matter what our various traditions say, none of us are truly worthy of the sacrifice Jesus became for us, nor the means in which we celebrate or share in that sacrifice. But through Grace, those means are made available to us. A fact I hope we all remember each time we are offered the bread and “fermented or unfermented juice of a grape”. We certainly may have different understandings of what communion is, but nonetheless, we should be reminded each time we celebrate it, that we are not in fact, worthy to receive it aside from the Grace Jesus Christ has extended.

We have to remember that to Catholics in particular we are not just talking about powerful and efficacious symbols or mysteries, but rather specific sacraments that have to have specific components. So, in effect, as Jesus had to be fully human in the incarnation, the sacraments must contain or “be” certain things to be efficacious in their eyes.

This is indeed a difference between wine and grape juice; I can show that easily by who can buy it. A child can buy and consume grape juice but it takes someone over 21 to buy and consume wine (here in the USA). Why? Because they are categorically different. If we read the descriptions of wine and is meaning in Jewish thought and practice, there is a definite reason (even from this protestant’s position) that wine and not grape juice is the proper element. But again, from a Catholic perspective it is a proper and straightforward component of a specific sacrament that has to be the way it is in order to be valid… and licit.